Zen Buddhist vs Christianity or Zen Buddhist Christian ???

[Mikeb85]

Has anyone heard of Zen Buddhist speaking in tongues or just babbling due to certain awakenings?

Ecstatic utterances are known in Buddhism, Shinto, Taoism, Islam, and also some Voodoo and animist belief systems. As well as certain sects of Christianity of course.

So the direct answer to your question is yes.

However, more miraculous is when people who speak separate languages can understand each other

 

[RisingSpirit]

A follower of Jesus Christ doesn't do meditation other than upon the word of God which is something different.

Buddhist Meditation is an occult practice, and we don't participate in that. We are told to fix our minds etc on God, not on "nothing".

God is the creator and everything He created exists now. Meditationers are mindful on existence as it is. Christians that deny God's existance are hurting themselves by stabbing what God created. When they hurt themselves, over time they become ill with diseases questioning God why He hasn't healed them. Christians are not mindfull and get caught up in the lynch mob culture and follow men who lead crowds to blinly hurt God without knowing it as they don't know God as they are unregenerate and remained totally deprived they were born with meaning they were born with no clue who God is.

 

[RisingSpirit]

Ecstatic utterances are known in Buddhism, Shinto, Taoism, Islam, and also some Voodoo and animist belief systems. As well as certain sects of Christianity of course.

So the direct answer to your question is yes.

However, more miraculous is when people who speak separate languages can understand each other

Any youtube examples of this?

 

[RisingSpirit]

Ecstatic utterances are known in Buddhism, Shinto, Taoism, Islam, and also some Voodoo and animist belief systems. As well as certain sects of Christianity of course.

So the direct answer to your question is yes.

However, more miraculous is when people who speak separate languages can understand each other

While the branch of the New Age movement in which I was involved did not
include speaking in tongues, I was struck by the incredibly close similarity
between Christian ‘tongues’ and various Shamanic and pagan religious practices
where rhythmic chanting and trance vocalisation are employed. There was also a
disturbing parallel between the ‘spirit filled’ state of a Christian
tongue-speaker, who didn’t understand what he was saying, and the ‘spirit filled’
state of a trance medium.

I found the above quote here

 

[BruceDLimber]

Which forms of Buddhism are theistic?

I'm not in a position to characterize which forms of Buddhism are or aren't theistic, but will point out these passages from the Buddhist scriptures, which sure sound like theism to me!:

There is, O monks, an Unborn, Unoriginated, Uncreated, Unformed. Were there not, O monks, this Unborn, Unoriginated, Uncreated, Unformed, there would be no escape from the world of the born, originated, created, formed. Since, O monks, there is an Unborn, Unoriginated, Uncreated, Unformed, therefore is there an escape from the born, originated, created, formed. What is dependant, that also moves; what is independent does not move.

and

"The one who does not desire anything,
"But directly knows even the uncreated;
"Not satisfied, such a one breaks off any
"Possibility for rebirth by swallowing
"What he has made. Such one is the Supreme!"
--Dhammapada 9

Buddhist scriptures also speak of "gods and men."

Peace,

Bruce

 

[Mikeb85]

Which forms of Buddhism are theistic?

Depends what you mean by theistic. All Buddhists believe deities exist. Mahayana (which includes Zen and Tibetan Buddhists) practice devotion to deities, whereas Theravada usually don't (though some do anyway, possibly due to indigenous non-Buddhist beliefs or Mahayana influence).

 

[gord44]

Depends what you mean by theistic. All Buddhists believe deities exist.

Gonna have to disagree there. I haven't met a Buddhist who think deities exist. Zen especially. I would dare say a zen teacher would tell a student that there is deities and there isn't. What does it matter?

The closest theistic Buddhists from what I have seen is Western Pure land Buddhists who see the Amida Buddha as sort of a salvation type archetype, similar to Christ.

 

[Mikeb85]

Gonna have to disagree there. I haven't met a Buddhist who think deities exist. Zen especially. I would dare say a zen teacher would tell a student that there is deities and there isn't. What does it matter?

The closest theistic Buddhists from what I have seen is Western Pure land Buddhists who see the Amida Buddha as sort of a salvation type archetype, similar to Christ.

All the canonical Buddhist scriptures mention deities. Sure, there are plenty of western atheist-Buddhists, but that doesn't mean they represent authentic Buddhist teachings.

Buddhist iconography is also full of deities. Zen monasteries have icons/statues of various 'protector gods'.

 

[smaneck]

Has anyone heard of Zen Buddhist speaking in tongues or just babbling due to certain awakenings?

The Oracles of ancient Greece and Rome as well as religions of West Africa practiced speaking in tongues but not Buddhism to my knowledge. Personally I believe speaking in tongues was introduced in American Evangelical Christianity by black slaves who practiced it as a part of their indigenous religion. We still find it in Voodoo.

 

[smaneck]

However, more miraculous is when people who speak separate languages can understand each other

That, of course, is what is supposed to have happened on the Day of Pentecost. It had nothing to do with speaking in tongues.

 

[smaneck]

Depends what you mean by theistic. All Buddhists believe deities exist. Mahayana (which includes Zen and Tibetan Buddhists) practice devotion to deities, whereas Theravada usually don't (though some do anyway, possibly due to indigenous non-Buddhist beliefs or Mahayana influence).

Usually devotion is given to Bodhisatvas not deities. Bodhisatvas are Enlightened persons who have taken vows not to enter Nirvana until all sentient beings have gone before them. Therefore, the continue to be reincarnated. The most famous bodhisatvas are Amitabha (Amida), Maitreya and Avalokiteshvara. The latter got conflated with the goddess of wisdom in China and became Kuan Yin.

Buddhism explicitly denies there is a creator God. Since life is suffering anyone who created it would have to be evil anyhow. It doesn't explicitly deny the existence of other gods but since they are seen as trapped on the wheel of rebirth like humans they are of no use to those who want to get off the merry-go-round.

 

[gord44]

All the canonical Buddhist scriptures mention deities. Sure, there are plenty of western atheist-Buddhists, but that doesn't mean they represent authentic Buddhist teachings.

Buddhist iconography is also full of deities. Zen monasteries have icons/statues of various 'protector gods'.

Just because the scitpures speak of a deity, doesn't mean it is required or even common. Buddhist scriptures aren't like the Bible. When people worry to much about them they get dogmatic which leads to anti-Buddhist mentality. Alot of the deity's were cultural as well, mentioned because they were part of that culture. And just because a Buddhist doesn't believe in deity's, doesn't mean they are an atheist.

 

[lupusFati]

I never learned about any such deities or even scriptures when I was experimenting with Zen Buddhism. Sure, I was probably still too new and perhaps I didn't read every single article, but it was never even mentioned. And I had contact with a teacher online even.

The main goal was just... not thinking. Not even thinking about that. And for a while it was nice, but I don't think I'm the kind of person who can just sit still without any sort of stimulation. Not that I get bored, but it seems physically impossible for me to do it more than an hour or so without doing something like walking around or playing with my hands. I don't think that's my fault though.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Intriguing...

 

[RisingSpirit]

A Christian couldn't do zazen, which is a practice that is contrary to the Bible.

It's better to clear the mind of mental noise first to hear the whispers of God. The unregenerates couldn't hear God's whispers including God's thunderous deafening Words.

All men are born deaf to God's Words. The Elects are the only ones who hear the faint whispers of the Lord. Such sitters on pillows haver greater love and desires to be enlightened by the formless creator.

Men with noisy minds leads noisy people into the pits along with the spiritually blinds.

​

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Hi Yall
Isnt zen buddhism and Christianity kinda the same ? If not whats the difference from zen buddhism and christianity? And cant some one be a zen buddhist christian? Y or y not

I think when faith/trust transforms into surrender in a Christian all the disciplines become very "zen"

what's different between Christianity and Buddhism is the age they were created in gave them different mandates .

Christianity though presented as a Karmic religion, is as a basis the end of Karma/Law, and gives a different way of relating to the phenomena ..

i can see the similarities you're getting at, i think the difference has to do with what the human is connecting to . in Zen the connection is to everything . in Christianity the connection is to the holy spirit . Though through the holy spirit .. a connection to all things is also available . so there are indeed similarities .. but the mechanics are different . and the specifics of the traditions would give different benefits depending on which one you're a disciple of .

In a "Zen" state of christianity .. the senses leave the carnal body . and enter the new body (that is spoken of in the concept of being "born again" so the sensory model would be different as well in the "end product" but most of us in many respects are .. a work in progress to death .) and love (god) becomes the motivator .. instead of the fight or flight syndrome . my understanding of Eastern philosophies on an application level at this point shift to Shintoism or the Tao. which would be another thread altogether .

So in short i see the similarities . and also what makes them different . thank you for the question .

 

[Mikeb85]

Usually devotion is given to Bodhisatvas not deities. Bodhisatvas are Enlightened persons who have taken vows not to enter Nirvana until all sentient beings have gone before them. Therefore, the continue to be reincarnated. The most famous bodhisatvas are Amitabha (Amida), Maitreya and Avalokiteshvara. The latter got conflated with the goddess of wisdom in China and became Kuan Yin.

In the Vajrayana and Indian flavoured Mahayana sects, there is much more devotion to gods/goddesses. They aren't seen as supreme beings, but rather 'protectors' and deities that can offer favours. Vajrayana sects even use oracles and mediums, and attempt to 'tame' various 'gods', and bring them to submission. Read up about the Dorje Shugden controversy, it'll give a bit more insight into deities in Vajrayana Buddhism.

Further, because of the belief in reincarnation, it is believed that former humans can be reborn as deities, and vice versa, so it blurs the line a bit between our understanding of 'gods' and the Buddhist understanding.

The explanation of Buddhist deities you give is very much in line with the Chinese tradition (Ch'an), which is based on an older form of Mahayana and also Taoism. Buddhism is very different for example, between Theravada (no devotion to deities, no Bodhisattvas, salvation relies on one's own effort) and Vajrayana (lots of devotion to many deities and Bodhisattvas, tantras/magic, various shortcuts and 'techniques' to achieve different types of salvation).

Buddhism explicitly denies there is a creator God. Since life is suffering anyone who created it would have to be evil anyhow. It doesn't explicitly deny the existence of other gods but since they are seen as trapped on the wheel of rebirth like humans they are of no use to those who want to get off the merry-go-round.

Buddhism denies a supreme creator God, but acknowledges many deities in the Hindu pantheon.

Also, it's incorrect to say they believe life is 'suffering' in the sense western people understand it, a more apt translation would be to say it's impermanence and change, and expectations that aren't realistic or which don't understand this leads to suffering. Dukkha - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Obviously not all life is suffering, there is room for happiness and pleasure, and there are many in this life. But impermanence (at least physical) is a fact we all must deal with.

 

[lordistrength]

Hi Yall
Isnt zen buddhism and Christianity kinda the same ?

Buddhism rejects God.

 

[lordistrength]

Just because the scitpures speak of a deity, doesn't mean it is required or even common. Buddhist scriptures aren't like the Bible. When people worry to much about them they get dogmatic which leads to anti-Buddhist mentality. Alot of the deity's were cultural as well, mentioned because they were part of that culture. And just because a Buddhist doesn't believe in deity's, doesn't mean they are an atheist.

It kinda does. The difference between buddhists and atheists is that buddhists dont want to fight against Christians.

 

[Mikeb85]

Buddhism rejects God.

Or at least the supreme nature of God.