Mar 22: they are at it again

[Strong in Him]

Yes, Jesus was answering the disciples questions. The first one was, "when will the Temple buildings be left with not one stone upon another?" Jesus' answer was the abomination of desolation.

In that case that was before 70AD.

The next question was, "what is the sign of your coming and the end of the age? Jesus' answer was that the great tribulation that began with the abomination of desolation 91st century) will be cut short, immediately followed by the events of the 6th seal. He said the false christ/false prophet will arise with false miracles and he will come on the clouds to destroy.

The 6th seal is mentioned in verse 29, "immediately after the tribulation of those days" is cut short, then the sun is darkened, the moon is darkened and the stars fall. That's the 6th seal!

Yes, I'm not denying that this is what is written in Scripture. But it doesn't make a lot of sense, tbh, and I'm not sure if they actually said it.
Think about it; the disciples didn't even understand that Jesus was going to die and rise again. How and why would they have talked about his return to earth when he hadn't yet left them? How do we know that by "end of the age" they didn't mean "end of THIS age" - ie when the temple is destroyed?

Jesus' answer was that the great tribulation that began with the abomination of desolation 91st century) will be cut short, immediately followed by the events of the 6th seal.

The 6th seal isn't mentioned at all in Matt 24; the disciples would not have heard him mention the 6th seal. If we, or people in other countries, had only the Gospels to read, they would not find out anything about sels. They are not mentioned until the book of revelation.

The 6th seal is mentioned in verse 29, "immediately after the tribulation of those days" is cut short, then the sun is darkened, the moon is darkened and the stars fall. That's the 6th seal!

It's your interpretation, and belief, that this is the 6th seal - it doesn't say so.

 

[Marantha]

I believe we should focus on the TIME AT HAND. I am watching. The beginning of the reign on the a/c and the last 3 1/2 years, 1260 days, or time, times, and a half.

Look at the FOREST instead of the TREES.

The most incredible time since Christ walked the earth, died, and ROSE again; is almost here.

Let's pay attention to the TIMES


Come Lord Jesus
Marantha

 

[ptomwebster]

My response to the March 22 thing going around:

What part of "but of that day and hour knoweth NO MAN, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only" don't people understand?

Jesus Himself said He didn't know.

So somebody out there knows better than Jesus? Ha! Fat chance...

He said the day and hour nobody will know... the year and the month, however, can most certainly be narrowed down and I do believe we're going to see it happen very, very, VERY soon.

We can certainly figure out the approximate time, but there's no way anybody on this screwed up earth is figuring out the actual day...

The only way we'll know is when it's already happening.

jd, you really need to look up the meaning of the Greek word "knoweth" in that verse. We can learn the day and the hour through study.

 

[Strong in Him]

1. Devil cast down:

Rev 12:
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

The devil was cast down to earth right at the beginning - before, or maybe just after, the world was created. He the appeared in the Garden of Eden in the form of a serpent and managed to turn humans - God's creation - away from God. He has not been in heaven since. If you read the first two chapters of the book of Job; God summoned the devil to appear before him, asled him what he had been doing and the devil said he had been roaming the earth. (Job 1:6-7) It is thought that the book of Job may be older than the book of Genesis.

 

[Bethwhite]

In that case that was before 70AD.




Yes, I'm not denying that this is what is written in Scripture. But it doesn't make a lot of sense, tbh, and I'm not sure if they actually said it.
Think about it; the disciples didn't even understand that Jesus was going to die and rise again. How and why would they have talked about his return to earth when he hadn't yet left them? How do we know that by "end of the age" they didn't mean "end of THIS age" - ie when the temple is destroyed?



The 6th seal isn't mentioned at all in Matt 24; the disciples would not have heard him mention the 6th seal. If we, or people in other countries, had only the Gospels to read, they would not find out anything about sels. They are not mentioned until the book of revelation.



It's your interpretation, and belief, that this is the 6th seal - it doesn't say so.

In fact, Revelation hadn't been given yet when Jesus said those words.

That proves just how true Revelation is!

I don't know what your complaint is.

Jesus answered the disciples questions. We know, from our perspective, that his answer is a 2000 year time frame.

 

[dysert]

My response to the March 22 thing going around:

What part of "but of that day and hour knoweth NO MAN, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only" don't people understand?

Jesus Himself said He didn't know.

So somebody out there knows better than Jesus? Ha! Fat chance...

He said the day and hour nobody will know... the year and the month, however, can most certainly be narrowed down and I do believe we're going to see it happen very, very, VERY soon.

We can certainly figure out the approximate time, but there's no way anybody on this screwed up earth is figuring out the actual day...

The only way we'll know is when it's already happening.

Marantha's Daniel video explains this by saying that the day & hour that no one knows is related to when heaven & earth pass away (from the previous verse). The verses in question are Matt. 24:35-36:

Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away.
But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but My Father only.​

So again, the video guy says no one knows the day and hour of when heaven and earth will pass away. Pretty slick, eh?

 

[Strong in Him]

In fact, Revelation hadn't been given yet when Jesus said those words.

Well exactly.
So the disciples would not have heard his words and thought "ah, the 6th seal". Nor would the communities that Matthew wrote to have read that and thought, "Jesus is talking about the 6th seal."
So if Jesus didn't mention it, and Matthew wasn't refering to it when he wrote his Gospel, how do we KNOW that Matt 24:29 is the 6th seal? It can only be because people have since decided that it must be because it fits their particular view of end times

I don't know what your complaint is.

I'm saying that you can't teach Matt 24 by referring to Revelation; a book which, by your own admission, hadn't been written then.

Jesus answered the disciples questions. We know, from our perspective, that his answer is a 2000 year time frame.

HOW do we know? Much, if not all, of Matt 24 refers to the destruction of the temple - this event has already happend; prophecy fulfilled.

 

[ptomwebster]

Marantha's Daniel video explains this by saying that the day & hour that no one knows is related to when heaven & earth pass away (from the previous verse). The verses in question are Matt. 24:35-36:

Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away.
​

But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but My Father only.
​

So again, the video guy says no one knows the day and hour of when heaven and earth will pass away. Pretty slick, eh?

We can learn the day and the hour through study.

 

[Strong in Him]

We can learn the day and the hour through study.

Sorry, I don't believe that.
If Jesus said, "no one knows the day or the hour, only the Father", then that's what he meant.

If he'd wanted us to know he would have told us plainly.
At his ascension, his own disciples asked him if this was when he was going to restore the kingdom, and Jesus replied "it is not for you to know the times or dates set by my Father" (Acts 1:7) "BUT ........ go and be my witnesses".

Why humans feel that they know better than Jesus?

 

[Jon David]

We can learn the day and the hour through study.

And when that guess fails, we can then hem and haw, make excuses, perhaps even register under a different forum name and make up a new date, starting the whole process all over again.

No matter how you try to twist the context, the Word is clear--we don't know.

Jesus said He will appear at a time "we think not" (Luke 12:40). Clear, cut, and dry.

As I said before, we can narrow down an approximate time frame concerning the month and year.

I'm not going to touch the day or hour though.

Jesus Himself doesn't know, and being that the servant IS NOT greater than the master (Matthew 10:24), I'm not even going to think about going down that road.

But hey, if you want to keep playing these Rapture reindeer games that's on you.

Marantha's Daniel video explains this by saying that the day & hour that no one knows is related to when heaven & earth pass away (from the previous verse). The verses in question are Matt. 24:35-36:

Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away.
But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but My Father only.​

So again, the video guy says no one knows the day and hour of when heaven and earth will pass away. Pretty slick, eh?

Sure, why not? Taking Scripture out of context certainly seems to be a tried and true tactic.

 

[hiscosmicgoldfish]

Sorry, I don't believe that.
If Jesus said, "no one knows the day or the hour, only the Father", then that's what he meant.

so whats the point of all that in daniel? Jesus didnt know because he hadnt got the dates for the foundation of modern israel, or the six day war, and he didn't have a mega-computer to predict the various eclipses.
the prophesies of daniel were sealed up until the last days.. now, so we can now unseal and find out when Jesus is returning.

 

[Bethwhite]

Well exactly.
So the disciples would not have heard his words and thought "ah, the 6th seal". Nor would the communities that Matthew wrote to have read that and thought, "Jesus is talking about the 6th seal."
So if Jesus didn't mention it, and Matthew wasn't refering to it when he wrote his Gospel, how do we KNOW that Matt 24:29 is the 6th seal? It can only be because people have since decided that it must be because it fits their particular view of end times



I'm saying that you can't teach Matt 24 by referring to Revelation; a book which, by your own admission, hadn't been written then.



HOW do we know? Much, if not all, of Matt 24 refers to the destruction of the temple - this event has already happend; prophecy fulfilled.

Jesus was speaking of the future from his perspective in the 1st century, and it was written in the prophets. Revelation is a prophecy as well; one that puts everything in order. The moment when the sun is darkened, moon is darkened, stars fall is written in the prophets. Revelation is just one more confirmation prophecy - but it is labeled/ordered. That moment in Revelation is at the 6th seal.

Immediately after the tribulation of those days is cut short, the sun is darkened, etc - that's the 6th seal!

That same moment in time is found in Joel, Isaiah, Amos, Matt, and Rev.

 

[ptomwebster]

And when that guess fails, we can then hem and haw, make excuses, perhaps even register under a different forum name and make up a new date, starting the whole process all over again.

No matter how you try to twist the context, the Word is clear--we don't know.

Jesus said He will appear at a time "we think not" (Luke 12:40). Clear, cut, and dry.

As I said before, we can narrow down an approximate time frame concerning the month and year.

I'm not going to touch the day or hour though.

Jesus Himself doesn't know, and being that the servant IS NOT greater than the master (Matthew 10:24), I'm not even going to think about going down that road.

But hey, if you want to keep playing these Rapture reindeer games that's on you....

True, you will not know.

Mar_13:23 But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things.

There is no rapture.


==

"strong" It is not dependent on your believing it or not, it's the meaning of the Greek word used in the text.

 

[Bethwhite]

True, you will not know.

Mar_13:23 But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things.

There is no rapture.

Yes, there is.

Psalm 50,
Song of Solomon 2
Isaiah 26
John 14
John 11
1 Thess 4-5
1 Cor 15
Rev 7
Rev 12

 

[Jon David]

Yes, there is.

Psalm 50,
Song of Solomon 2
Isaiah 26
John 14
John 11
1 Thess 4-5
1 Cor 15
Rev 7
Rev 12

There ya go. Couldn't have said it better myself, thanks.

 

[Bethwhite]

When it's midnight in Israel, it's 6pm on the previous day in New York, 3 pm on the previous day in California.

In parable, Jesus said there was a cry at "midnight" when the Bridegroom comes.

Matt 25:6 And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.

Be ready - where ever you live.

 

[ptomwebster]

Yes, there is.

Psalm 50,
Song of Solomon 2
Isaiah 26
John 14
John 11
1 Thess 4-5
1 Cor 15
Rev 7
Rev 12

I have covered those verses many times; if you want to pretend they are about your rapture go right ahead I'm not going to try to stop you.

Jon, are you going with them on Friday? Or maybe Beth will stop by later and pick you up.

 

[Bethwhite]

I have covered those verses many times; if you want to pretend they are about your rapture go right ahead I'm not going to try to stop you.

Jon, are you going with them on Friday? Or maybe Beth will stop by later and pick you up.

Gee, a resurrection, change to immortality and gathering to heaven when God appears in the sky - yeah, I'm going to believe what God said.

 

[Zanting]

The only way those scriptures can say what you mean is if you ADD meaning to them because they don't reveal that to me at all. I'm very happy being one of Gods children, secure that He guides me in thought and deed, knowing He will be there for me whenever I need Him, and ready when He calls me home.

 

[Bethwhite]

The only way those scriptures can say what you mean is if you ADD meaning to them because they don't reveal that to me at all. I'm very happy being one of Gods children, secure that He guides me in thought and deed, knowing He will be there for me whenever I need Him, and ready when He calls me home.

If God's Spirit is guiding you, then you will understand this:

Psalm 50:The mighty God, even the Lord, hath spoken, and called the earth from the rising of the sun unto the going down thereof. 2 Out of Zion, the perfection of beauty, God hath shined.
3 Our God shall come, and shall not keep silence: a fire shall devour before him, and it shall be very tempestuous round about him.
4 He shall call to the heavens from above, and to the earth, that he may judge his people.
5 Gather my saints together unto me; those that have made a covenant with me by sacrifice.
6 And the heavens shall declare his righteousness: for God is judge himself.