Hyper-Grace ??????????

[JimB]

Have you noticed the new smear word. It’s the prefix “hyper.” Just put “hyper” in front of a word and you instantly demean it. Like hyper-faith (I know, I know, I’ve been guilty), hyper-Calvinist, hyper-Arminian, hyper-emotional, hyper-legalism, hyper-religious, hyper-whatever. Well, there’s a new one—hyper-grace. I just read an article from Charisma Magazine e:newsletter: “Hypergrace Movement Leaves Follower Questioning God’s Existence” (article here). It’s as if accepting, living, and sharing grace is the first step toward unbelief. Actually, I thought it was the other way around. I thought where sin increased, grace abounded more. Silly me.

So, do you think it is possible to overdo the message of grace? If so, how?

 

[hislegacy]

If it results in you neglecting holiness or sanctification. It is not Grace

 

[JimB]

Yes. Grace freed us from the power of sin in our lives. Romans 6.15-19 says “Well then, since God’s grace has set us free from the law, does that mean we can go on sinning? Of course not! Don’t you realize that you become the slave of whatever you choose to obey? You can be a slave to sin, which leads to death, or you can choose to obey God, which leads to righteous living. Thank God! Once you were slaves of sin, but now you wholeheartedly obey this teaching we have given you. Now you are free from your slavery to sin, and you have become slaves to righteous living. Because of the weakness of your human nature, I am using the illustration of slavery to help you understand all this. Previously, you let yourselves be slaves to impurity and lawlessness, which led ever deeper into sin. Now you must give yourselves to be slaves to righteous living so that you will become holy.”

But, IMO, this is not something we can do within ourselves, it is the grace of God working in us both to will and do his good pleasure.

 

[OldDogDiver]

Hyper grace - greasy grace - is a deadly heresy. I just read Steve Hill's "Spiritual Avalanche". Should be required reading for all Christians.

I can't post links because of my number of posts (I have 45 need 50 to post a link)...........just search Amazon....Spiritual Avalanche to find the book.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Radical grace is when no limits are put on recieving the grace of God . even death .

 

[Tobias]

If it results in you neglecting holiness or sanctification. It is not Grace

But that all depends upon how you define holiness and sanctification. To some, holiness is a list of rules that must be followed before you can expect God to sanctify you.

Which in that case, any form of Grace that negates their doctrine of Works is greasy.

 

[Tobias]

Have you noticed the new smear word. It’s the prefix “hyper.” Just put “hyper” in front of a word and you instantly demean it. Like hyper-faith (I know, I know, I’ve been guilty), hyper-Calvinist, hyper-Arminian, hyper-emotional, hyper-legalism, hyper-religious, hyper-whatever. Well, there’s a new one—hyper-grace. I just read an article from Charisma Magazine e:newsletter: “Hypergrace Movement Leaves Follower Questioning God’s Existence” (article here). It’s as if accepting, living, and sharing grace is the first step toward unbelief. Actually, I thought it was the other way around. I thought where sin increased, grace abounded more. Silly me.

So, do you think it is possible to overdo the message of grace? If so, how?

My mind immediately goes to "hyper-space" and then of course a "hyper-space window" which in Sci-fi is necessary for space ships to travel between the stars. Which in this case makes "hyper" a good thing.



Then again, the Bible does tell us that:

Matthew 18:19
“Again I say to you, that if two of you agree on earth about anything that they may ask, it shall be done for them by My Father who is in heaven.

Maybe it's wrong for us to ever do space travel, as the condition of this promise is that any two of us "on Earth" must agree?

 

[justhappeneduponthis]

There's not one thing you can do to make God love you more. I've heard Reformers say this as if it were a comfort. But it does not line up with the experience of a child who loves his Dad and desires to please him. Dad's smile arising from obedience is a much desired objective. Dad's frown brings a renewed compulsion to do better next time. This is the love response and it drives holiness and sanctification (2 Corinthians 7: 1)

 

[MikeBigg]

There's not one thing you can do to make God love you more. I've heard Reformers say this as if it were a comfort. But it does not line up with the experience of a child who loves his Dad and desires to please him. Dad's smile arising from obedience is a much desired objective. Dad's frown brings a renewed compulsion to do better next time. This is the love response and it drives holiness and sanctification (2 Corinthians 7: 1)

But that dad doesn't love more because he smiled, nor love any less because he frowned - though the child may feel more loved when seeing the smile.

Mike

 

[intojoy]

No it's not possible.

 

[MikeBigg]

So, do you think it is possible to overdo the message of grace? If so, how?

I don't think so. Its like trying to exaggerate how big the solar system is.

Here's 2 side to the debate:

Confronting the Error of Hyper-Grace

“Confronting the Error of Hyper-Grace” – a response to Michael Brown – Escape to Reality

I must say I do like some of what the second article says. For example ...

One of the most stunning claims in the Bible comes from Romans 5:8: “But God demonstrates his own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.” If God loved us while we were still sinners, he surely loves us now. We don’t repent and confess or do anything to merit God’s love but because we are loved. The love of God is the foundation of all we are and do.​

Mike

 

[The Unforgettable Fire]

Have you noticed the new smear word. It's the prefix "hyper." Just put "hyper" in front of a word and you instantly demean it. Like hyper-faith (I know, I know, I've been guilty), hyper-Calvinist, hyper-Arminian, hyper-emotional, hyper-legalism, hyper-religious, hyper-whatever. Well, there's a new one--hyper-grace. I just read an article from Charisma Magazine e:newsletter: "Hypergrace Movement Leaves Follower Questioning God's Existence" (article here). It's as if accepting, living, and sharing grace is the first step toward unbelief. Actually, I thought it was the other way around. I thought where sin increased, grace abounded more. Silly me.

So, do you think it is possible to overdo the message of grace? If so, how?

I grew up Pentecostal which taught and still teaches that repentance is a prerequisite for getting and maintaining salvation and I'll be honest, I came close to committing suicide about 15 years ago because of this belief.

I was in the throws of an affair with a married woman and all I heard from the pentecostal AG church was rejection; that unless you repent God won't accept you. One day I was in the middle of the act of adultery, having given up completely on my Christianity feeling I was lost, and looking at the cross necklace I had bought the woman I was with that was around her neck when I heard an almost audible voice in my ear say "it's paid for."

I had absolutely no plans of ending the affair before that moment. In fact, I told myself, oh well, since I am lost I might as well enjoy it. But that voice of unconditional love and grace found me...wounded me with an unfathomable kindness and unmerited favor toward me that I had been blind to because of the man made religion and doctrine I had been listening to.


That kind of love, that loves me unconditionally and completely, regardless of what state I am in, captured my heart, and I have never been able to escape it because where sin abounds, grace abounds all the more. It has taken me many years to begin to come around to more fully accept the message that the Gospel message of Jesus Christ is "it's paid for."


When I feel His presence I understand why the Apostles and so many Christians were ready and even eager to die for their faith...such incredible, complete and final love that has no end and no boundaries.

All I see when I read the Bible now is grace. This is probably why I enjoy reformed churches and doctrine so much.


Where can I go from Your Spirit?
Or where can I flee from Your presence?
If I ascend into heaven, You are there;
If I make my bed in hell, behold, You are there.
If I take the wings of the morning,
And dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea,
Even there Your hand shall lead me,
And Your right hand shall hold me.
If I say, "Surely the darkness shall fall on me,"
Even the night shall be light about me;
Indeed, the darkness shall not hide from You,
But the night shines as the day;
The darkness and the light are both alike to You. ~ Psalms 7-12



And the gift is not like that which came through the one who sinned. For the judgment which came from one offense resulted in condemnation, but the free gift which came from many offenses resulted in justification. For if by the one man's offense death reigned through the one, much more those who receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ. ~ Romans 5:16-17

 

[justhappeneduponthis]

I see your point about feelings MikeBigg. I am just concerned that the attitude of "once in the boat and coasting now freely" contributes to slippery grace and an excusing away of responsibility. It is just as out of kilter as the deliverance ministry that attributes everything to the devil and never pins the believer down to his own responsibility to make important corrections through obedience and searchings in prayer.

 

[MikeBigg]

I hear what you're saying - grace should never be an excuse for bad living, but on the other hand feelings of guilt or condemnation are dangerous, too.

Nothing can separate us from His love. His sacrifice was sufficient for all sins.

I often use 1 John 1: 8-9:

If we say we have no sin we decieve ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins God is faithful and just to forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.​

I'm not sure where that fits in with the hyper-grace crowd, though.

 

[justhappeneduponthis]

Holiness teaching can be as tenuous and up and down as a teeter-totter ride. Agreed. There is much unnecessary guilt going around and the devil contributes into this condemnation stew. Believers must get a firm fix on the difference between sin and temptation. Jesus was tempted on all points but without sin. Thoughts crossed His path that would shock us. But He cast them off and told the devil repeatedly to take a hike...and He , Jesus, is the One who ever lives to make intercession for us. Winning formula, No?

 

[MikeBigg]

Winning formula, No?

Indeed! What a God. What a saviour.

 

[TasManOfGod]

Isn't it amazing Jim that the Father had grace to overcome our sicknesses by putting the suffering on Jesus?

 

[Messy]

I prefer too much grace over too much legalism.

 

[JimB]

I prefer too much grace over too much legalism.

.

 

[JimB]

Isn't it amazing Jim that the Father had grace to overcome our sicknesses by putting the suffering on Jesus?

If you say so, Tas. But there's a lot more to Christianity than (temporary) physical healing.