The books of Hebrews and Revelation prove the unchangeableness of God's Holy Law. (2)

[Leuko Petra]

The 'Investigative Judgment'? Sure we can consider this from the Scripture [and see the various phases of "the Judgment", this being one portion of it], we can begin with Genesis with Adam/Eve..., then unto their children - Cain and Abel, then unto the Flood in the days of Noe, then unto the Tower of Babel, then unto Job, then unto Sodom and Gomorrah in the days of Abraham, then unto the children of Israel in the days of Moses, then we can leap forward past several others for brevity's sake, and head right to the time of Jerusalem in the days of Jesus Christ, and in that which He [Jesus] taught, and forward more still unto the Apostles after Him [Jesus] and finally unto the Revelation and see it in every such place. For in Genesis we see the 'seed' of it, which is carried throughout, and in fact in Genesis, we see the 'seed' of every single Seventh Day Adventist position. Then we can consider the Sanctuary itself, its purposes:

Thy way, O God, [is] in the sanctuary: who [is so] great a God as [our] God? Psalms 77:13

 

[Keachian]

The 'Investigative Judgment'? Sure we can consider this from the Scripture [and see the various phases of "the Judgment", this being one portion of it], we can begin with Genesis with Adam/Eve..., then unto their children - Cain and Abel, then unto the Flood in the days of Noe, then unto the Tower of Babel, then unto Job, then unto Sodom and Gomorrah in the days of Abraham, then unto the children of Israel in the days of Moses, then we can leap forward past several others for brevity's sake, and head right to the time of Jerusalem in the days of Jesus Christ, and in that which He [Jesus] taught, and forward more still unto the Apostles after Him [Jesus] and finally unto the Revelation and see it in every such place. For in Genesis we see the 'seed' of it, which is carried throughout, and in fact in Genesis, we see the 'seed' of every single Seventh Day Adventist position. Then we can consider the Sanctuary itself, its purposes:

Thy way, O God, [is] in the sanctuary: who [is so] great a God as [our] God? Psalms 77:13

Well that was a whole lot of hot air, do you want to give us some substance to anything you are saying and no your "interpreting scripture with scripture" thing doesn't cut it. All you do is drag two verses kicking and screaming from their contexts and ram them together until they're no longer recognisable. Your normal proof by verbosity also doesn't cut it.

 

[from scratch]

The 'Investigative Judgment'? Sure we can consider this from the Scripture [and see the various phases of "the Judgment", this being one portion of it], we can begin with Genesis with Adam/Eve..., then unto their children - Cain and Abel, then unto the Flood in the days of Noe, then unto the Tower of Babel, then unto Job, then unto Sodom and Gomorrah in the days of Abraham, then unto the children of Israel in the days of Moses, then we can leap forward past several others for brevity's sake, and head right to the time of Jerusalem in the days of Jesus Christ, and in that which He [Jesus] taught, and forward more still unto the Apostles after Him [Jesus] and finally unto the Revelation and see it in every such place. For in Genesis we see the 'seed' of it, which is carried throughout, and in fact in Genesis, we see the 'seed' of every single Seventh Day Adventist position. Then we can consider the Sanctuary itself, its purposes:

Thy way, O God, [is] in the sanctuary: who [is so] great a God as [our] God? Psalms 77:13

Give us gullible people a break.

 

[from scratch]

That investigative judgement doctrine seems strange, but I guess one has to be a SDA to know what it is about ...

They don't. Just ask them for yourself. Several have. Like usual they talk about everything else.

 

[from scratch]

Nothing snide about it. You asked where the IJ is found, and I told you it's in the sanctuary. Last I checked that's in the bible.



I guess it's a good thing I haven't dispensed with Jesus Christ or His word.

Well you say it is in the Bible but seem to refuse to provide such a reference. Why? Don't you know or are you just trying to take up our time searching for something that doesn't exist?

 

[MoreCoffee]

They don't. Just ask them for yourself. Several have. Like usual they talk about everything else.

Well, the best construction I can make of it is that Jesus is supposed to be in a heavenly temple going through the books to see what everybody has done and if they did naughty stuff they get in trouble and if they did nice stuff they get some kind of salvation but it is all rather unclear about what are the deciding factors in one's salvation.

The Seventh Day Adventist fundamental beliefs web page has these things in it:

• 13. Remnant and Its Mission:
  The universal church is composed of all who truly believe in Christ, but in the last days, a time of widespread apostasy, a remnant has been called out to keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus. This remnant announces the arrival of the judgment hour, proclaims salvation through Christ, and heralds the approach of His second advent. This proclamation is symbolized by the three angels of Revelation 14; it coincides with the work of judgment in heaven and results in a work of repentance and reform on earth. Every believer is called to have a personal part in this worldwide witness. (Rev. 12:17; 14:6-12; 18:1-4; 2 Cor. 5:10; Jude 3, 14; 1 Peter 1:16-19; 2 Peter 3:10-14; Rev. 21:1-14.)
• 19. Law of God:
  The great principles of God's law are embodied in the Ten Commandments and exemplified in the life of Christ. They express God's love, will, and purposes concerning human conduct and relationships and are binding upon all people in every age. These precepts are the basis of God's covenant with His people and the standard in God's judgment. Through the agency of the Holy Spirit they point out sin and awaken a sense of need for a Saviour. Salvation is all of grace and not of works, but its fruitage is obedience to the Commandments. This obedience develops Christian character and results in a sense of well-being. It is an evidence of our love for the Lord and our concern for our fellow men. The obedience of faith demonstrates the power of Christ to transform lives, and therefore strengthens Christian witness. (Ex. 20:1-17; Ps. 40:7, 8; Matt. 22:36-40; Deut. 28:1-14; Matt. 5:17-20; Heb. 8:8-10; John 15:7-10; Eph. 2:8-10; 1 John 5:3; Rom. 8:3, 4; Ps. 19:7-14.)
• 24. Christ's Ministry in the Heavenly Sanctuary:
  There is a sanctuary in heaven, the true tabernacle which the Lord set up and not man. In it Christ ministers on our behalf, making available to believers the benefits of His atoning sacrifice offered once for all on the cross. He was inaugurated as our great High Priest and began His intercessory ministry at the time of His ascension. In 1844, at the end of the prophetic period of 2300 days, He entered the second and last phase of His atoning ministry. It is a work of investigative judgment which is part of the ultimate disposition of all sin, typified by the cleansing of the ancient Hebrew sanctuary on the Day of Atonement. In that typical service the sanctuary was cleansed with the blood of animal sacrifices, but the heavenly things are purified with the perfect sacrifice of the blood of Jesus. The investigative judgment reveals to heavenly intelligences who among the dead are asleep in Christ and therefore, in Him, are deemed worthy to have part in the first resurrection. It also makes manifest who among the living are abiding in Christ, keeping the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus, and in Him, therefore, are ready for translation into His everlasting kingdom. This judgment vindicates the justice of God in saving those who believe in Jesus. It declares that those who have remained loyal to God shall receive the kingdom. The completion of this ministry of Christ will mark the close of human probation before the Second Advent. (Heb. 8:1-5; 4:14-16; 9:11-28; 10:19-22; 1:3; 2:16, 17; Dan. 7:9-27; 8:13, 14; 9:24-27; Num. 14:34; Eze. 4:6; Lev. 16; Rev. 14:6, 7; 20:12; 14:12; 22:12.)

But after reading it one is left wondering what it is all supposed to be about and why it matters anyway. The parts highlighted in red indicate, as far as one is able to discern, that the ten commandments form the basis for God's judgement of humankind and since 1844, or some time after that date, there's been a remnant church on earth proclaiming reform of some kind and a message about the reform and coming judgement. And then there is that item about Investigative judgement which has Jesus going through some kind of record of each person's life and showing it to 'heavenly intelligences' so it can be decided who will rise to everlasting life in the first resurrection and who will not. The whole system is founded on the belief that the dead are asleep (soul sleep) and know nothing of what is happening either in heaven or on earth until this investigative judgement is finished. Then, presumably, the righteous are raised and told that they will inherit everlasting life (this would be the first resurrection) while the unrighteous remain asleep until some later time, presumably after the 1000 years, and then are raised to be condemned and cast into the lake burning with everlasting fire in which, after a time that is not defined, they will be annihilated (the other part of soul-sleep belief being the eternal and total destruction to the point of non-existence of the wicked).

 

[Leuko Petra]

Well that was a whole lot of hot air, do you want to give us some substance to anything you are saying and no your "interpreting scripture with scripture" thing doesn't cut it. All you do is drag two verses kicking and screaming from their contexts and ram them together until they're no longer recognisable. Your normal proof by verbosity also doesn't cut it.

Brother, if you will please allow me a bit of time inbetween responses and posts? as there are more pressing matters to attend to throughout the day, especially in the field of ministry...

...many souls hungering for the Word of God, asking questions, needing answers, hurting and needing someone to speak with and pray with, lonely souls locked away in cells, that need the light of Jesus Christs gospel and the truth He brings...

...thousands brother... many thousands...

Let us consider a moment then, why the need for the investigation process, like any parolee out on grace and good faith...:

Sins are forgiven - that is covered by the blood of the Lamb, or as it says elsehwere the sins are thrown into the depth of the sea [again covered], but they are not gone, but norn away, and merely covered by the waves of the sea, or covered by the blood. These can be reinstated to our account.

Matthew 18:23-35, and elsewhere, like Ezekiel, etc, shares this quite well, in that sins can be forgiven by God, though it costs dearly, but forgiveness does not blot them out, therefore they are not totally gone, merely covered in grace until such time to be removed or reinstated, since they are reinstated upon the one that had not mercy during his probation of grace in forgiveness, this is the perfect example.

Sins are to be blotted out, even as foretold in the type given us by Jesus Himself, in Leviticus 16 and 23, the Day of Atonement. That is that they were covered, and then through another atonement distinct from the Leviticus 4 atonement, are then totally removed, gone forever, and cannot be reinstated, since it will then be past the time of probation, all cases decided, Luke 13:25, Daniel 12:1, Revelation 22:11, etc.Investigative Judgment is all throughout the Bible from Genesis to Revelation.

Battle between God and satan in the garden. God gave warning of Judgment about the Tree of knowldge of Good and Evil... Mankind sinned. God came "looking"... [Judgment investigation] asking questions, Where are you, What have you done? [not that God does not know, but there were others, fallen and unfallen in the struggle which began in Heaven, and for Adam's sake]. Judgment sentence [curses, etc]. Judgment executed [cast out of the garden, death, curses, etc].

Battle between God and satan, outside the garden. Cain kills Abel. God comes to Cain "looking"... [Judgment investigation] asking "Where is your brother, the blood cries out, etc." [again not that God does not know, but that everything may be established...]Judgment sentence [curse].Pleas for mercy. Judgment executed [Cain marked, out from the presence of the Lord, etc]

Battle between God and satan, just before the flood, God looks upon the earth at all the wickedness [investigation], pleading with man, Judgment sentence [flood is coming], Judgment executed [Flood comes], Noah saved.

Battle between God and satan, at the tower of Babel. God comes down looking [Judgment investigation, let us go to], Judgment sentence, Judgment executed.

Battle of God and satan, at Sodom and Gomorah, wicked city is carried captive, saved by God through Abraham, but turns again to its ways, God comes down to see [Judgment investigative], Abraham pleads, Judgment sentence [Sodom and Gomorah to be overthrown], Judgment Executed, Lot saved out of it...

etc.... etc... Battle of God and satan, Jesus comes unto His own, they turn against him, Jesus sees with His own eyes [Judgment investigation], the fruitless fig tree, [Judgment sentence], Rome will come and destroy the Temple, years later [Judgment Executed]...

etc... etc...Battle of God and satan, Jesus in Heaven, his people on earth, Christ as Highpriest, we are in the anti-typical day of atonement [day of judgment, are we right with God and men], in the Laodicean church [a judging of the people], even as foretold in the book of Daniel [God is my judge], all of it pointing to Judgment Investigation [Judgment begins at the house of God, beginning with the eldest even unto the least], searching of heart, before Jesus comes, books of records are opened [ask for evidence from scripture], for there is Judgment sentence, and a Judgment execution to come...

...The Hour of His Judgement IS Come, even while the Everlasting Gospel goes forward upon this earth - Revelation 14:6-7...

 

[MoreCoffee]

Let us consider a moment then, why the need for the investigation process, like any parolee out on grace and good faith...:

Sins are forgiven - that is covered by the blood of the Lamb, or as it says elsewhere the sins are thrown into the depth of the sea [again covered], but they are not gone, but born away, and merely covered by the waves of the sea, or covered by the blood. These can be reinstated to our account.

Perhaps you can clarify what you intend to teach when you say both "born away, and merely covered" and "These can be reinstated to our account", it seems from the context and from the doctrine under discussion that your words mean that one's forgiven sins are not gone and can be reinstated for the purpose of condemnation. Is that what your words mean? Or do you intend something else?

Matthew 18:23-35,

Then Peter approaching asked him, Lord, if my brother sins against me, how often must I forgive him? As many as seven times? Jesus answered, I say to you, not seven times but seventy-seven times. That is why the kingdom of heaven may be likened to a king who decided to settle accounts with his servants. When he began the accounting, a debtor was brought before him who owed him a huge amount. Since he had no way of paying it back, his master ordered him to be sold, along with his wife, his children, and all his property, in payment of the debt. At that, the servant fell down, did him homage, and said, 'Be patient with me, and I will pay you back in full.' Moved with compassion the master of that servant let him go and forgave him the loan. When that servant had left, he found one of his fellow servants who owed him a much smaller amount. He seized him and started to choke him, demanding, 'Pay back what you owe.' Falling to his knees, his fellow servant begged him, 'Be patient with me, and I will pay you back.' But he refused. Instead, he had him put in prison until he paid back the debt. Now when his fellow servants saw what had happened, they were deeply disturbed, and went to their master and reported the whole affair. His master summoned him and said to him, 'You wicked servant! I forgave you your entire debt because you begged me to. Should you not have had pity on your fellow servant, as I had pity on you?' Then in anger his master handed him over to the torturers until he should pay back the whole debt. So will my heavenly Father do to you, unless each of you forgives his brother from his heart. (Matthew 18:21-35)

and elsewhere, like Ezekiel, etc, shares this quite well, in that sins can be forgiven by God, though it costs dearly, but forgiveness does not blot them out, therefore they are not totally gone, merely covered in grace until such time to be removed or reinstated, since they are reinstated upon the one that had not mercy during his probation of grace in forgiveness, this is the perfect example.

The passage from Matthew is quoted above so that we can all see the parable and understand the point it makes. It is the same point that the Lord, Jesus Christ, made when he taught the people how to pray saying, "If you forgive others their transgressions, your heavenly Father will forgive you. But if you do not forgive others, neither will your Father forgive your transgressions." (Matthew 6:14-15)

Neither the prayer nor the parable teaches that one's forgiven sins can be 'reinstated' and used to condemn but rather that one's disposition towards others will play a role in God's disposition towards you. If you forgive then God will and if you do not then even if you beg forgiveness it will not be granted. The lesson of the parable is that even the most sincere begging for forgiveness has no power if it is begged in hypocrisy. Forgive others and then you will be forgiven is the lesson.

Sins are to be blotted out, even as foretold in the type given us by Jesus Himself, in Leviticus 16 and 23, the Day of Atonement. That is that they were covered, and then through another atonement distinct from the Leviticus 4 atonement, are then totally removed, gone forever, and cannot be reinstated, since it will then be past the time of probation, all cases decided, Luke 13:25, Daniel 12:1, Revelation 22:11, etc. Investigative Judgment is all throughout the Bible from Genesis to Revelation.

Battle between God and Satan in the garden. God gave warning of Judgment about the Tree of knowledge of Good and Evil... Mankind sinned. God came "looking"... [Judgment investigation] asking questions, Where are you, What have you done? [not that God does not know, but there were others, fallen and unfallen in the struggle which began in Heaven, and for Adam's sake]. Judgment sentence [curses, etc]. Judgment executed [cast out of the garden, death, curses, etc].

Battle between God and Satan, outside the garden. Cain kills Abel. God comes to Cain "looking"... [Judgment investigation] asking "Where is your brother, the blood cries out, etc." [again not that God does not know, but that everything may be established...]Judgment sentence [curse].Pleas for mercy. Judgment executed [Cain marked, out from the presence of the Lord, etc]

Battle between God and Satan, just before the flood, God looks upon the earth at all the wickedness [investigation], pleading with man, Judgment sentence [flood is coming], Judgment executed [Flood comes], Noah saved.

Battle between God and Satan, at the tower of Babel. God comes down looking [Judgment investigation, let us go to], Judgment sentence, Judgment executed.

Battle of God and Satan, at Sodom and Gomorrah, wicked city is carried captive, saved by God through Abraham, but turns again to its ways, God comes down to see [Judgment investigative], Abraham pleads, Judgment sentence [Sodom and Gomorrah to be overthrown], Judgment Executed, Lot saved out of it...

etc.... etc... Battle of God and Satan, Jesus comes unto His own, they turn against him, Jesus sees with His own eyes [Judgment investigation], the fruitless fig tree, [Judgment sentence], Rome will come and destroy the Temple, years later [Judgment Executed]...

etc... etc...Battle of God and Satan, Jesus in Heaven, his people on earth, Christ as High priest, we are in the anti-typical day of atonement [day of judgment, are we right with God and men], in the Laodicean church [a judging of the people], even as foretold in the book of Daniel [God is my judge], all of it pointing to Judgment Investigation [Judgment begins at the house of God, beginning with the eldest even unto the least], searching of heart, before Jesus comes, books of records are opened [ask for evidence from scripture], for there is Judgment sentence, and a Judgment execution to come...

...The Hour of His Judgement IS Come, even while the Everlasting Gospel goes forward upon this earth - Revelation 14:6-7...

I may come back to the additional claims that you've made in the grey text above, but for now the core of your theological construct appears to be that sins are not finally removed by God's forgiveness but that they can be reinstated for various reasons. That is not the teaching of the parable however, nor is it the teaching of Christ.

 

[Leuko Petra]

Perhaps you can clarify what you intend to teach when you say both "born away, and merely covered" and "These can be reinstated to our account", it seems from the context and from the doctrine under discussion that your words mean that one's forgiven sins are not gone and can be reinstated for the purpose of condemnation. Is that what your words mean? Or do you intend something else? ...

"Then the lord of that servant was moved with compassion, and loosed him, and forgave him the debt." Matthew 18:27

"Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me:" Matthew 18:32

"And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him." Matthew 18:34


******

"...Since even that servant who was unmerciful to his fellow-servants, until he demanded the hundred pence, had the grace of his master abiding on him. But when he made that demand, it was taken from him, and he was delivered to the tormentors...." [Chrysostom; Homily 1 on Philemon] - http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/23091.htm]

 

[MoreCoffee]

"Then the lord of that servant was moved with compassion, and loosed him, and forgave him the debt." Matthew 18:27

"Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me:" Matthew 18:32

"And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him." Matthew 18:34

Verses without context are a pretext for false claims.

The story in Matthew 18:21-35 is a parable. The Master of the unforgiving servant is a fictitious character as is the servant.

The lesson of the parable is not fictitious. The lesson, as stated in post #219, is "Forgive others and then you will be forgiven".

Verses read in context form the proper basis for doctrine.

 

[MoreCoffee]

...
"...Since even that servant who was unmerciful to his fellow-servants, until he demanded the hundred pence, had the grace of his master abiding on him. But when he made that demand, it was taken from him, and he was delivered to the tormentors...." [Chrysostom; Homily 1 on Philemon] - http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/23091.htm]

It is good to quote in context, Leuko Petra, rather than to lift words out of their context and use them as a pretext for teaching something that the words do not teach.

Grace to you, and peace.

By mentioning grace, he brings his own sins to his remembrance. Consider, he says, how great things God has pardoned in you, how by grace you are saved. Imitate your Lord. And he prays for peace to him; and naturally: for it comes then when we imitate Him, then grace abides. Since even that servant who was unmerciful to his fellow-servants, until he demanded the hundred pence, had the grace of his master abiding on him. But when he made that demand, it was taken from him, and he was delivered to the tormentors.

Moral. Considering these things, then, let us also be merciful and forgiving towards those who have trespassed against us. The offences against us here are a hundred pence, but those from us against God are ten thousand talents. But you know that offences are also judged by the quality of the persons: for instance, he who has insulted a private person has done wrong, but not so much as he who has insulted a magistrate, and he who has offended a greater magistrate offends in a higher degree, and he who offends an inferior one in a lower degree; but he who insults the king offends much more. The injury indeed is the same, but it becomes greater by the excellence of the person. And if he who insults a king receives intolerable punishment, on account of the superiority of the person; for how many talents will he be answerable who insults God? So that even if we should commit the same offences against God, that we do against men, even so it is not an equal thing: but as great as is the difference between God and men, so great is that between the offences against Him and them.
-- Homily 1 on Philemon, saint John Chrysostom​

 

[Keachian]

<snip>

Nice job you've successfully read IJ into scripture where not even IJ claims it should be read in. The IJ started in 1844 and so there is no reason for God to be "looking" as you say before then.

 

[Sophrosyne]

Nice job you've successfully read IJ into scripture where not even IJ claims it should be read in. The IJ started in 1844 and so there is no reason for God to be "looking" as you say before then.

It is just a smoke screen IMO to cover up how gullible adventists were back then to buy into something that is against scripture to begin with. The Bible equates that nobody knows when Jesus will come back and apparently a whole lot of these people didn't know that part of the Bible nor take it seriously and got caught looking like fools in it all. Most of these same people invented the SDA Church which is ironic because these SDA folks now claim to have superior knowledge of guess what? Prophecy... AGAIN.
Some folks will never learn.

 

[Stryder06]

And said to have been completed in Hebrews

Where does Hebrews say the cleansing of the sanctuary was completed?

 

[Stryder06]

The IJ is one* of the most convoluted and unsubstantiated doctrines I have come across, if we are to take BrightCandle's decision to apply Occam's Razor to theology seriously then we by necessity need to discard it.

It's not convoluted at all. It's rather quite simple.

So Ellen Harmon (1827-1915) is no prophet?

Did she ever claim to be?

 

[Stryder06]

It is just a smoke screen IMO to cover up how gullible adventists were back then to buy into something that is against scripture to begin with. The Bible equates that nobody knows when Jesus will come back and apparently a whole lot of these people didn't know that part of the Bible nor take it seriously and got caught looking like fools in it all. Most of these same people invented the SDA Church which is ironic because these SDA folks now claim to have superior knowledge of guess what? Prophecy... AGAIN.
Some folks will never learn.

You should really learn your history in regards to this matter. It's not smoke for one. Second the widely held view among Christians at that time was that the earth was the sanctuary. Given the study of the prophecy, and the fact that the bible does not say "No one shall ever know..." Miller's conclusion (along with others who came to the same conclusion but weren't part of that movement), was logical.

Lastly, most of those people went back to their demoninations, or left the church altogether. It was only a few who remained that ended up forming the Seventh-Day Adventist church. And no one has claimed to have superior knowledge. We simply have studied the past to understand the prophecy for that time in it's appropriate light. The prophecies we proclaim now largely pertain to the events to unfold before the coming of Christ in regards to the true and false church. For the most part, it's the same thing that was taught by the reformers.

It's not about having a "superior" understanding, but the proper one.

 

[Keachian]

Where does Hebrews say the cleansing of the sanctuary was completed?

Whenever it talks of Christ having made satisfaction through his ministry sitting down at the right hand of God

 

[Keachian]

It's not convoluted at all. It's rather quite simple.

oh the concept is quite simple, the dragging out of evidence from scriptures for it is quite convoluted which is why you have stopped trying to defend it, which is why we get 10 maxed out posts from 3AM discussing the support for the doctrine that have no basis in the context of any of his source scriptures and are merely belabouring the point of throwing as much at the wall as he possibly can and hoping something, anything out of the dry floury mixture will stick (he forgets the milk and can hardly stomach the meat)

Did she ever claim to be?

she has the surprising aptitude of both claiming and not claiming the gift, thankfully we have the authorities of the remnant church to tell us that she was indeed a prophet;

18. The Gift of Prophecy:
One of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is prophecy. This gift is an identifying mark of the remnant church and was manifested in the ministry of Ellen. G. White . As the Lord's messenger, her writings are a continuing and authoritative source of truth which provide for the church comfort, guidance, instruction, and correction. They also make clear that the Bible is the standard by which all teaching and experience must be tested. (Joel 2:28, 29; Acts 2:14-21; Heb. 1:1-3; Rev. 12:17; 19:10.)​

 

[Stryder06]

Whenever it talks of Christ having made satisfaction through his ministry sitting down at the right hand of God

That's not what it means for the sanctuary to be cleansed.

 

[Stryder06]

oh the concept is quite simple, the dragging out of evidence from scriptures for it is quite convoluted which is why you have stopped trying to defend it, which is why we get 10 maxed out posts from 3AM discussing the support for the doctrine that have no basis in the context of any of his source scriptures and are merely belabouring the point of throwing as much at the wall as he possibly can and hoping something, anything out of the dry floury mixture will stick (he forgets the milk and can hardly stomach the meat)

It's not that I've stopped trying to defend it. It's that I've decided there's a limit to how much one can say before it becomes useless. My job is not to convict or convience anyone here. I don't mind answering a few questions every now and then, but for some individuals, it won't matter what is said, they simply won't believe. But again, it's not convoluted. You say that because you don't understand it, and you don't want to understand because you have a bias against Adventism.

she has the surprising aptitude of both claiming and not claiming the gift, thankfully we have the authorities of the remnant church to tell us that she was indeed a prophet;

18. The Gift of Prophecy:
One of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is prophecy. This gift is an identifying mark of the remnant church and was manifested in the ministry of Ellen. G. White . As the Lord's messenger, her writings are a continuing and authoritative source of truth which provide for the church comfort, guidance, instruction, and correction. They also make clear that the Bible is the standard by which all teaching and experience must be tested. (Joel 2:28, 29; Acts 2:14-21; Heb. 1:1-3; Rev. 12:17; 19:10.)
​

One can prophecy without being a prophet. Sr White had many gifts. So please answer the question, when did she call herself a prophet. We're not talking about what other people called her, but about what she called herself.