Prevenient Grace: What is it?

[Hammster]

This term gets used from time to time around here. I think some just assume that everyone understands it.

So, here's a chance for proponents to set the record straight.

1. What is it?
2. Why is it necessary?
3. What is the biblical support?

 

[Iosias]

What is prevenient grace?

 

[Hammster]

What is prevenient grace?

I already asked that question. It's the OP.

 

[Iosias]

I already asked that question. It's the OP.

The link provides the answer

 

[Hammster]

The link provides the answer

I can't see links with my phone.

But I'm also not a big fan of links being provided in lieu of answers. Most folks I know can do google searches.

 

[AndOne]

This term gets used from time to time around here. I think some just assume that everyone understands it.

So, here's a chance for proponents to set the record straight.

1. What is it?
2. Why is it necessary?
3. What is the biblical support?

1. In a nutshell it is a synergistic doctrine which teaches that through Jesus' death and resurrection everyone is given the ability to either believe or reject the gospel.

2. Because with this doctrine you can still hold to the Biblical doctrine of original sin, deny the pelagian error, and yet ascribe to man the ability to participate with and help God in his own salvation.

3. It is not Biblical. John 6:44 clearly states that no one comes to the Father unless God draws him. John 1:12-13 clearly states that a man does not become a child of God through his own will.

 

[dogs4thewin]

1. In a nutshell it is a synergistic doctrine which teaches that through Jesus' death and resurrection everyone is given the ability to either believe or reject the gospel.

2. Because with this doctrine you can still hold to the Biblical doctrine of original sin, deny the pelagian error, and yet ascribe to man the ability to participate with and help God in his own salvation.

3. It is not Biblical. John 6:44 clearly states that no one comes to the Father unless God draws him. John 1:12-13 clearly states that a man does not become a child of God through his own will.

which is it? You (the reformed posters here) keep telling me that God changes the HEART. By saying that we do not become a child by our own will is to suggest force, which is NOT love.

 

[AndOne]

which is it? You (the reformed posters here) keep telling me that God changes the HEART. By saying that we do not become a child by our own will is to suggest force, which is NOT love.

I didn't say it, friend. The Bible does. Check the reference.

 

[dogs4thewin]

I didn't say it, friend. The Bible does. Check the reference.

Is force love? I do not think you need the Bible to answer that question. If God makes us because His child that is force not love.

 

[AndOne]

Is force love? I do not think you need the Bible to answer that question. If God makes us because His child that is force not love.

I don't see it that way but the Bible is clear that we don't become a child of God through our own will. Check John 1:12-13, dont take my word for it.

 

[Hammster]

Already off topic, and still on page one.

 

[Hammster]

I created a thread just for this topic, and no proponents have chimes in. Weird.

 

[Hammster]

Bump.

 

[OzSpen]

I created a thread just for this topic, and no proponents have chimes in. Weird.

That's because you don't believe in prevenient grace, but irresistible grace, and what's the point of discussing it with you as you have made up your mind a priori that it is not biblical.

Do you want a fight? I don't. So I have not bothered to respond to your expression of interest because it is covered in other threads.

If you really want to meet your match, why don't you interact with evangelical Arminian theologian, Dr Roger Olson, who teaches at the Southern Baptist George W. Truett Theological Seminary, Baylor University, Waco TX. Read his article online and interact with him. The article is: 'Prevenient grace: Why it matters'.

Oz

 

[Knee V]

Preventing grace is...

Redundant. All grace is by necessity prevenient. There is nothing that we have that is not first a gift from God.

 

[Hammster]

That's because you don't believe in prevenient grace, but irresistible grace, and what's the point of discussing it with you as you have made up your mind a priori that it is not biblical.

Do you want a fight? I don't. So I have not bothered to respond to your expression of interest because it is covered in other threads.

If you really want to meet your match, why don't you interact with evangelical Arminian theologian, Dr Roger Olson, who teaches at the Southern Baptist George W. Truett Theological Seminary, Baylor University, Waco TX. Read his article online and interact with him. The article is: 'Prevenient grace: Why it matters'.

Oz

The problem with discussing it on other threads is that you seem to avoid direct questions. This way, since the thread is about prevenient grace, you can't cry "red herring". But I see you've found another way to avoid interaction.

Btw, I like Olsen. Seems like a pleasant fellow. But even he has admitted that there's no explicit texts from scripture that support prevenient grace.

 

[SolaOne]

Isn't prevenient grace irresistible grace (which has no explicit texts either) that can be resisted?

 

[Hammster]

Isn't prevenient grace irresistible grace (which has no explicit texts either) that can be resisted?

Are you sure that you worded that correctly?

 

[JohnWho?]

That's because you don't believe in prevenient grace, but irresistible grace, and what's the point of discussing it with you as you have made up your mind a priori that it is not biblical.

Do you want a fight? I don't. So I have not bothered to respond to your expression of interest because it is covered in other threads.



Oz

I clicked on the link hoping to get a better handle (I'm guessing that you don't want to address this for some reason?). But I didn't find what I had hoped to find. So I was wondering if you could help me out as this is something I'm hoping to get a better grasp on.

Thanks.

 

[crimsonleaf]

Deleted out of Christian love.