[Everyone's] favorite topic: Solipsism...

[Solitary Refinement]

Hello. I'm new here. I am a Solipsist. Or...at least I think that I am. I know this topic drives a lot of [people] mad, but I will take a chance for the sake of curiosity, and possibly clarity.

Please excuse me while I elaborate on what kind of ideas I hold. First off, I am not entirely sure of much of anything, so it might be more accurate to say that I have one foot in than to say I'm a full Solipsist.

For [those] who don't know, solipsism is a position of philosophy which claims that I am all that exists. That is, the self is the only real substance in the world. All other people and things are mere illusions produced by the mind of the one that exists.

Now, that is not exactly what I think. I am open to the possibility that two things exist: myself and God. God would be the one producing the world in my head for me to live in. This seems likely to me because it does not seem like my mind is anywhere powerful enough to produce all of these illusions.

If this is so, then it raises a question. What is the purpose of creating this illusion of a world? Well, as I go through this life, I often get the feeling that I'm being tortured. I've been struggling with depression for too many years to remember now. Even activities that should be enjoyable can make me feel worse. I constantly feel ignored by [people], like I'm invisible, except for when I actually want to be unnoticed. Nothing ever goes as I plan it. Various little inconveniences culminate daily to drive me insane. Many events give me hope, only to cause me disappointment in the end.

But if God wanted to torture me, couldn't He do better? Why not make me one of the starving in Africa, with no roof over my head, no clean water supply, and in a constant struggle to feed myself and my family? Perhaps it's because this God knows there is an art to this. Torture a person too much, they might give up. Torture them just enough, you give them a false hope. It also makes it possible for [others] to criticize me for the way I feel because there are [people] in worse situations than myself.

The condition of my life is also a reason why I doubt I'm the one who invented this world. Why would I do this to myself? Maybe having it too good would make it all the more obvious that I'm living in a dream world. And like was explained in the original Matrix, pain and suffering are what make [us] feel alive. Still, I would like my life to be a little better. Would it be worse to know that I'm alone in this world, or to live a life of depression and anger? Obviously, if I'm thinking about it, suffering has failed to stop me from coming to the realization anyway.

So, no. I do not think it is the case that I am the one who made this world. But I also don't think that the many clues in my life that this world isn't real can be complete coincidence. So two seems likely to me.

What about the real life application for this? This is a question I keep asking myself, and the answer seems to be: absolutely freaking nothing. What could I possibly do with the knowledge? Can I gain control of the world? Can I blink and make a red car turn blue? Hasn't worked for me yet. I'm at the mercy of the power that is producing all of the sensations in my mind.

Whether I'm right or wrong, I still have to live my life the same way anyhow. Can I stop eating because the food, and my need of it, are not real? Only if I don't mind the unpleasant feelings of hunger that would result from it. I even have to treat the characters in this world as if they were real people, because I have such a strong dependence on them. I can't even write for very long without using language to suggest that other people do exist. The assumption that the people around me are real is so far ingrained into my head that I can't completely get rid of it, and it would be too inconvenient to do so anyway.

So, if all of this is just in my head, what's the point of posting here? Well, I guess I'm hoping for some additional insight. After all, all the knowledge about the world that I've ever obtained came from interacting with it. I'm also somewhat curious about how [you people] will react to being told [you] might not exist. I'm hoping that rude comments and flamming will be kept to a minimum.

Ask questions, tell me what [you] think, do [your] thing. And just in case [you] really do exist, thank [you] for your time.

 

[Mr. Pedantic]

What evidence do you have that yours is the only existence that is real?

 

[Solitary Refinement]

What evidence do you have that yours is the only existence that is real?

Perhaps there are other little bubbles, worlds created by God for others to live in. But if this is the case, it affects me none. Interesting possibility, yes. Should I care? Probably not.

 

[Mr. Pedantic]

Perhaps there are other little bubbles, worlds created by God for others to live in. But if this is the case, it affects me none. Interesting possibility, yes. Should I care? Probably not.

If you have no evidence, why should you believe it?

 

[Solitary Refinement]

If you have no evidence, why should you believe it?

Are we talking about evidence for the non-existence of people in my world, or the possibility of the existence of other worlds for people to live in isolation?

 

[metherion]

This actually piques my curiosity somewhat.

I have a few questions.

First, I am curious as to what led you to your self-described 'one foot in' Solipsistic views.

Second, I am curious at to how exactly you would view any input you get from this forum. Do you view it as querying your own subconscious, or something of the sort?

Or, since you're open to the viewpoint that some god might exist aside from you to cause the illusion, are you worried this might be just an outlet of hope in the torture you suspect may be the case?

Thirdly, is there anything that might convince you that another person exists? Say, for example, myself. Is there a particular hoop I might jump through to convince you of my own existence, or to prove it without a doubt?

Fourthly, I am curious as to your viewpoint on discoveries and knowledge. If you are the only being who exists, where would everything you DON"T know about be coming from? As a matter of fact, where would you have come from? If you are the only person that exists, obviously your parents don't actually exist. By the way, if your parents have died, I apologize if that came across as insensitive.

On the other hand, I suppose your existence would be more of an argument for a second being existing, to bring you into existence as the only other one for a time. Interesting thought.

Anyways.

Fifthly, I am curious about Mr. Pedantic's question, presuming the answer to the question you posed in posted #5 is "The evidence for the non-existence of people in my world." This may certainly somewhat overlap with my first question.

Lastly, I will happily take "I don't know" as an answer to any of these, but I would prefer actual answers.

Thank you.

Metherion

 

[Mr. Pedantic]

Are we talking about evidence for the non-existence of people in my world, or the possibility of the existence of other worlds for people to live in isolation?

The first one.

I guess it depends on what your baseline assumptions about the world are.

 

[Paradoxum]

Now, that is not exactly what I think. I am open to the possibility that two things exist: myself and God. God would be the one producing the world in my head for me to live in. This seems likely to me because it does not seem like my mind is anywhere powerful enough to produce all of these illusions.

Well most of your mind could be unconscious.

If this is so, then it raises a question. What is the purpose of creating this illusion of a world? Well, as I go through this life, I often get the feeling that I'm being tortured. I've been struggling with depression for too many years to remember now. Even activities that should be enjoyable can make me feel worse. I constantly feel ignored by [people], like I'm invisible, except for when I actually want to be unnoticed. Nothing ever goes as I plan it. Various little inconveniences culminate daily to drive me insane. Many events give me hope, only to cause me disappointment in the end.

But if God wanted to torture me, couldn't He do better? Why not make me one of the starving in Africa, with no roof over my head, no clean water supply, and in a constant struggle to feed myself and my family? Perhaps it's because this God knows there is an art to this. Torture a person too much, they might give up. Torture them just enough, you give them a false hope. It also makes it possible for [others] to criticize me for the way I feel because there are [people] in worse situations than myself.

I'm sorry to hear that you are finding things hard. At least... that is what I was programmed to say by the Architect.

If it helps, us non-existent ones sometimes feel ignored. 'Feel' is what you call it anyway.

So, no. I do not think it is the case that I am the one who made this world. But I also don't think that the many clues in my life that this world isn't real can be complete coincidence. So two seems likely to me.

What clues did the Artist leave to your isolate existence?

What about the real life application for this? This is a question I keep asking myself, and the answer seems to be: absolutely freaking nothing. What could I possibly do with the knowledge? Can I gain control of the world? Can I blink and make a red car turn blue? Hasn't worked for me yet. I'm at the mercy of the power that is producing all of the sensations in my mind.

Whether I'm right or wrong, I still have to live my life the same way anyhow. Can I stop eating because the food, and my need of it, are not real? Only if I don't mind the unpleasant feelings of hunger that would result from it. I even have to treat the characters in this world as if they were real people, because I have such a strong dependence on them. I can't even write for very long without using language to suggest that other people do exist. The assumption that the people around me are real is so far ingrained into my head that I can't completely get rid of it, and it would be too inconvenient to do so anyway.

The perfect system. *Praise the system*

So, if all of this is just in my head, what's the point of posting here? Well, I guess I'm hoping for some additional insight. After all, all the knowledge about the world that I've ever obtained came from interacting with it. I'm also somewhat curious about how [you people] will react to being told [you] might not exist. I'm hoping that rude comments and flamming will be kept to a minimum.

Do you hope that the system wants to reveal itself to you?

Being an agent of the Writer it is no surprise that I'm not like you. We are here to provide you with reason to accept your world by pretending the system wouldn't reveal this to you.

On the other hand I could just be a girl having fun. Or, I could be a minor manifestation of the Consciousness and not yet have realised it.

How do you feel about my reply?

Ask questions, tell me what [you] think, do [your] thing. And just in case [you] really do exist, thank [you] for your time.

I don't think you are the only one who exists. But perhaps I would say that.

 

[Rick Otto]

Hmmm...,
I had to look up solopsism.
It looks at first glance to depend upon a confusion of identity issues.
And so I would diagnose your condition of 'general malaise' to "dimensional disorientation".
Deja vu wasn't realy the clue to a glitch, it was "cognitive dissonance". And at a party, an experience of that in a moment of sensitivity, maybe even hyper-sensitivity to its disorienting effect, can provoke a reaction of alienation & isolation.

I think God found the perfect way to torture you. Give you a conscience in a body & world that is callous & self serving. In Africa, conditions of brutality don't afford conscience as much influence as here where water & electricity flow.

So as far as if only your mind exists... I wonder if you would consider suicide as an acceptable illusion to opt for if the illusions of your current circumstance suddenly went horrific. Power perceived is power achieved, so illusions aren't worthless or meaningless. They speak of what is behind them. And if they originate in your mind, your mind is trying to tell you something.

I know what you mean about witholding full committment to any philosopjical position. They are all just positions. I think they as positions represent a facet or dimension of ourselves whether that part is active or latent more or less. In identifying ourselves, the pure can become enemy of good.

 

[variant]

For [those] who don't know, solipsism is a position of philosophy which claims that I am all that exists. That is, the self is the only real substance in the world. All other people and things are mere illusions produced by the mind of the one that exists.

The reason you shouldn't expect us to care about this philosophical position is because you are discussing it with us.

Why on earth would you be discussing reality with unreality?

If I am just your or God's illusion then you should either become more self aware or talk directly with God.

If I grant your position for the sake of argument then it becomes inherently absurd to have this conversation.

 

[Solitary Refinement]

This actually piques my curiosity somewhat.

I have a few questions.

This is the response I was hoping for. I'll gladly answer your questions.

First, I am curious as to what led you to your self-described 'one foot in' Solipsistic views.

I remember when I was younger, I would have these...episodes. I'm not sure what else to call them. I'd become hyper-aware, but I'd feel disconnected from my body. When this happens, I feel as if I'm stuck in a dream and I might wake up at any moment. The experience, at first, was a bit frightening. It still happens, but I've grown used to them.

Later on, I learned about solipsism from philosophy class, and it gave more power to my suspicions.

Second, I am curious at to how exactly you would view any input you get from this forum. Do you view it as querying your own subconscious, or something of the sort?

This could be the case. But I don't think it's likely that this world is created by my own subconscious.

Or, since you're open to the viewpoint that some god might exist aside from you to cause the illusion, are you worried this might be just an outlet of hope in the torture you suspect may be the case?

Come again...?

Thirdly, is there anything that might convince you that another person exists? Say, for example, myself. Is there a particular hoop I might jump through to convince you of my own existence, or to prove it without a doubt?

I'm not currently aware of any way one person could possibly prove their existence to another. If another Solipsist came to me and told me I didn't exist, I would know he was wrong. But if I told him I was real, he'd just think I'm an illusion keeping in character.

The thing about solipsism is you can't confirm or disprove it. That's philosophy for you.

Fourthly, I am curious as to your viewpoint on discoveries and knowledge. If you are the only being who exists, where would everything you DON"T know about be coming from? As a matter of fact, where would you have come from? If you are the only person that exists, obviously your parents don't actually exist. By the way, if your parents have died, I apologize if that came across as insensitive.

If this world is all in my head, then my mind can make it up as it goes. That, or my subconscious holds a ton of knowledge that is locked away from me until it is revealed to me.

And my parents are fine.

On the other hand, I suppose your existence would be more of an argument for a second being existing, to bring you into existence as the only other one for a time. Interesting thought.

Yes. God could be the one holding the knowledge.

Fifthly, I am curious about Mr. Pedantic's question, presuming the answer to the question you posed in posted #5 is "The evidence for the non-existence of people in my world." This may certainly somewhat overlap with my first question.

Okay. I'll reply to Pedantic, though, to avoid redundancy.

 

[Solitary Refinement]

The first one.

I guess it depends on what your baseline assumptions about the world are.

I can't really prove it. People believe in all kinds of religions without definitive evidence. People always have beliefs on things they can't possible know anything about. There are various things that give me the suspicion that the world isn't real, but more on that in another post.

 

[Solitary Refinement]

Well most of your mind could be unconscious.

True. Still, if I'm the one imagining this world, that would pretty much make me God. I don't feel anything like a god.

I'm sorry to hear that you are finding things hard. At least... that is what I was programmed to say by the Architect.

If it helps, us non-existent ones sometimes feel ignored. 'Feel' is what you call it anyway.

Okie dokie, then.

What clues did the Artist leave to your isolate existence?

Call me crazy, but I'm sensing a lot of sarcasm from you. But I'll answer you anyway.

I've touched on this earlier a bit. I often have these moments where I feel as if something just isn't right, like I'm in a dream. Not that I recall any other reality that I could wake up to, but...

Then there's just a collection of "coincidences" that always seem to happen, which to me makes life seem a bit too fine-tuned to be random. They're mostly little things, but they add up into a bigger picture. It's like one of those collections of photographs placed side-by-side like tiles that create a bigger picture.

Do you hope that the system wants to reveal itself to you?

I seriously doubt that it does. I think that it is more likely performing this balancing act. It's okay if I know that the world around me is fake, just so long as I continue chasing that carrot on a stick: the hope for a better future. Regardless, the fact that I have any knowledge at all means that it is willing to release information. The question is: how much will it allow me to have?

By logic, I've already been able to reason that I'm not likely the one in control of this world. Maybe I can learn something else.

Being an agent of the Writer it is no surprise that I'm not like you. We are here to provide you with reason to accept your world by pretending the system wouldn't reveal this to you.

Not sure what you mean by "not like you." But if you are imaginary, then you will continue to act in character. Even in my dreams (dreams within a dream?) I have no direct control over the other characters. And I've never had one tell me that I'm in a dream. The monster chasing me down the dark hallway will not stop and say, "Aww, dang. He's onto our clever ruse. Might as well stop the act." No, it'll keep chasing me until it catches me, and I wake up.

On the other hand I could just be a girl having fun. Or, I could be a minor manifestation of the Consciousness and not yet have realised it.

Like an alternate personality with it's own independent thoughts, feelings, and behaviors? Maybe so. Or maybe it's like in the movie A Beautiful Mind, where he sees these imaginary people who appear to him to have all of the characteristics of true human beings.

How do you feel about my reply?

Ummm... Like this?

*Strokes the screen on my laptop*

I don't think you are the only one who exists. But perhaps I would say that.

Perhaps you would. But I do hope you exist. Honestly, being the only real person in the world has its downsides.

 

[nebulaJP]

You have explained why you can believe in yourself and God, and why this feels like a dream world to you but why don't you believe we are real as well? If God is producing the dream world you live in, couldn't he have made it a communal dream world for all of us?

Or couldn't it be that you are in a dream, and that you are the only one in this dream, but that we are also you because we are each a different incarnation of the same being, as in this story?: The Egg

 

[Solitary Refinement]

Hmmm...,
I had to look up solopsism.

And I had to pull up a dictionary.

It looks at first glance to depend upon a confusion of identity issues.

So I don't know who I am?

And so I would diagnose your condition of 'general malaise' to "dimensional disorientation".

...Huh?

Deja vu wasn't realy the clue to a glitch, it was "cognitive dissonance". And at a party, an experience of that in a moment of sensitivity, maybe even hyper-sensitivity to its disorienting effect, can provoke a reaction of alienation & isolation.

Okay. I don't think I'm experiences symptoms of cognitive dissonance, though. Also, I like being around people. I just don't like being ignored or forgotten. That's what makes me feel alienated.

I think God found the perfect way to torture you. Give you a conscience in a body & world that is callous & self serving. In Africa, conditions of brutality don't afford conscience as much influence as here where water & electricity flow.

Interesting. So being here, I can afford to struggle with my conscience, whereas there I'd be in constant survival mode?

So as far as if only your mind exists... I wonder if you would consider suicide as an acceptable illusion to opt for if the illusions of your current circumstance suddenly went horrific.

Suicide...has been a thought on my mind before. But I really don't want to go there. I'm afraid of death. I don't know what to expect from it. Would I cease to exist? The idea terrifies me. Would I continue to wander the world as a ghost, powerless to influence the world, but not capable of realizing I'm dead? Maybe I'd be reincarnated, but would that help? Or maybe my life would loop to the beginning and follow the exact same path for all of eternity. Or worse, maybe I'm wrong, and I'll spend the rest of my existence in Hell. None of those options sound very pleasing to me.

I also don't want to die because I'm holding onto this hope that things will get better. Even if it's a false hope, it's better to life for the chance than to give up.

Power perceived is power achieved, so illusions aren't worthless or meaningless. They speak of what is behind them. And if they originate in your mind, your mind is trying to tell you something.

What is it trying to tell me?

I know what you mean about witholding full committment to any philosopjical position. They are all just positions. I think they as positions represent a facet or dimension of ourselves whether that part is active or latent more or less. In identifying ourselves, the pure can become enemy of good.

True. It is quite possible for someone to be capable of considering two or more conflicting opinions.

But weren't you saying earlier that my conflicting views were creating "cognitive dissonance?"

 

[quatona]

I'm also somewhat curious about how [you people] will react to being told [you] might not exist.

I have no problem with that. What however I do have a problem with is the idea that - while everyone else doesn´t exist - an anonymous poster in the interwebs is the only person that does exist.

Ask questions, tell me what [you] think, do [your] thing. And just in case [you] really do exist, thank [you] for your time.

I find solipsism counterintuitive, and apparently so do [you]. Even more counterintuitive would it be for me to agree with [your] solipsism (i.e. me being a character in [your] head).

If I may suggest an alternative view:
There exists a world outside us. However, all that is significant to us about this world is created in our minds. The way you perceive the world is your own making.
I have no problem at all with the idea that I (as the person you interact with at this moment) am your making, your creation, your invention. Vice versa, I consider you (i.e. the person I interact with when writing this post) a creation of my mind, as well.
All I can interact with is my inner image (notwithstanding the fact that there is something outside my mind). Everything that is not brought to me by my mind is irrelevant and insignificant to me. Who- or whatever [you] may "really" can not be of significance to me. My idea of [you] gives significance to your existence in my reality.
I see no reason to assume that this is any different vice versa.

 

[Paradoxum]

Call me crazy, but I'm sensing a lot of sarcasm from you. But I'll answer you anyway.

Not sarcastic. And if I was you can't judge me, I'm not real. Or I could have been telling the truth.

I've touched on this earlier a bit. I often have these moments where I feel as if something just isn't right, like I'm in a dream. Not that I recall any other reality that I could wake up to, but...

Sounds like something that scientists might have already looked into, maybe you should google it. It isn't that unthinkable that the mind could disassociate itself from the body and senses. The mind can do strange things.

Then there's just a collection of "coincidences" that always seem to happen, which to me makes life seem a bit too fine-tuned to be random. They're mostly little things, but they add up into a bigger picture. It's like one of those collections of photographs placed side-by-side like tiles that create a bigger picture.

What sort of coincidences? The mind is built to look for patterns and sees them where there aren't any.

I seriously doubt that it does. I think that it is more likely performing this balancing act. It's okay if I know that the world around me is fake, just so long as I continue chasing that carrot on a stick: the hope for a better future. Regardless, the fact that I have any knowledge at all means that it is willing to release information. The question is: how much will it allow me to have?

By logic, I've already been able to reason that I'm not likely the one in control of this world. Maybe I can learn something else.

Maybe you'll learn that other people are real too.

Not sure what you mean by "not like you." But if you are imaginary, then you will continue to act in character. Even in my dreams (dreams within a dream?) I have no direct control over the other characters. And I've never had one tell me that I'm in a dream. The monster chasing me down the dark hallway will not stop and say, "Aww, dang. He's onto our clever ruse. Might as well stop the act." No, it'll keep chasing me until it catches me, and I wake up.

But since you don't think your mind created this world, it isn't necessary to think that this world works like a dream.

Like an alternate personality with it's own independent thoughts, feelings, and behaviors? Maybe so. Or maybe it's like in the movie A Beautiful Mind, where he sees these imaginary people who appear to him to have all of the characteristics of true human beings.

Well yeah, we could all be your alternative personalities. I haven't seen A Beautiful Mind.

Ummm... Like this?

*Strokes the screen on my laptop*

What does that mean?

Perhaps you would. But I do hope you exist. Honestly, being the only real person in the world has its downsides.

I guess it doesn't make any difference though, unless you stress over it. The world would be no different either way.

 

[Tinker Grey]

I find it more likely that you are a figment of my imagination than that I am a figment of yours.

Why is it that solipsists don't imagine themselves as someone else's dreams. (Excluding those that ask whether God is a solipsist.)

 

[bricklayer]

Your explicit attempt to deny the existence of others implicitly affirms their existence.

By virtue of the fact that you make your claim of solipsism to others reveals it to be nothing more than an attempt at attention.

This is to date the most self-defeating OP I have read.

 

[Solitary Refinement]

Your explicit attempt to deny the existence of others implicitly affirms their existence.

By virtue of the fact that you make your claim of solipsism to others reveals it to be nothing more than an attempt at attention.

This is to date the most self-defeating OP I have read.

Nice try, but nope. As I have said, if solipsism is true, then I am interacting with the character's of this illusionary world. The purpose? Hopefully, to learn something from the experience. Nothing self-defeating about that.