An atheists world

[AV1611VET]

How arrogant one must be to think that their belief in the confected is somehow more significant, more 'real' than anyone else's might have been in the past.

Ya ... how arrogant.

If I can't defend my Saviour without being called "arrogant," then so be it.

Consider me arrogant.

I'd rather be arrogant than atheist.

what does your religion say about pride again.....?

Proverbs 16:18 Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall.

Couldn't post that yourself, could you?

 

[bhsmte]

I don't get it. God does not control your actions.

If he already knows what is going to happen ahead of time, how does one have control over their actions?

If God created man as you believe, he created each man in a way in which he already knows ahead of time what they are going to do (sort of like being programmed).

You can't state that God created each man and already knows what they will do before it happens and then also claim each person has control of their actions. If that were the case, then God would not know ahead of time what each person would do.

 

[Lethe]

If he already knows what is going to happen ahead of time, how does one have control over their actions?

This demands an answer.

 

[biggles53]

If I can't defend my Saviour without being called "arrogant," then so be it.

Save the pathetic martyrdom........you are doing no more than the believers in any god have done before you...

Consider me arrogant

.

Redundant.......that's already been well established....

I'd rather be arrogant than atheist.

Clearly......

Proverbs 16:18 Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall.

Couldn't post that yourself, could you?

Yes.....

 

[bhsmte]

God's obligation ended when He told Adam not to partake of the forbidden fruit.

Nope, sorry.

If God created man and knew they were flawed and they would sin, then he is responsible for their actions, because he intentionally made man to sin. He shouldn't be surprised or disappointed at his flawed creation.

Sort of like when a company knowingly makes a flawed product and they sell it to the public. It isn't the public that is accountable for the product they have that has failed, it is the company that made the flawed product.

This is simple logic and it really isn't that difficult.

 

[AV1611VET]

This demands an answer.

You can't do that!

If you do, and someone answers, someone else might assume you have control over that person; in which case, everything that person does will be your fault!

 

[AV1611VET]

Save the pathetic martyrdom.

That's your job.

 

[bhsmte]

Completely wrong.

Life is not a movie already scripted out. We are not following a script. God is not prompting our actions. We are not actors reading lines.

Go and do something you would not normally do. Like hop up and down and yodel. There, you just made a free will choice. No one but yourself made you do that.

But, if God already knew you were going to hop up and down, he programmed you to do so and you don't have free choice.

 

[And-U-Say]

No. He is saying if a god wanted to create intelligent life like himself for some companionship, that all have complete free will, he would have had to know how it starts, how it goes along and how it ends. (I would think the ending is like the perfect ending to the perfect movie). And he did it anyhow bearing in mind that any interference to be a puppet master would negate free will. Sort of like the butterfly effect.

We just can't see the ending yet.

Both he and you are missing his own point. By watching the Jeopardy episode so many times and knowing what will happen, that equates to having no free will as to what happens. The players have free will, but the person watching does not.

 

[bhsmte]

Or like a parent that refuses to take his children to church, because they don't believe and saying now be good children.

Are you actually stating a child can't turn out to be a good person without going to church?

 

[Split Rock]

You had a separate world from the real one to fool satan.

I have no idea where you are going... do you? God could have put Lucifer anywhere. He could have put him on Neptune so he could carry a sign saying "Don't be like me, Don't Rebel." (for AVET) He could have shoved him into a black hole. Instead, he put him with us.

 

[bhsmte]

You can't do that!

If you do, and someone answers, someone else might assume you have control over that person; in which case, everything that person does will be your fault!

Very weak evasion.

 

[And-U-Say]

Adam and Eves sin is the cause, not God. Your question is rather, why doesn't God stop the suffering?

If everyone turned to God on the entire Earth and followed His word, I would bet all suffering of any kind would cease.

Which god should they "turn" to? How would they decode which god to turn to? What method would they use to make this decision? And who would interpret what this god wants? How would large numbers of people come to an agreement over what this god wants?

Individuals within a single church can't agree on what god wants, how does the whole world do this? Sounds like all you are really suggesting is a recipe for war and destruction as people battle it out ot determine what god wants.

 

[AV1611VET]

Nope, sorry.

Yup, not sorry.

If God created man and knew they were flawed and they would sin, then he is responsible for their actions, because he intentionally made man to sin.

And what if God knew they weren't flawed?

He shouldn't be surprised or disappointed at his flawed creation.

God has never been taken by surprise, nor will He.

Sort of like when a company knowingly makes a flawed product and they sell it to the public.

Your logic is flawed.

It isn't the public that is accountable for the product they have that has failed, it is the company that made the flawed product.

Okay, counsellor -- we don't need a corporate lawyer.

This is simple logic and it really isn't that difficult.

So I notice.

 

[CabVet]

Or like a parent that refuses to take his children to church, because they don't believe and saying now be good children.

So, only 20% of the children in this planet are "good"? That is a good one.

 

[AV1611VET]

Very weak evasion.

... You sweet talker, you!

 

[bhsmte]

Yup, not sorry.

And what if God knew they weren't flawed?

God has never been taken by surprise, nor will He.

Your logic is flawed.

Okay, counsellor -- we don't need a corporate lawyer.

Especially one who's ranting & raving and thinks like a Rabshakeh or Diocletian.

So I notice.

If God knew man wasn't flawed, then he is not omnipotent, because he was wrong, man is flawed.

 

[bhsmte]

... You sweet talker, you!

it is, what it is.

 

[AV1611VET]

If God knew man wasn't flawed, then he is not omnipotent, because he was wrong, man is flawed.

Wrong verb.

Man became flawed.

God is omnipotent.

 

[CabVet]

If God knew man wasn't flawed, then he is not omnipotent, because he was wrong, man is flawed.

Now that is a real dichotomy. They say God is perfect and cannot be wrong. They also say God sees the past, present and future. So, in this case God either didn't see the future (which makes him not omniscient) and was wrong, or saw the future and let it happen anyways.