Catholics are so sure they are right and I'm questioning now

[SevenwatersDaughter]

Greetings everyone. I hope you have all had a blessed Sunday. I am posting as a former Catholic who is feeling like returning to the church but has many hesitations.

If you would be so kind as to read and share your opinion please do. Here is a bit of background:

- I am 26 years old, happily married to a husband who was born into the Anglican faith but who was not raise in any kind of Christian way -- despite this he has always supported my faith and will accompany me to church, and I do believe he is on the right track to knowing and loving God
- I have a beautiful baby girl who is almost two who was baptised this past April in the Presbyterian church we have been attending for two years now
- my husband and I were married by a non denominational Christian minister at a country club
- I was raised catholic and was baptised, had the first communion, confession and cofirmation.
- in high school I made friends with girls who were Mennonite Brethren and attended some of their services. It was my first time in an evangelical church and while I felt the lack of liturgy sorely, it was a passion for God I had not seen before
- I shopped around for a church for awhile, trying Anglican, Lutheran and united before attending the Presbyterian church and bringing my family
- the Presbyterian church has been so loving and welcoming to us and I really love it, but lately I have been remembering the Catholic Church
- I picked up the book Why Catholics are right from the library after thinking of reading it for months now

I guess I feel like I still kind of belong to the Catholic Church -- for example I have some friends that are fundamentalist christians and even though I no longer attend mass I still feel offended when someone criticizes the Catholic Church, as I would feel offended if someone talked bad about my sister even if I was in a fight with her at the time

The thing is its not just my soul here it's that of my husband and baby, I want to follow the true path of Christ. A lot of what I'm reading in the library book goes a long way to explaining and making sense of what I didn't understand about th Catholic Church, but one doubt that keeps nagging me is the many Protestants who say the pope is of the devil and the bible where it says you will know them by their works, since the church has had such bad things in t lately
I miss the church, the liturgy and tradition but how can I be sure it is true way of Christ?
Mostly I worry of my baby -- will she be ok with a Protestant baptism or will she go to a bad place if something God forbid happened to her
What other books do you reccomebd I read
Most Catholics I know like my sister do not follow the church I e live in sim take birth control no confession but they insist the church is right so why they not follow it?
I don't want to make mistake of coming back if it is wrong but I do not mean to offend anyone here please advice. Are there more books for me?

 

[AMR]

I assume you are not a member of the Presbyterian church you are attending. Have you spoken with the elders of the church about this? Have you spent much time studying the Westminster Standards (WCF, WLC, WSC) that the Presbyterian church confesses?

When you say you miss the Roman Catholic church, the liturgy, and the tradition, what exactly do you miss in these three areas?

As for baptism, your child was baptized in the Presbyterian church, a valid baptism recognizing the covenantal relationship of the child to corporate community of believers.

If you want a fair discussion of why the Catholic church is not the catholic church, you might consider Sproul's "Are We Together?"

We should never lose sight of the fact that Rome has anathematized the doctrines of grace clearly taught in Scripture.

[FONT=&quot]If anyone says that the sinner is justified by faith alone…let him be anathema (Canons of Trent, 43). In effect Rome sets one down a sacramental treadmill of works based righteousness, see here.

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Rome teaches that Scripture is not the highest authority in faith and life. Rome says “both Scripture and Tradition must be accepted and honored with equal sentiments of devotion and reverence” (Catechism, p. 31[/FONT])

[FONT=&quot]We are taught from Scripture that the saints will persevere to the end. Rome's Council of Trent said that true faith can be lost and one can forfeit the grace of justification (Canons of Trent, 38-40).[/FONT]

Furthermore, from Scripture we are taught that there is but one infallible rule of faith and life, the Scriptures. Yet Rome declares that the Pope is infallible when speaking ex cathedra ([FONT=&quot]Vatican I in 1870, and later confirmed in Lumen Gentium at Vatican II).

I could go on and on and actually have a wee bit of experience in this topic, but I think you personally should start with Sproul's book above and also the Westminster Standards.

[NOTE TO OTHERS: Before someone from a non-Presbyterian group considers posting in this forum I want to remind them that this is a forum for Presbyterians or those seeking to understand more about Presbyterianism. This is not the forum for debating our views as there are plenty of debate forums within CF for this. The rules of this forum are stated here and violations will be regularly pointed out by the mods.]
[/FONT]

 

[SevenwatersDaughter]

Thank you! I will absolutely read those!

 

[AMR]

Thank you! I will absolutely read those!

This is good to read. If you have questions on your readings do not hesitate to ask them here or, if you prefer, via PM to me.

 

[SevenwatersDaughter]

I sure do appreciate that. I have never felt more at home than at the Presbyterian church, but I have those niggling doubts about whether I'm meant to be Catholic, and I'm afraid to make the wrong decision!

 

[endtimewarrior]

I would return to the Catholic Church. I think it's better than the Presbyterian Church.

Don't Presbyterians make allowances for homosexuals and abortion? They are quite liberal if I remember correctly.

 

[Apologetic_Warrior]

I would return to the Catholic Church. I think it's better than the Presbyterian Church.

I think you do not have a clue, if you did, you wouldn't have posted what you did here, because this forum is reserved for Presbyterians. What if I were to go to your Catholic forum and make similar remarks?

Don't Presbyterians make allowances for homosexuals and abortion? They are quite liberal if I remember correctly.

Further evidence you have no clue. There are many branches of Presbyterians, PCUSA, PCA, OPC, and so on and so forth. Most Presbyterian denominations are conservative, and historically so also. Liberalism has been a problem in the PCUSA over the past one hundred years or so, which happens to be the largest in numbers of the Presbyterian Churches.

The great irony of what you claim though is the ongoing liberalism throughout the Catholic Church...not that Catholics are all of one denomination either, take charismatic Catholic Churches for example. What really boils my blood though, is how most Catholics will vote democrat, which is a form of showing support for an abortion - homosexual supporting party. This contradictory behavior shows a lack of conviction, a lack of morality, and lack of plain ol' standing up for what is right according to the Bible. It causes people like me to wonder, how or why a Church would say one thing, and turn around and do just the opposite.

 

[Don Maurer]

The great irony of what you claim though is the ongoing liberalism throughout the Catholic Church...not that Catholics are all of one denomination either, take charismatic Catholic Churches for example. What really boils my blood though, is how most Catholics will vote democrat, which is a form of showing support for an abortion - homosexual supporting party. This contradictory behavior shows a lack of conviction, a lack of morality, and lack of plain ol' standing up for what is right according to the Bible. It causes people like me to wonder, how or why a Church would say one thing, and turn around and do just the opposite.

For one year, I subscribed to the Catholic Biblical Quarterly out of curiosity. I wanted to see what kind of contemporary stuff the Jesuits in Washington were writing. I was expecting a heavy emphasis on tradition, or something like that, but the theology seemed more like repackaged old fashion theological liberalism. I felt like I could be reading something from Princeton.

You mention that most American Catholics vote democrat and support political liberalism. I sympathize with your disappointment, but it seems logical to me that they would vote this way. That is where their scholars are.

What is shocking to me is when I see evangelicals and Catholics trying to team up. The ECT joint statement on justification was absurd in my opinion. I understand the ecumenicalism of liberal Lutherans and liberal Catholics, but evangelicals?

 

[endtimewarrior]

I think you do not have a clue, if you did, you wouldn't have posted what you did here, because this forum is reserved for Presbyterians. What if I were to go to your Catholic forum and make similar remarks?

That probably would not bother me since I'm not Catholic.

Further evidence you have no clue. There are many branches of Presbyterians, PCUSA, PCA, OPC, and so on and so forth. Most Presbyterian denominations are conservative, and historically so also. Liberalism has been a problem in the PCUSA over the past one hundred years or so, which happens to be the largest in numbers of the Presbyterian Churches.

So then since the PCUSA is the largest in numbers the bulk of Presbyterians are liberal.

The great irony of what you claim though is the ongoing liberalism throughout the Catholic Church...not that Catholics are all of one denomination either, take charismatic Catholic Churches for example. What really boils my blood though, is how most Catholics will vote democrat, which is a form of showing support for an abortion - homosexual supporting party. This contradictory behavior shows a lack of conviction, a lack of morality, and lack of plain ol' standing up for what is right according to the Bible. It causes people like me to wonder, how or why a Church would say one thing, and turn around and do just the opposite.

There are both liberal and conservative Catholics. Take Bill O'reilly and Paul Ryan for instance. Also, the policies of the Catholic Church are consistently conservative which is why I believe it is a better alternative than the Presbyterian Church.

 

[Fulcrum]

SevenwatersDaughter,

Gods plan of salvation does not seem to be the same as the one preached by the Roman Catholic Church. I suggest you look up sermonaudio.com, sermons by topic, Catholicism.

 

[endtimewarrior]

Do Presbyterians believe in the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist?

I know that that is an important issue to Catholics.

 

[endtimewarrior]

SevenwatersDaughter,

Gods plan of salvation does not seem to be the same as the one preached by the Roman Catholic Church. I suggest you look up sermonaudio.com, sermons by topic, Catholicism.

So in your opinion then Roman Catholics aren't saved.

As a former Catholic I can honestly say that the RCC does indeed preach the full gospel.

 

[Fulcrum]

So in your opinion then Roman Catholics aren't saved.

As a former Catholic I can honestly say that the RCC does indeed preach the full gospel.

They preach their version.

Ephesians 2: 8,9.

 

[AMR]

As a former Catholic I can honestly say that the RCC does indeed preach the full gospel.

You would be in error unless you are confining your statement to some odd local parish that you attended. Even then, such a parish would be anathematized quite rapidly given the clear teachings of Trent. “If anyone says that the sinner is justified by faith alone…let him be anathema” (Canons of Trent, 43). Scripture, however, clearly teaches that God justifies ungodly sinners by faith alone, completely apart from works. The full gospel of Christ is not preached in Roman Catholicism dogma. If it were, then why the Reformation? If it were, then all Protestants are schismatics. Your post simply does not pass the test of history and the written testimony of Roman Catholic dogmatic documents.

 

[endtimewarrior]

I don't think Presbyterians believe in the real presence. That is another reason I would choose the Catholic Church over the Presbyterian.

 

[endtimewarrior]

You would be in error unless you are confining your statement to some odd local parish that you attended. Even then, such a parish would be anathematized quite rapidly given the clear teachings of Trent. “If anyone says that the sinner is justified by faith alone…let him be anathema” (Canons of Trent, 43). Scripture, however, clearly teaches that God justifies ungodly sinners by faith alone, completely apart from works. The full gospel of Christ is not preached in Roman Catholicism dogma. If it were, then why the Reformation? If it were, then all Protestants are schismatics. Your post simply does not pass the test of history and the written testimony of Roman Catholic dogmatic documents.

If Catholics don't believe the full gospel then why the need to partake of the body and blood of Christ daily.

The Reformation was spurred on by Luther over the sale of indulgences.

 

[Fulcrum]

If Catholics don't believe the full gospel then why the need to partake of the body and blood of Christ daily.

Because they don't believe the full Gospel.

Hebrews 10:10, 10:12, 10:14.

 

[endtimewarrior]

Because they don't believe the full Gospel.

Pardon me but I think that you are giving an opinion without any evidence to back it up.

Catholics partake of communion regularly. They would not do so if they did not have faith in the sacrifice of Christ.

 

[AMR]

Pardon me but I think that you are giving an opinion without any evidence to back it up.

Catholics partake of communion regularly. They would not do so if they did not have faith in the sacrifice of Christ.

No. I do not believe that a church has the power to summon the ascended Christ back to earth in the flesh by the ringing of a bell in the Mass. Via the Catholic mass, God's gracious delivering action for us has been changed into a sacrifice we offer up to appease the wrath of God. The Gospel being changed into Law.

You are going too far. You are advocating views contrary to the statement of faith of this forum. This is a forum by and for Presbyterians and those interested in Presbyterianism. It is not a forum to debate Presbyterianism or advocate for other views. Please refresh yourself on the rules of CF safe-haven, faith-based forums, e.g.,

The rules of the Confessional, Covenantal, Creedal - Presbyterian forum are described here:

http://www.christianforums.com/t7423440/

See also moderator reminder here:

http://www.christianforums.com/t7743708/#post63090623

 

[Apologetic_Warrior]

I don't think Presbyterians believe in the real presence. That is another reason I would choose the Catholic Church over the Presbyterian.

Lutherans do, why would you not give them the nod over Catholics, since you claim to be an ex-Catholic, and seem to give Eucharist belief primacy over many other doctrines (like the Five Solas) which the Reformers broke away from the RC over?