Mar 22: they are at it again

[Marantha]

Eclipse said:

Here here! However, the problem here is that BethWhite claims she is Paul


Bethwhite never said that. You have a habit of injecting words not used by the poster and then attacking the person for the words you injected sir.


Careful sister, as under Old Testament law you could be up for execution if it doesn't pan out the way your claiming God says it will. That would make you a false prophet.


You had said this before to me I believe somewhere else. I will not be sarcastic here even though the flesh wants to.


We are not under "the law" sir. That's why Christ came to die for us.


People are NOT to be killed anymore; even if a prophecy is false...... if you did not know. People should not make false prophecies INTENTIONALLY agreed.

What matters now is the HEART , LOVE, and INTENTION. Only Christ knows those things truly.

Why make the Cross of Christ of none effect?



Though we are VERY close to the end of the Age of Grace; we are still in it.


Unity in Christ

Marantha

 

[Zanting]

I'll still ask the question again: What are the people who expect rapture this Friday going to be doing until then?

Are their calendars full of meetings they know of people who need salvation?

Are they going to work this week preaching boldly in the breakroom instead of working--since clearly the priority is no longer getting that report completed before the end of the month.

Last chance to earn a few more of those crowns, make a few last deposits into that Heavenly 401K!

Veyr good questions...I wonder if any will answer you!

 

[Marantha]

Originally Posted by RDKirk

I'll still ask the question again: What are the people who expect rapture this Friday going to be doing until then?

I don't believe the rapture will be this Friday.

Are their calendars full of meetings they know of people who need salvation?

No, I go where I'm directed after I pray and ask for that direction and an opportunity presents itself where I feel I am called to help.

Are they going to work this week preaching boldly in the breakroom instead of working--since clearly the priority is no longer getting that report completed before the end of the month.

Maybe..... If someone knew for sure the day of the Rapture (I do not).

Last chance to earn a few more of those crowns, make a few last deposits into that Heavenly 401K!

LOL; that could be true I suppose.


Unity in Christ
Marantha

​

 

[Steve Petersen]

I'll still ask the question again: What are the people who expect rapture this Friday going to be doing until then?

Are their calendars full of meetings they know of people who need salvation?

Are they going to work this week preaching boldly in the breakroom instead of working--since clearly the priority is no longer getting that report completed before the end of the month.

Last chance to earn a few more of those crowns, make a few last deposits into that Heavenly 401K!

Perhaps they are hastily selling all and giving it to the poor?

 

[Marantha]

Perhaps they are hastily selling all and giving it to the poor?

Perhaps they have. I did two years ago.
Though I do want any accolade from any one aside from Christ for it; so please do not comment on it.

I only say it here to show that people DO take these things seriously. I also believe not everyone needs to go and do that. I did it because i saw a need and felt called to do it. She was a widow with kids and no family. Others do not, and that is fine too. I am no better, or worse, than any other man or woman. It also does not make my opinion any more or less important than anyone else.

The problem comes when people serve Money over God. Can't do both says the Word. Where the heart is the hand follows.

Those that attempt to serve God over money are going to have to choose one or the other very soon; because Christ said one cannot serve both.

Unity in Christ
Marantha

 

[Bethwhite]

Amo 8:9 And it shall come to pass in that day, saith the Lord GOD, that I will cause the sun to go down at noon, and I will darken the earth in the clear day
Amo 8:10 And I will turn your feasts into mourning, and all your songs into lamentation; and I will bring up sackcloth upon all loins, and baldness upon every head; and I will make it as the mourning of an only [son], and the end thereof as a bitter day.

Zech 12:9 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem. 10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.


Matt 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn

 

[Strong in Him]

And this is another thing that I don't understand. The title of this thread is suggesting that something is going to happen on March 22nd. Marantha and Bethwhite both seem to be in agreement with this, but they are divided on what they think might happen.
Marantha is adamant that the abomination of desolation will appear that day, but has not claimed that the Lord will return then. Bethwhite seems to think the Lord may return, but says that the abomination of desolation occurred around 1900 years ago.

So both would seem to be on the same page; both read Revelation and then rebuke us for twisting, or not believing it - yet they are saying very different things.

So if these things are meant to be CLEAR in Scripture but they produce this much confusion among those who understand eschatology - what hope do the rest of us, (like me who doesn't understand anything) have?

 

[Bethwhite]

And this is another thing that I don't understand. The title of this thread is suggesting that something is going to happen on March 22nd. Marantha and Bethwhite both seem to be in agreement with this, but they are divided on what they think might happen.
Marantha is adamant that the abomination of desolation will appear that day, but has not claimed that the Lord will return then. Bethwhite seems to think the Lord may return, but says that the abomination of desolation occurred around 1900 years ago.

So both would seem to be on the same page; both read Revelation and then rebuke us for twisting, or not believing it - yet they are saying very different things.

So if these things are meant to be CLEAR in Scripture but they produce this much confusion among those who understand eschatology - what hope do the rest of us, (like me who doesn't understand anything) have?

Marantha is calling the revelation of the antichrist (or at least the head wound) as the abomination of desolation. The event is correct but the name that he's calling it is wrong. The antichrist has nothing to do with the abomination of desolation.

I said something to him yesterday and he asked me if I really want to split hairs. I should've set him straight.

Here's the proof:

Luke 19:41 And when he was come near, he beheld the city, and wept over it,
42 Saying, If thou hadst known, even thou, at least in this thy day, the things which belong unto thy peace! but now they are hid from thine eyes.
43For the days shall come upon thee, that thine enemies shall cast a trench about thee, and compass thee round, and keep thee in on every side,44 And shall lay thee even with the ground, and thy children within thee; and they shall not leave in thee one stone upon another; because thou knewest not the time of thy visitation.


Matt 24:And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be?
...

15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

The great tribulation has been going on since the desolation of Israel. Jesus ascended, as the slain Lamb, and started opening the first four seals on the 7-sealed scroll to desolate Israel. They are known as God's "four dreadful judgments" and they've been riding ever since.

Ezek 14:21 For thus saith the Lord God; How much more when I send my four sore judgments upon Jerusalem, the sword, and the famine, and the noisome beast, and the pestilence, to cut off from it man and beast?

See also Zech 6.

The first four seals are for judgment. The last three seals are opened as Jesus is returning. The purpose of them is to cast the devil out.

Jhn 12:31 Now is the time for judgment on this world; now the prince of this world will be driven out.

The last three seals are what is imminent, involve the rapture and the antichrist and the wrath of God.

Matt 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

That, in blue, is the 6th seal.

 

[Marantha]

There is no confusion. There is a difference of opinion by a few days on the Rapture. I agree that is a VERY important event. We will have to wait and see; but not very long.

This disagreement will not prevent anyone from being found worthy to be TAKEN in the rapture. Your heart, your obedience, and your repentance will determine that......ONCE AGAIN, not our small disagreement.

Our disagreement on whether the abomination of desolation will take place is not that important either. We can call it whatever we want as long as we understand SOMETHING absolutely incredible for the prophetic timeline will take place that day......... with the last 3 1/2 years, 1260 days, or time, times, and half a time starting the day after; on March 23.

What IS important to focus on here is that the most INCREDIBLE time since Christ rose from the dead will be upon us very, very soon. The time that we as Christians have been watching and waiting for for almost 2000 years.

The enormity of that is beyond words. Watch. Repent.

Pray the prayer of Luke 21:36

Watch ye therefore, and pray always; that ye may be found worthy to escape these things that shall come to pass; and to stand before the Son of Man.

Come Lord Jesus
Marantha

 

[Bethwhite]

The devil, the beast and the ten kings are an instrument of God's wrath.

Rev 17:16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the harlot, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.
17 For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.


The Lord's wrath precedes his coming on the clouds to destroy the wicked.

In order for wrath to begin, the Lord removes the church who have power over the devil.

1. Gathering of the church (appearance in the sky)
2. Wrath (includes the trumpets, beasts, and bowls)
3. Destruction (coming on the clouds with the armies of heaven)

 

[hiscosmicgoldfish]

And this is another thing that I don't understand. The title of this thread is suggesting that something is going to happen on March 22nd. Marantha and Bethwhite both seem to be in agreement with this, but they are divided on what they think might happen.
Marantha is adamant that the abomination of desolation will appear that day, but has not claimed that the Lord will return then. Bethwhite seems to think the Lord may return, but says that the abomination of desolation occurred around 1900 years ago.

So both would seem to be on the same page; both read Revelation and then rebuke us for twisting, or not believing it - yet they are saying very different things.

So if these things are meant to be CLEAR in Scripture but they produce this much confusion among those who understand eschatology - what hope do the rest of us, (like me who doesn't understand anything) have?

Obama is scheduled to visit israel on the 22nd. the abomination didn't happen in the past, except for perhaps the activities of antiochus. the romans desecration and the muslim's shrine was not an abomination.
whatever it is, i will be watching out on th 22nd.
i doubt that anyone will be fleeing to the hills, in israel.

 

[Bethwhite]

Obama is scheduled to visit israel on the 22nd. the abomination didn't happen in the past, except for perhaps the activities of antiochus. the romans desecration and the muslim's shrine was not an abomination.
whatever it is, i will be watching out on th 22nd.
i doubt that anyone will be fleeing to the hills, in israel.

It was the Romans that desolated Israel, leaving "not one stone upon another" of the temple buildings, until the time of the end - until Israel says, "blessed is HE WHO COMES in the name of the Lord".

Matt 23:37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.
39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.


Whatever the antichrist does, it will involve the Temple Mount, blasphemy against God, and proclaiming himself to be God and he will say horrible things about the raptured church as well (Rev 13) - but it has nothing to do with the "abomination of desolation" that desolated Israel until the time of the end.

 

[hiscosmicgoldfish]

It was the Romans that desolated Israel, leaving "not one stone upon another" of the temple buildings, until the time of the end - until Israel says, "blessed is HE WHO COMES in the name of the Lord".

Whatever the antichrist does, it will involve the Temple Mount, blasphemy against God, and proclaiming himself to be God and he will say horrible things about the raptured church as well (Rev 13) - but it has nothing to do with the "abomination of desolation" that desolated Israel until the time of the end.

desolation, destruction yes, but not abomination, that has not occured as yet. i think i know what Jesus was talking about, but i'm not going to spell it out here, as people will start reaching for their tin foil hats.
i dont think there is going to be a rapture. i think it is a worldly doctrine and i suspect that it has been a money making scam. i dont see any evidence for it anywhere in the bible.

 

[Strong in Him]

I said something to him yesterday and he asked me if I really want to split hairs. I should've set him straight.

Here's the proof:

Luke 19:41 And when he was come near, he beheld the city, and wept over it,
42 Saying, If thou hadst known, even thou, at least in this thy day, the things which belong unto thy peace! but now they are hid from thine eyes.
43For the days shall come upon thee, that thine enemies shall cast a trench about thee, and compass thee round, and keep thee in on every side,44 And shall lay thee even with the ground, and thy children within thee; and they shall not leave in thee one stone upon another; because thou knewest not the time of thy visitation.

The Romans did that in AD 70 when they captured Jerusalem and destroyed the temple - they built a seige wall around the city and waited; many people starved to death and those that didn't were too weak to fight off the soldiers when they came into the city.

Matt 24:And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

The disciples drew Jesus' attention to the temple building; they were admiring it. Jesus replied by saying that it would soon be destroyed - not one stone would be left upon another. The temple was completely destroyed in AD 70. Prophecy fulfilled.

3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be?
...

15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)

The immediate context of this passage is the destruction of the temple. "End of the age" may not necessarily mean the end of the world, just the end of that present age; things, as they knew them, were going to end. After Jesus died and rose from the dead it would be possible for US to be God's temple, (1 Cor 3:16; 6:19). And the disciples, and even Jews, would no longer have a physical temple anyway because it was going to be destroyed. Maybe the Lord wanted to prevent people from becoming too dependant on a building.

Look at v 9: "then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death". That happened too - all the disciples were persecuted; many were killed.

V 15 speaks of the abomination of desolation (a phrase the Jews would have recognised from the book of Daniel, which is why, I think, he says "let the reader understand"); when they saw that, THEN they were to flee to the hills and so on.

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

I would guess that the persecution of Christians, the seige of Jerusalem and destruction of the temple amounted to a pretty big tribulation. Even when the first temple was destroyed, many Jews were saved because they were in exile in Babylon. Some of those who were left in Jerusalem were also safe. That temple was rebuilt - this one wouldn't be.

23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

There were many false Messiahs in Israel, both before Jesus was born, and after his death, during the time of the Maccabean revolution.

Maybe all this "proves" to you that the Lord is returning soon and the end is nigh - it doesn't prove it to me. I don't see that it is clear at all.

 

[Strong in Him]

There is no confusion.

There is to me - that's what I was saying.

 

[Bethwhite]

desolation, destruction yes, but not abomination, that has not occured as yet. i think i know what Jesus was talking about, but i'm not going to spell it out here, as people will start reaching for their tin foil hats.
i dont think there is going to be a rapture. i think it is a worldly doctrine and i suspect that it has been a money making scam. i dont see any evidence for it anywhere in the bible.

Jesus said the great tribulation began after the abomination of desolation took place.

Look at Matt 24 (quoted below) and tell me what JESUS SAID happens after the tribulation is cut short for the sake of the elect. JESUS SAID what happens after it and what happens immediately after it. Can you see it?

Matt 24:And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be?
...

15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.


Matt 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:


In case you can't see it, immediately after the tribulation of those days, the 6th seal events occur. After the tribulation of those days is cut short, the false christ/false prophet arise and perform false miracles.

Revelation shows this exact order of events as well. The elect for whom the great tribulation is cut short is found in Rev 7.

 

[Strong in Him]

Obama is scheduled to visit israel on the 22nd.

So? That only works if you have proved for a fact that Obama is the antiChrist. There have been many contenders for that position; Tony Blair, Prince William, the pope - and that's only the ones I've read about on these forums. Henry Kissenger was once a candidate, I understand - and Ronald Regan too.

 

[hiscosmicgoldfish]

Look at Matt 24 (quoted below) and tell me what JESUS SAID happens after the tribulation is cut short for the sake of the elect. JESUS SAID what happens after it and what happens immediately after it. Can you see it?

Jesus was talking about two times at the same time.. warning people about the roman attack of 70 ad, and describing the end times scenario, by pointing people back to daniel.. to unlock what is in daniel. you have to try and sort out which bits refer to what.

he wasn't just talking about 70 ad, although that was important to warn people of that danger.

 

[Bethwhite]

Look at Matt 24 (quoted below) and tell me what JESUS SAID happens after the tribulation is cut short for the sake of the elect. JESUS SAID what happens after it and what happens immediately after it. Can you see it?

Jesus was talking about two times at the same time.. warning people about the roman attack of 70 ad, and describing the end times scenario, by pointing people back to daniel.. to unlock what is in daniel. you have to try and sort out which bits refer to what.

he wasn't just talking about 70 ad, although that was important to warn people of that danger.

No, because the antichrist and false prophet arise and perform false miracles after the great tribulation is cut short for the sake of the elect, according to Jesus.

The two things that Jesus said happens after the great tribulation is cut short is
1. 6th seal
2. false christs/false prophets arise and perform false miracles.

The abomination of desolation OF ISRAEL/JERUSALEM occurred prior to the great tribulation. The great tribulation has been going on for 20 centuries, 2 days on God's calendar!

Jesus was answering the disciples questions, after all - and it's a 2000 year time span!

Matt 24:And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple. 2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

 

[Strong in Him]

Look at Matt 24 (quoted below) and tell me what JESUS SAID happens after the tribulation is cut short for the sake of the elect. JESUS SAID what happens after it and what happens immediately after it. Can you see it?

You seem to be assuming that great tribulation refers to a world wide event and that the elect = the church.
Jesus had just predicted the destruction of the temple and persecution of the disciples. How do you know that he was talking about the end of the world and persecution of ALL believers?

He is talking to the disciples; "there will be wars, rumours of wars, earthquakes "etc. THEN (verse 9) - ie after they have heard of rumours of wars, experienced earthquakes and famine (there was a famine during the time of Claudius, predicted by Agabus in Acts 11:27-28) - they (the disciples) would be handed over to be persecuted - and they were.

I just don't see how this relates to us now, and Obama's visit to Israel in particular. I guess we'll find out by next weekend, but I am still preparing to celebrate Easter this year, (and Christmas.)