• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

That Martin Luther? He wasn’t so bad, says Pope

S

SaintFrancis

Guest
Story from the TIMESONLINE
From The Times

March 6, 2008



Pope Benedict XVI is to rehabilitate Martin Luther, arguing that he did not intend to split Christianity but only to purge the Church of corrupt practices.

Pope Benedict will issue his findings on Luther (1483-1546) in September after discussing him at his annual seminar of 40 fellow theologians — known as the Ratzinger Schülerkreis — at Castelgandolfo, the papal summer residence. According to Vatican insiders the Pope will argue that Luther, who was excommunicated and condemned for heresy, was not a heretic.

Cardinal Walter Kasper, the head of the pontifical Council for Promoting Christian Unity, said the move would help to promote ecumenical dialogue between Catholics and Protestants. It is also designed to counteract the impact of July's papal statement describing the Protestant and Orthodox faiths as defective and “not proper Churches”.

The move to re-evaluate Luther is part of a drive to soften Pope Benedict's image as an arch conservative hardliner as he approaches the third anniversary of his election next month. This week it emerged that the Vatican is planning to erect a statue of Galileo, who also faced a heresy trial, to mark the 400th anniversary next year of his discovery of the telescope.

The Pope has also reached out to the Muslim world to mend fences after his 2006 speech at Regensburg University in which he appeared to describe Islam as inherently violent and irrational. This week Muslim scholars and Vatican officials met at the pontifical Council for Inter-Religious Dialogue in Rome to begin laying the groundwork for a meeting between the Pope and leading Muslims, also expected to be held at Castelgandolfo.

Cardinal Kasper said: “We have much to learn from Luther, beginning with the importance he attached to the word of God.” It was time for a “more positive” view of Luther, whose reforms had aroused papal ire at the time but could now be seen as having “anticipated aspects of reform which the Church has adopted over time”.

The Castelgandolfo seminar will in part focus on the question of apostolic succession, through which the apostles passed on the authority they received from Jesus to the first bishops. After the Reformation Protestants took the view that “succession” referred only to God's Word and not to church hierarchies but some German scholars have suggested Luther himself did not intend this.

Luther challenged the authority of the papacy by holding that the Bible is the sole source of religious authority and made it accessible to ordinary people by translating it into the vernacular. He became convinced that the Church had lost sight of the “central truths of Christianity”, and was appalled on a visit to Rome in 1510 by the power, wealth and corruption of the papacy.

In 1517 he protested publicly against the sale of papal indulgences for the remission of sins in his “95 Theses”, nailing a copy to the door of a Wittenberg church. Some theologians argue that Luther did not intend to confront the papacy “in a doctrinaire way” but only to raise legitimate questions - a view Pope Benedict apparently shares.

Luther was excommunicated by Pope Leo X, who dismissed him initially as “a drunken German who will change his mind when sober”.
 
S

SpiritualAntiseptic

Guest
Luther is a perfect example of how you can take a legitimate complaint about the Church and go way to far with it. It is an example of because so passionate about something you go off the deep end.

He could be a hero to Catholics had he not let his pride get in the way. Not all people who are called to be great saints within Christianity fulfill their destiny. *shrug* It's sad.
 
Upvote 0

squint

Well-Known Member
Jul 23, 2007
16,182
903
Mountain Regions
✟20,405.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Luther is a perfect example of how you can take a legitimate complaint about the Church and go way to far with it. It is an example of because so passionate about something you go off the deep end.

He could be a hero to Catholics had he not let his pride get in the way. Not all people who are called to be great saints within Christianity fulfill their destiny. *shrug* It's sad.

Luther posted his complaints to bring the specifics to the MASSES..."because" to get ANY of the complaints aired through the RCC's "authoritative(?)" bureaucracy would have taken CENTURIES...of WRANGLINGS...
(read as...FAT CHANCE.)
 
Upvote 0
S

SpiritualAntiseptic

Guest
Luther posted his complaints to bring the specifics to the MASSES..."because" to get ANY of the complaints aired through the RCC's "authoritative(?)" bureaucracy would have taken CENTURIES...of WRANGLINGS...
(read as...FAT CHANCE.)

That's not my complaint really. He started making up new doctrines and attacked the foundation of the Church itself.
 
Upvote 0

tulc

loves "SO'S YER MOM!! posts!
May 18, 2002
49,401
18,804
69
✟286,600.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
He could be a hero to Catholics had he not let his pride get in the way. Not all people who are called to be great saints within Christianity fulfill their destiny. *shrug* It's sad.

Yeah. :(
uhmmm sad that he had to go so far, or that it took the RCC almost 500 years to realize it? :scratch:
tulc(just curious) :)
 
Upvote 0

HisWordisTruth7

Regular Member
Mar 11, 2007
304
46
✟23,116.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
What do you mean?:scratch:
(for the record, I like Martin Luther - I pray for him often)

I am sorta curios why you would do that, nothing bad about prayer, but what's done is done on ce we we leave this earth.... I mean our rewards or lack of then will be decided by what we did on the earth for the Lord...There is plenty of scripture to back that up...peace to you
 
Upvote 0

Assisi

not a sissy
Sep 7, 2006
4,155
463
Sydney
✟29,280.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
I am sorta curios why you would do that, nothing bad about prayer, but what's done is done on ce we we leave this earth.... I mean our rewards or lack of then will be decided by what we did on the earth for the Lord...There is plenty of scripture to back that up...peace to you

Obviously we both believe it's good to pray for people. And I agree with you when you say 'what's done is done once we we leave this earth', we are headed one way or the other and it's irrevocable. How do I know which way Luther, or any other person, left this life? I can't. But God is outside of time, I pray that his heart was set on the Lord and that he is headed to heaven.:thumbsup: I don't believe I can change his direction after his death through my prayers, but I believe that God can hear my prayer for the past no matter how 'late' it is.

I also believe in a purgation of those souls who are saved before entering heaven (I believe there is Scripture to back this view), I pray for these people too because I like to be prayed for when I am being purified in this life. When God is 'refining' me (cf Mal3) it's hard work.
 
Upvote 0

HisWordisTruth7

Regular Member
Mar 11, 2007
304
46
✟23,116.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Obviously we both believe it's good to pray for people. And I agree with you when you say 'what's done is done once we we leave this earth', we are headed one way or the other and it's irrevocable. How do I know which way Luther, or any other person, left this life? I can't. But God is outside of time, I pray that his heart was set on the Lord and that he is headed to heaven.:thumbsup: I don't believe I can change his direction after his death through my prayers, but I believe that God can hear my prayer for the past no matter how 'late' it is.

I also believe in a purgation of those souls who are saved before entering heaven (I believe there is Scripture to back this view), I pray for these people too.


Okay..I won't mess with the purgatory..Bless ya Sis...BTW your looking a little pale..
 
Upvote 0

squint

Well-Known Member
Jul 23, 2007
16,182
903
Mountain Regions
✟20,405.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
What do you mean?:scratch:
(for the record, I like Martin Luther - I pray for him often)

Perhaps you missed the RCC's past pronouncements for heretics???

From the Catholic Encyclopedia:

Benedict XIV (1740-58--De Synodo dioecesana X, i) cites the anathema maranatha formulated by the Fathers of the Fourth Council of Toledo against those who were guilty of the crime of high treason: "He who dares to despise our decision, let him be stricken with anathema maranatha, i.e. may he be damned at the coming of the Lord, may he have his place with Judas Iscariot, he and his companions. Amen."

Isn't THAT just sweet?
 
Upvote 0

squint

Well-Known Member
Jul 23, 2007
16,182
903
Mountain Regions
✟20,405.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Upvote 0

Assisi

not a sissy
Sep 7, 2006
4,155
463
Sydney
✟29,280.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Okay..I won't mess with the purgatory..Bless ya Sis...BTW your looking a little pale..

Actually, I'm a CF character fashion victim.:blush: I'm being an emo.:cool: irl I look quite different.

Perhaps you missed the RCC's past pronouncements for heretics???

From the Catholic Encyclopedia:
Where in the Catholic Encyclopedia? I went to the pages linked and that phrase is not from them. (Also of interest, the word 'damned' does not appear on Judas Iscariot's page;))

And what has this got to do with 'spinning the ones we like'?
 
Upvote 0

LonesomeTexan

Veteran
Jun 24, 2007
3,855
92
36
North of Houston
✟26,904.00
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Tragic. The pope tries to reconcile with protestants and Catholics and Protestants get divise and defensive with each other.

Personally as a Protestant with Lutheran demoninational leanings, I think the whole Catholic vs. Protestant thing is completely stupid. We all believe in the Nicene creed. Everything outside of that is up to personal convictions.
 
Upvote 0