How could you tell?

[HitchSlap]

You feel that it should not be done, I agree. I hope hitchslap understands.

Both of my examples are clear examples of god proclaiming his intent to lie and deceive, in context.

 

[HitchSlap]

Why just one verse?

Why are you still quote-mining?

You're free to point out how I've incorrectly used this verse to make my point, or you can keep protesting.

 

[Elioenai26]

Both of my examples are clear examples of god proclaiming his intent to lie and deceive, in context.

Lol....

I have yet to see any context....only singular verses plucked from their context.

 

[Non sequitur]

Shame on you...

You are forgetting what you posted!

"You literally could not know if your god was tricking you..."

That is what you said, to which I responded,:

Even if I grant that i.e. even if I grant that I could not know if God was tricking me....so what?

You then take the above and say that I would be wrong about God being good.

That is a non-sequitur non-sequitur. You have chosen your name well!

It does not follow that because I am unable to discern if God is tricking me, that God is necessarily tricking me. I could be wrong, but not necessarily wrong. He could be tricking me, not necessarily tricking me. He could be telling the truth, which in fact I have abundant reasons to maintain is the case.

And I ask again.....so what??

What good reasons do I have to think God is lying to me?

Do you have any to give me?

If he was tricking you, he would not be the god you think he is.

You're going about it all wrong by thinking he wouldn't lie, then ask why would he?

I am not saying he is lying to you, but you have no ability to know if he is or is not lying to you.

 

[Non sequitur]

You're free to point out how I've incorrectly used this verse to make my point, or you can keep protesting.

I wonder if the claim you are making is falsifiable and could be shown incorrect?

 

[HitchSlap]

I wonder if the claim you are making is falsifiable and could be shown incorrect?

Of course it is. He knows I'm right, which is why he doesn't refute my claim, that I've "plucked" them out of context. He knows I'm right, and now he's backpedaling from his original statement that god cannot lie.

 

[Elioenai26]

Of course it is. He knows I'm right, which is why he doesn't refute my claim, that I've "plucked" them out of context. He knows I'm right, and now he's backpedaling from his original statement that god cannot lie.

Can you provide the context in which those verses were taken? How about the preceding chapter, the chapter, and the chapter following?

Do not be hypocritical. Provide the context as you require me to do and we will go from there.

 

[HitchSlap]

Can you provide the context in which those verses were taken? How about the preceding chapter, the chapter, and the chapter following?

Do not be hypocritical. Provide the context as you require me to do and we will go from there.

Nope. You claimed your god cannot lie. I provided just two verses, in context, using a source you accept as infallible, that your god is capable of lies and deception. Until you are able to prove me wrong, using the same verses, that indeed god was not intending to deliberately lie and deceive, then I have proved your claim wrong.

 

[Elioenai26]

Nope.

Case closed.

 

[HitchSlap]

Case closed.

I understand.

 

[Cearbhall]

You feel that it should not be done, I agree. I hope hitchslap understands.

If you agree with me, then you sacrifice all your credibility.

 

[Non sequitur]

Case closed.

Wow.

You are blatantly ignoring your own bible...

 

[Archaeopteryx]

I dismiss it because it is a logical fallacy and a type of false attribution in which a passage is removed from its surrounding matter in such a way as to distort its intended meaning.

Why just one verse?

Why are you still quote-mining?

The irony is astounding.

 

[Cearbhall]

The irony is astounding.

It's circular logic at its finest. "My interpretation of this Bible verse is correct and I know this because it agrees with the teachings of my religion which come from this Bible verse."

 

[Aeroflotte]

It's circular logic at its finest. "My interpretation of this Bible verse is correct and I know this because it agrees with the teachings of my religion which come from this Bible verse."

I think that if one has faith in the Bible, that the faith can't be explained logically or rationally, because the basis of the faith is irrationality. A rational framework could then be built upon that irrationality, which seems to be what Elio is doing. So when you back him into a corner, that there is nowhere to go because the rational arguments are ineffective against the irrational foundation. The circular logic is then a logical conclusion. He isn't trying to be difficult.

 

[Cearbhall]

I think that if one has faith in the Bible, that the faith can't be explained logically or rationally, because the basis of the faith is irrationality. A rational framework could then be built upon that irrationality, which seems to be what Elio is doing. So when you back him into a corner, that there is nowhere to go because the rational arguments are ineffective against the irrational foundation. The circular logic is then a logical conclusion. He isn't trying to be difficult.

I think that's religion in general. People defend religious beliefs that were only conceived to answer questions for which we now have answers.

 

[daniel777]

I'm just curious.

I know theists assume their god is good, wrote/directly influenced the bible, talks to you, etc., but how would you know if your god was either evil or a trickster and lying?

Christians believe God isn't a malevolent, lying trickster because the bible commands them, first and foremost, to love God and people, including those who make themselves enemies, and they believe the Christ, who is God, embodies those ideals.

For Christians, It all rests on the character of Jesus.

 

[Non sequitur]

Christians believe God isn't a malevolent, lying trickster because the bible commands them, first and foremost, to love God and people, including those who make themselves enemies, and they believe the Christ, who is God, embodies those ideals.

For Christians, It all rests on the character of Jesus.

But if he was a trickster or lying, he could write this bible to say whatever he wants; you can't hang your foundation on that, when books, people, information and experiences can be manipulated.

If he controlled what you knew to begin with, you can't say whether it is truthful or not, therefore you can't say it is the truth.

How do you get around this problem, without circular reasoning/logic?

 

[crimsonleaf]

But if he was a trickster or lying, he could write this bible to say whatever he wants; you can't hang your foundation on that, when books, people, information and experiences can be manipulated.

If he controlled what you knew to begin with, you can't say whether it is truthful or not, therefore you can't say it is the truth.

How do you get around this problem, without circular reasoning/logic?

I didn't respond to your earlier reply to my previous post because it looked as if you'd missed my point entirely. So again, what motivation would an evil trickster have for making us all do good things to and for each other? I appreciate that there may be fictional characters who have misled groups of people, but I'n not talking about them because no deception in filmland would match the deception you describe.

You've asked us to imagine a hypothetical situation, so you do like wise and give me a reason for God lying about everything to everyone all of the time.

 

[HitchSlap]

You've asked us to imagine a hypothetical situation, so you do like wise and give me a reason for God lying about everything to everyone all of the time.

Maybe he's bored?