How to deal with evil?

[juvenissun]

Why would you say that I am a humanist? What are you basing that evaluation on? What do you mean by the word "humanist"?


eudaimonia,

Mark

To me, a humanist is a type of atheist.
This type of atheist thinks that human is god.

 

[juvenissun]

I have problems seeing how you concluded that. Rather, it seems to be your premise.

You can not see what evil is. That is why you can not see my argument.

 

[juvenissun]

Well, there are a few ways. Mostly getting rid of earth like emotions, such as hatred, anger, attachment, ego. And turns to god. Because as people of god, yours and my place isn't this earth.

In Islam, we have something called "Tasawwuf", people who learns Tasawwuf are sometimes called "Sufis", which is the "inner" dimension of Islam. The root word for Sufi, means Pure, or Wool (referring to the simplicity of clothes) and lots of other. Tasawwuf is the science whose objective is the reparation of the heart and turning it away from all else but God.

To be a good person of god, you have to have a good balance between Shari'a (physical), and Tasawwuf (spiritual, inner). As Imam Malik said "He who learns jurisprudence and neglects Tasawwuf becomes a reprobate; and he who learns Tasawwuf and neglects jurisprudence becomes an apostate. But he who combines both will reach the Truth"

Sufis turn away from all else but god, so they have no earthly desires, no anger, no greed, no hatred, no egotism and no lust. They are patient, kind, humble, and devote their time helping other people. - they try and act like how Muhammed (pbuh) acted, and best of all they act like how God wants people to act like.

However, there are lots of way to get rid of the seal (ignoraance) as Sufism is just one of many paths. But mainly to be aware of your true self. If any of that makes sense as I don't think I did a good job explaining as I am typing from a phone ._.

But getting rid of this ignorance takes time, even some Sufis practice for 20 years with their sheik! - you could even try asking God to take away the seal?

Peace

I know nothing about Islam. But based on what you said, I am surprised to see that Islam is similar to Buddhism on this issue.

Let me ask you one question: Do you take evil thought in a person as a problem, which is as serious as evil act? In other words, Is it OK for an honorable Imam to have evil thought in his mind even his behavior is blameless?

 

[Tornero]

I know nothing about Islam. But based on what you said, I am surprised to see that Islam is similar to Buddhism on this issue.

Islam is extremely broad and beautiful, but for some reason all we hear about is what extremists do. Tasawwuf is what first attracted me to Islam actually.

However there are a few "more conservative" sects, (like Qubtists, and some Wahabi/Salafees) that reject any sort of tasawwuf.

Let me ask you one question: Do you take evil thought in a person as a problem, which is as serious as evil act? In other words, Is it OK for an honorable Imam to have evil thought in his mind even his behavior is blameless?

"It is narrated on the authority of Abu Huraira that the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) observed: He who intended to do good, but did not do it, one good was recorded for him, and he who intended to do good and also did it, ten to seven hundred good deeds were recorded for him. And he who intended evil, but did not commit it, no entry was made against his name, but if he committed that, it was recorded." - Book of Faith (Kitab Al-Iman) 236

If someone has an evil thought, and then does not commit the act. If he realized this thought is evil and doesn't execute the act, then he is forgiven. As for a Imam having a bad thought; we would never know what their thoughts are. As preaching a thought that is immoral or unlawful is committing the bad act. For instance if I where to think "I distrust Jews" if I were to then tell someone to distrust Jews then this would be a bad deed, but if I realize this thought is wrong and ask for forgiveness then it is netralised.
So an evil thought is not as serious an evil act, unless you carry out this act - Evil acts hurt other people, but evil thoughts only hurt yourself.
However this does not mean that you can think poorly of other people, as corrupt thoughts turn you into a corrupt person.

But... It is not always the act that is unlawful, but the intention of the act however.

Everyone has evil thoughts from time to time, no human is perfect - not even Muhammed (pbuh).

I hope I answered your question correctly
Peace

 

[juvenissun]

"It is narrated on the authority of Abu Huraira that the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) observed: He who intended to do good, but did not do it, one good was recorded for him, and he who intended to do good and also did it, ten to seven hundred good deeds were recorded for him. And he who intended evil, but did not commit it, no entry was made against his name, but if he committed that, it was recorded." - Book of Faith (Kitab Al-Iman) 236

Peace

Thanks.

Since you like Islam, then I will ask this question: How does Islam define evil?

 

[Eudaimonist]

To me, a humanist is a type of atheist.
This type of atheist thinks that human is god.

What is that supposed to mean? I think that human beings are human beings, and no more.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[juvenissun]

What is that supposed to mean? I think that human beings are human beings, and no more.


eudaimonia,

Mark

Yes, that is what I meant.

 

[Eudaimonist]

Yes, that is what I meant.

I'm completely confused now. Are you now taking back your claim that humanists think that "human is god"?


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[quatona]

You can not see what evil is. That is why you can not see my argument.

So you have basically been talking to yourself all the time?

 

[juvenissun]

I'm completely confused now. Are you now taking back your claim that humanists think that "human is god"?


eudaimonia,

Mark

Humanist has no God. So, human is god can not be understood literally.
Human is the highest form of life. There is no less, and there is no more.

 

[juvenissun]

So you have basically been talking to yourself all the time?

?

 

[Noxot]

evil is the shadow of a reflection of good. evil exist because Gods children allows it to exist. if no one believed evil existed and only decided to love God and everyone else then evil would go back to where it came from, which is our freedom that God gave us.

so evil comes from our irrational freedom. our irrational freedom is infinite potentiality that God decided to give each of His children.

 

[madaz]

How to deal with evil?

As a Christian, I know well on the Christian doctrine of evil.

If you know well the Christian doctrine of evil, why are you still a Christian?

 

[ToddNotTodd]

Humanist has no God. So, human is god can not be understood literally.

Wrong. Humanism has no gods. It as simple as that.

Human is the highest form of life. There is no less, and there is no more.

Wrong. There is no "highest form of life." There's more or less successful species.

 

[Sectio Aurea]

Human is the highest form of life.

That sounds arrogant, on what authority do you make that statement?

 

[juvenissun]

That sounds arrogant, on what authority do you make that statement?

We eat everything else. (if you are not a biologist, you can stop this line of argument right here)

 

[juvenissun]

If you know well the Christian doctrine of evil, why are you still a Christian?

Why not?

 

[juvenissun]

Wrong. Humanism has no gods. It as simple as that.



Wrong. There is no "highest form of life." There's more or less successful species.

So the more (most) successful one on at the present time IS the highest form. This is my definition in this argument. There is no need to fuzz about it.

 

[juvenissun]

evil is the shadow of a reflection of good. evil exist because Gods children allows it to exist. if no one believed evil existed and only decided to love God and everyone else then evil would go back to where it came from, which is our freedom that God gave us.

so evil comes from our irrational freedom. our irrational freedom is infinite potentiality that God decided to give each of His children.

Thanks. The purpose of this thread is to understand how do atheists deal with evil.

 

[Eudaimonist]

Human is the highest form of life.

I don't see humanists insisting that human beings are the "highest" form of life, though they may insist that all life (and existence) is natural rather than supernatural. This whole higher/lower business sounds to me like a religious interpretation, possibly motivated by the Garden of Eden story in which there is a heirarchy of things.

I'm reminded of the following diagram, where "ego" refers to the religious view, and "eco" refers to the naturalistic view.

In any case, this is not really how humanism is defined. It refers more to placing human well-being, rather than a God or gods, as the central concern of ethics, while also emphasizing the use of reason.

Wikipedia: Humanism is a group of philosophies and ethical perspectives which emphasize the value and agency of human beings, individually and collectively, and generally prefers individual thought and evidence (rationalism, empiricism), over established doctrine or faith (fideism).

Secular humanism falls under the umbrella of humanism, and is distinguished from other humanisms by its strong emphasis on atheism and naturalism.


eudaimonia,

Mark