New Creationist theory on how life spread out after the flood.

[nuttypiglet]

Yet many of the flood stories are quite different.

Yes, they do all share the fact that they are physically impossible and that all life would have died out on the surface of the Earth after the fact. But that is about it.

Why impossible? If I told you 100 years ago that the oxygen concentration in air was much higher in the days before Noah, you would have said impossible to that too.

 

[lasthero]

I can even find a creationist source to back me up on this one.

There Was No Rain Before the Flood - Answers in Genesis

 

[Loudmouth]

No they don't. They're all the same story told from different perspectives.

They are different stories. For example, some myths have a couple walking to the top of a hill and watching all the land below them engulfed in a flood. There is no ark or anything resembling the Noah myth.

The fact that multiple civilizations have records of a great flood strengthens the case for the biblical account of Noah.

Different flood stories strengthens the case that mutliple local floods have occurred.

 

[Loudmouth]

Why impossible? If I told you 100 years ago that the oxygen concentration in air was much higher in the days before Noah, you would have said impossible to that too.

So what was the oxygen concentration 4,000 years ago?

 

[Loudmouth]

Of course you have listed a tiny fraction of the countries that have a flood account. To name another tiny fraction in addition, China, Babylonia, Wales, Russia, India, America, Hawaii, Scandinavia, Sumatra, Peru, and Polynesia.

So how do those stories compare?

"The other version (mainly told in Oraibi) has it Tewa destroyed the Third World in a great flood. Before the destruction, Spider Grandmother sealed the more righteous people into hollow reeds which were used as boats. Upon arriving on a small piece of dry land, the people saw nothing around them but more water, even after planting a large bamboo shoot, climbing to the top, and looking about. Spider Woman then told the people to make boats out of more reeds, and using island "stepping-stones" along the way, the people sailed east until they eventually arrived on the mountainous coasts of the Fourth World."
Hopi mythology - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

That's the Hopi flood story, and it is nothing like the Noah story.

 

[Mr Strawberry]

We live on a planet that has rain NOW. I can see that you have never read the Bible, because you would otherwise know that it had never rained until the flood.

That's something of a problem for the water cycle.

 

[lasthero]

That's something of a problem for the water cycle.

It doesn't even matter - he's wrong at the most basic level. The thing about it raining before the Flood is a common misconception of people who, ironically enough, haven't actually read the story. It says nothing of the kind.

 

[LastSeven]

That's the Hopi flood story, and it is nothing like the Noah story.

Obviously as civilizations record and relay these events they are going to tell the stories not only in a way that makes sense to their own people but also glorifies their own people. They will insert their own people into the story and include aspects of their own lives to make the stories more relatable. None of that changes the fact that the basis of each of these stories is a world wide flood that wiped out most of humanity.

 

[Doveaman]

No, they can test the apparatus and the results for accuracy all on their own.

He has to blindly rely on your apparatus and the method and rules you provide for testing, and even then he will only be experiencing the effects of the sun (photons).

You experience the effects of God every day (the universe), but you are still a blind atheist.

How will the blind man know the sun is the source of the photons? Is it because you say so?

Of course not, you have a dogma to protect so you have to deny the obvious. How do blind people read without the use of sight?

You are creating a strawman.

The question is not about blind people reading, it’s about convincing a blind man the sun exists. How do you go about doing that?

Unlike God, I can present objective evidence that radiowaves and x-rays exist even though we can't see them. So where is the empirical evidence for God?

Enough with the strawmen!

The blind man has never seen the sun, how will you convince the blind man the sun exists other than by the mere effects of photons, sound, bumps and pixels?

 

[Loudmouth]

Obviously as civilizations record and relay these events they are going to tell the stories not only in a way that makes sense to their own people but also glorifies their own people. They will insert their own people into the story and include aspects of their own lives to make the stories more relatable.

Then the Noah story is just a retelling of a mundane local flood that was retold in a way that made it grander while glorifying their own people.

 

[keith99]

They are different stories. For example, some myths have a couple walking to the top of a hill and watching all the land below them engulfed in a flood. There is no ark or anything resembling the Noah myth.



Different flood stories strengthens the case that mutliple local floods have occurred.

That other myths do not mention Noah is not a problem when it comes to supporting a global flood.

It is a HUGE problem for reading the Noah myth in the manner most literalists read it as everyone else was supposed to have died.

I'm not that well versed on other myths. It seems to me that what has to remain for them to support each other by supporting one global flood would be the approximate time of the flood and a similar duration of the rain and the time for the waters to recede.

 

[Loudmouth]

He has to blindly rely on your apparatus . . .

No, he doesn't. A blind person can check all of the workings of the apparatus and verify for themselves that it would detect a sun if there really was one. This is true of ALL scientific equipment.

You experience the effects of God every day (the universe), but you are still a blind atheist.

Please cite these measureable effects, and show that they were caused by God.

How will the blind man know the sun is the source of the photons?

Because the telescope records photons when pointed at the Sun.

Is it because you say so?

No, it is the result of a scientific experiment that can be run by anyone and verified by anyone.

The question is not about blind people reading, it’s about convincing a blind man the sun exists.

Both are solved by the same solution.

The blind man has never seen the sun,

You have never seen a radiowave, and yet you can use scientific experiments that are testable, repeatable, and verifiable to detect radiowaves. There is no reason why pixels on the screen can not be made for touch instead of sight.

how will you convince the blind man the sun exists other than by the mere effects of photons, sound, bumps and pixels?

Do you know what sight is? Sight is the effect of photons striking your retina.

 

[lasthero]

Obviously as civilizations record and relay these events they are going to tell the stories not only in a way that makes sense to their own people but also glorifies their own people. They will insert their own people into the story and include aspects of their own lives to make the stories more relatable. None of that changes the fact that the basis of each of these stories is a world wide flood that wiped out most of humanity.

How would they even know it was worldwide?

 

[EternalDragon]

How would they even know it was worldwide?

If it was true all generations would know it from stories told by Noah and his family. Of course some of the details might have gotten blurred along the line if it was told orally.

 

[CabVet]

If it was true all generations would know it from stories told by Noah and his family. Of course some of the details might have gotten blurred along the line if it was told orally.

So it was not true then since most cultures don't know about it.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Why impossible? If I told you 100 years ago that the oxygen concentration in air was much higher in the days before Noah, you would have said impossible to that too.

No, only 4,500 years ago the oxygen content of the air was the same as now.

It was higher over a hundred million years ago.

Remember you cannot make any scientific claims without scientific evidence. And all of the scientific evidence supports evolution.

Second, there are several reasons why all life would have died. There was no food on the surface of the Earth. There were too many carnivores after the flood. There was not enough genetic diversity for life to continue.


Of course the Ark myth is simply a children's bedtime story. Remember that all of the millions and millions of animals on the Ark were supposed to be supplied air through one window a foot and a half square. That alone should tell you that the story is a fairy tale.

 

[nuttypiglet]

So what was the oxygen concentration 4,000 years ago?

much higher than it is now. That's why if you was to create dinosaurs in the jurassic movie fashion today, the dinosaurs would simply suffocate.

 

[nuttypiglet]

So how do those stories compare?

"The other version (mainly told in Oraibi) has it Tewa destroyed the Third World in a great flood. Before the destruction, Spider Grandmother sealed the more righteous people into hollow reeds which were used as boats. Upon arriving on a small piece of dry land, the people saw nothing around them but more water, even after planting a large bamboo shoot, climbing to the top, and looking about. Spider Woman then told the people to make boats out of more reeds, and using island "stepping-stones" along the way, the people sailed east until they eventually arrived on the mountainous coasts of the Fourth World."
Hopi mythology - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

That's the Hopi flood story, and it is nothing like the Noah story.

Well that's because the Noah account is the right one. Just as religion is right over evolution. Then there are the silly claims that Noah's ship wouldn't have survived because it was too big.

 

[nuttypiglet]

A) It did rain before the Flood. The Bible never says that it never rained before the Flood. All it says is that, in the beginning, God watered the Earth with a mist. He did this once. There's nothing to suggest he did this all the time, or that it never rained.

You need to read your Bible more.

B) Even if hadn't, this is irrelevant. We're clearly talking about civilizations that arose AFTER the Flood, because we wouldn't know much about a civilization that lived before.

Ancient civilizations all have one thing in common, they seemed to disappear without a trace apart from some ruins. The Sphinx in Egypt shows signs around the base of massive water erosion, yet some scientists still don't accept the evidence. If Egyptians of today were direct ancestors of the Ancient Egyptians, they would know what the pyramids were built for. They haven't got a clue. The inhabitants with advanced knowledge to build those civilizations were all wiped out by God, with a flood.

 

[TLK Valentine]

How would they even know it was worldwide?

They didn't know it, they said it.

On a lighter note, any flood looks global when you're in the middle of it.