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Why are SDA so paraoid of Jesuits?

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VictorC

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Dead wrong. <obvious diversion snipped>

Completely right.
You disdain Luther by rejecting his writings shown to you on two threads now.
Catholics also share this disdain, for reasons unrelated to your rejection of Luther.

You have not explained why you would appeal to Martin Luther when you have no intent to accept his writings as an authority.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Completely right.
You disdain Luther by rejecting his writings shown to you on two threads now.
Catholics also share this disdain, for reasons unrelated to your rejection of Luther.

You have not explained why you would appeal to Martin Luther when you have no intent to accept his writings as an authority.
The RCC appears to have had a slight change of heart concerning M. Luther :angel:

http://www.christianforums.com/t6980813-34/
That Martin Luther? He wasn&#8217;t so bad, says Pope

Story from the TIMESONLINE
From The Times


Pope Benedict XVI is to rehabilitate Martin Luther, arguing that he did not intend to split Christianity but only to purge the Church of corrupt practices.

Pope Benedict will issue his findings on Luther (1483-1546) in September after discussing him at his annual seminar of 40 fellow theologians &#8212; known as the Ratzinger Schülerkreis &#8212; at Castelgandolfo, the papal summer residence. According to Vatican insiders the Pope will argue that Luther, who was excommunicated and condemned for heresy, was not a heretic.

Cardinal Walter Kasper, the head of the pontifical Council for Promoting Christian Unity, said the move would help to promote ecumenical dialogue between Catholics and Protestants. It is also designed to counteract the impact of July's papal statement describing the Protestant and Orthodox faiths as defective and &#8220;not proper Churches&#8221;.

The move to re-evaluate Luther is part of a drive to soften Pope Benedict's image as an arch conservative hardliner as he approaches the third anniversary of his election next month. This week it emerged that the Vatican is planning to erect a statue of Galileo, who also faced a heresy trial, to mark the 400th anniversary next year of his discovery of the telescope.

The Pope has also reached out to the Muslim world to mend fences after his 2006 speech at Regensburg University in which he appeared to describe Islam as inherently violent and irrational. This week Muslim scholars and Vatican officials met at the pontifical Council for Inter-Religious Dialogue in Rome to begin laying the groundwork for a meeting between the Pope and leading Muslims, also expected to be held at Castelgandolfo.

Cardinal Kasper said: &#8220;We have much to learn from Luther, beginning with the importance he attached to the word of God.&#8221; It was time for a &#8220;more positive&#8221; view of Luther, whose reforms had aroused papal ire at the time but could now be seen as having &#8220;anticipated aspects of reform which the Church has adopted over time&#8221;.

The Castelgandolfo seminar will in part focus on the question of apostolic succession, through which the apostles passed on the authority they received from Jesus to the first bishops. After the Reformation Protestants took the view that &#8220;succession&#8221; referred only to God's Word and not to church hierarchies but some German scholars have suggested Luther himself did not intend this.

Luther challenged the authority of the papacy by holding that the Bible is the sole source of religious authority and made it accessible to ordinary people by translating it into the vernacular. He became convinced that the Church had lost sight of the &#8220;central truths of Christianity&#8221;, and was appalled on a visit to Rome in 1510 by the power, wealth and corruption of the papacy.

In 1517 he protested publicly against the sale of papal indulgences for the remission of sins in his &#8220;95 Theses&#8221;, nailing a copy to the door of a Wittenberg church. Some theologians argue that Luther did not intend to confront the papacy &#8220;in a doctrinaire way&#8221; but only to raise legitimate questions - a view Pope Benedict apparently shares.

Luther was excommunicated by Pope Leo X, who dismissed him initially as &#8220;a drunken German who will change his mind when sober&#8221;.
 
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Completely right.
You disdain Luther by rejecting his writings shown to you on two threads now.
Catholics also share this disdain, for reasons unrelated to your rejection of Luther.

You have not explained why you would appeal to Martin Luther when you have no intent to accept his writings as an authority.

Do you believe that the Papacy is the Antichrist that Paul described? Do you believed that Luther labeled the Papacy as the Antichrist? Do you believe in the heritage of the Protestant Reformers, who believed the Pope to be the Antichrist? Do you believe that men and women can have truth that true, but not all truth all the time?
 
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VictorC

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Do you believe that the Papacy is the Antichrist that Paul described?

Oh, this is rich! Now Paul is said to describe the papacy in the past-tense.
Words just do not ... oh, never mind. You still haven't addressed my question.

You disdain Luther by rejecting his writings shown to you on two threads now.
Catholics also share this disdain, for reasons unrelated to your rejection of Luther.

You have not explained why you would appeal to Martin Luther when you have no intent to accept his writings as an authority.
 
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MoreCoffee

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  1. Do you believe that the Papacy is the Antichrist that Paul described?
  2. Do you believed that Luther labeled the Papacy as the Antichrist?
  3. Do you believe in the heritage of the Protestant Reformers, who believed the Pope to be the Antichrist?
  4. Do you believe that men and women can have truth that [is] true, but not all truth all the time?

  1. No.
  2. Yes, though I think he was more inclined to label the popes of his time rather than the papacy in the abstract.
  3. No.
  4. Yes, the same goes for error. Seventh Day Adventism has truth and error. We (Catholics) don't condemn you for being in a system that is a mixture of truth and error.
 
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ChristOurCaptain

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Completely right.
You disdain Luther by rejecting his writings shown to you on two threads now.
Catholics also share this disdain, for reasons unrelated to your rejection of Luther.

You have not explained why you would appeal to Martin Luther when you have no intent to accept his writings as an authority.

Just for the record: Luther's writings are NOT authorities in and of themselves. They are authorities ONLY so far as they are in accordance with Scripture. Luther himself would be the first to point this out.
 
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VictorC

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Just for the record: Luther's writings are NOT authorities in and of themselves. They are authorities ONLY so far as they are in accordance with Scripture. Luther himself would be the first to point this out.

You missed my point, easily done with the plethora of posts GfG incurs.
A Lutheran would respect a quote from Luther as an authority on some level, not equating Luther's comments with Scripture.
Where GfG quoted Luther, the intended target isn't a Lutheran.
GfG is documented as rejecting something very clear from Luther, showing that he doesn't regard Luther as an authority on any level.

It begs the question of why bother to quote someone as an appeal to an external authority when neither party involved accepts what he wrote?
 
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Oh, this is rich! Now Paul is said to describe the papacy in the past-tense.
Words just do not ... oh, never mind. You still haven't addressed my question.

You disdain Luther by rejecting his writings shown to you on two threads now.
Catholics also share this disdain, for reasons unrelated to your rejection of Luther.

You have not explained why you would appeal to Martin Luther when you have no intent to accept his writings as an authority.

Your spin goes against the majority of the Reformers of the 16th century. They viewed the Papacy as the Antichrist, including Martin Luther! Regarding Luther, no one is perfect. Luther was wrong regarding the Sabbath, but he was right regarding who was the Antichrist. Commonsense.
 
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MoreCoffee

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Oh, and before I forget. I WANT ALL CF MEMBERS TO KNOW THAT I HAVE CALLED OUT "VICTORC" TO POST HIS CHURCHE'S NAME, AND ITS DOCTRINES AND BELIEFS. HE HAS FULL ACCESS TO THE SDA DOCTRINES ON OUR WEBSITE. BUT, HE HIDES IN A CLOAK OF SECRECY WHAT HIS CHURCH BELIEVES.

But VictorC isn't accusing 1.2 billion people of being dupes of the anti-christ as you are.
 
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VictorC

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Your spin goes against the majority of the Reformers of the 16th century. They viewed the Papacy as the Antichrist, including Martin Luther! Regarding Luther, no one is perfect. Luther was wrong regarding the Sabbath, but he was right regarding who was the Antichrist. Commonsense.

Luther's comments regarding the sabbath are easily meshed with the passage of Scripture he comments on, in this case Galatians 4:10. He was also consistent with the entire epistle, which delves into details regarding the covenant from Mount Sinai the sabbath relies on.

No one claims that Martin Luther was/is perfect.

However, you appealed to him as an external authority, and even here claim that Martin Luther was 'wrong'. That is a prime example of contradiction on your personal level, and you still fail to explain why you appealed to Luther as your external authority.
 
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rockytopva

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I find the seven churches as seven movements that would arise in time

1. Ephesus - Apostolic church
2. Smyrna - Martyrs church - 10 days equals 10 Roman persecutions
3. Pergamos -Orthodoxy - Pygros is a fortified structure, needed for the dark ages.
4. Thyatira -Catholic - The spirit of Jezebel is to control and dominate.
***Note - This spirit can invade any church
5. Sardis- Protestant - Doctrine in the head, little in the heart
6. Philadelphia - Methodist/Moravian - You got sanctified with a brotherly love and a sweet spirit.
7. Laodicea - Rich and increased with goods and have need of nothing?

I was born, strangely enough, into this word via a Pentecostal mother and a Catholic dad at the Marine Corp base in Camp Lejeune, NC. And then, strangely enough, they brought me up in a sardisean Baptist church. By the time I was a teenager I was convinced...

1. That speaking of tongues was of the devil
2. That all Catholics are going to hell

The sardisean church is bad about this. They develop mental doctrine that makes them superior to all others. It is too bad that they don't realize, that on a spiritual level, that they are as bad as everyone else.

When the Spirit of God came into my heart in my mothers country I began to attend Pentecostal Holiness church, which taught sanctification the Methodist way, with a sweet spirit. The first thing I noticed was that none of the preaching put down other denominations or Christian faiths.

My dad dates a Lutheran gal who swares up and down that only Lutherans will enter heaven... Which is typical of the sardisean mindset.


 
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VictorC

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Oh, and before I forget. I WANT ALL CF MEMBERS TO KNOW THAT I HAVE CALLED OUT "VICTORC" TO POST HIS CHURCHE'S NAME, AND ITS DOCTRINES AND BELIEFS. HE HAS FULL ACCESS TO THE SDA DOCTRINES ON OUR WEBSITE. BUT, HE HIDES IN A CLOAK OF SECRECY WHAT HIS CHURCH BELIEVES.

This is the fifth instance of this logical fallacy of argumentum ad hominem that was addressed long ago on another thread. Appealing to a logical fallacy demonstrates an abject inability to address the subject matter placed before this member. This includes a recent post filled with material from the White Estate he has repeatedly run away from. Yet my post clearly shows that the material he writes is inspired by Ellen White, and not the Bible.

Logical fallacies are all GfG has to offer. I'm certain I'm not the only one who has noticed this.

Most people who have conversed with me know that I prefer the structure of the local assembly over formal denominations, which is the reality in the rural location I live in. We have three church assemblies near us to choose from, and all of them are non-denominational. This is consistent with my personal ambition to appeal to the unity of the faith, and not divisions that I consider harmful.
 
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MoreCoffee

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This is the fifth instance of this logical fallacy of argumentum ad hominem that was addressed long ago on another thread. Appealing to a logical fallacy demonstrates an abject inability to address the subject matter placed before this member. This includes a recent post filled with material from the White Estate he has repeatedly run away from. Yet my post clearly shows that the material he writes is inspired by Ellen White, and not the Bible.

Logical fallacies are all GfG has to offer. I'm certain I'm not the only one who has noticed this.

Most people who have conversed with me know that I prefer the structure of the local assembly over formal denominations, which is the reality in the rural location I live in. We have three church assemblies near us to choose from, and all of them are non-denominational. This is consistent with my personal ambition to appeal to the unity of the faith, and not divisions that I consider harmful.

May I make a few observations
  • Seventh Day Adventism is, as you and others have observed, in a state of transition and what it will become nobody can say with certainty. There are at least two (and probably more than two) movements in the denomination; the first is to adhere tightly to the 'prophetic teaching' of Ellen White, the other is to relegate Ellen White's writings to the same category that any other earthly religious writings occupy. So, it is quite difficult to treat adventism as if it were monolithic and it is difficult to form clear ideas about what advintism teaches.
  • In GT logic seems to count for very little with many members.
  • Expressing opinions about the teaching of any group of which one is not a member is fraught with difficulty, even quoting from official sources can be treacherous because it can be very hard to know what is official and what is not. So, on the whole, it is best to ask questions of those who are members of a religious group and let them answer rather than attempting to tell them what they believe or what their denomination or church teaches.
 
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MoreCoffee

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My parish's priest never makes negative comments about any other Christian group. It's good. I prefer it that way.

I find the seven churches as seven movements that would arise in time

...

I was born, strangely enough, into this word via a Pentecostal mother and a Catholic dad at the Marine Corp base in Camp Lejeune, NC. And then, strangely enough, they brought me up in a sardisean Baptist church. By the time I was a teenager I was convinced...

1. That speaking of tongues was of the devil
2. That all Catholics are going to hell

The sardisean church is bad about this. They develop mental doctrine that makes them superior to all others. It is too bad that they don't realize, that on a spiritual level, that they are as bad as everyone else.

When the Spirit of God came into my heart in my mothers country I began to attend Pentecostal Holiness church, which taught sanctification the Methodist way, with a sweet spirit. The first thing I noticed was that none of the preaching put down other denominations or Christian faiths.

My dad dates a Lutheran gal who swares up and down that only Lutherans will enter heaven... Which is typical of the sardisean mindset.
 
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