-
Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
-
CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.
Do we plan our own steps?
- Thread starter Shulamite
- Start date
Do I read that He was 'delivered' by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God? I do not read He was 'crucified' by this determinate counsel and foreknowledge.
Upvote
0
JackSparrow
Well-Known Member
14 So the Lord God said to the serpent, “Because you have done this,
“Cursed are you above all livestock
and all wild animals!
You will crawl on your belly
and you will eat dust
all the days of your life.
15 And I will put enmity
between you and the woman,
and between your offspring[a] and hers;
he will crush your head,
and you will strike his heel.”
When did God do the determining. This scripture looks like it was after the fall.
“Cursed are you above all livestock
and all wild animals!
You will crawl on your belly
and you will eat dust
all the days of your life.
15 And I will put enmity
between you and the woman,
and between your offspring[a] and hers;
he will crush your head,
and you will strike his heel.”
When did God do the determining. This scripture looks like it was after the fall.
Upvote
0
reformed ttL
slowly becoming less newbie
- Dec 21, 2009
- 215
- 19
- Faith
- Baptist
- Marital Status
- Married
- Politics
- CA-Conservatives
how does that say when he did the determining? that could be when God decided to let man know
Upvote
0
JackSparrow
Well-Known Member
I should of phrased it better. I was intending it to be more of a question.
Upvote
0
Amen. It was most certainly determined that the Son would BECOME sin, Who knew no sin and would be crushed and killed for our sakes. It was ordered and ordained, according to scripture, that the Lamb of God was "slain BEFORE the foundation of the world" NOT after the fall of man.
Upvote
0
Scripture.....alone says so.
Revelation 13:8 "And all that dwell on the earth shall worship him, every one whose name hath not been written (past tense) in the book of life of the Lamb that hath been slain from the foundation of the world." (past tense)
Up above, we see that the names of those written in the Lamb's Book of Life "have been written". Past tense. None of us, saved or unsaved, were around to put our own names in His book of life. Jesus did.
Matthew 25:34..""Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world." (past tense).
This scripture proves that the Kingdom of God was prepared for His own before they were even here. Where were we to make that choice?
What tense are these scriptures written? Past, present or future? If you were in an english class and the professor asked you to break the "tenses" of these sentences down, how would you read into them? No other answer but past tense. It was decided by the Father BEFORE the foundation of the world to write our names in His book of Life and to have His Son crucified for us, not after the fall of man.
Upvote
0
You quoted from Matt 25 to show man has no choice in the matter--read the rest of the story in Matt 25 where the sheep chose to love and the goats chose to not love and on the basis of these choices, eternal life and death was determined by Jesus. Do you chose to be blind to what this teaches?
Upvote
0
Sheep are sheep and goats are goats. One doesn't become the other. Jesus made clear references to two different types of creatures.
Jeremiah 13:23..."Can the Ethiopian change his skin or the leopard its spots? Neither can you do good who are accustomed to doing evil."
We cannot change ourselves. If we are goats or sheep, Jesus determines this and neither can change themselves.
Also, how do you get around the fact of scripture that states that the Kingdom was prepared in advance for His children or that our names were already written in the Lamb's book of life before the foundation of the world? When did these things take place? After you made a choice?
Upvote
0
Yes a goat can become a sheep by turning from wickedness to righteousness and if he or she does that they will live and not die. Ezekiel 18. You are still chosing to not read what Matt 25 teaches you. The sheep were people who love other, fed the hungry, visited the sick, etc. The goats were people who chose not to do that. It is there for you to read.
Upvote
0
Would you please explain Jeremiah 13:23 to me? Respecfully, I may have misunderstood what it says? I will have to disagree with you in respect.
An orange tree is NOT an apple tree, nor can it will itself to change into something else. My quote was from Matthew 24 where Jesus explains that the Kingdom is prepared for His own sheep from before the foundation of the world.
Back to subject, Jeremiah 13:23 says a person (or leopard) cannot change what they are. Only God has the power to do this. To be honest, I am totally poor in spirit. I have nothing, am capable of nothing and know nothing unless God chooses to bestow it to me. I can do NOTHING apart from Christ, including change myself.
Upvote
0
How about you explain Matt 25 where Jesus rewards those who loved others and does not reward those who did not love others? Do you think Jesus punished the goats for being what God created them to be and caused them to do? I don't partly because that would not be just or loving and God is both.
Upvote
0
With all respect, you are avoiding the scripture in Jeremiah! Isaiah also speaks and questions the Lord as to "why have you, O Lord, caused us to stray from You and from fearing You?"
Please tackle Jeremiah 23:13? It seems you are trying to divert from it. If you are saved and love Jesus is NOT *I repeat* NOT because of anything you chose or did! It is all His choosing and determining. This is scriptural.
The goats and the sheep are not the same. You are either of your father the devil or of your Father in heaven Jesus said. He never said you can "become" anything of your own striving, strength or free will/ choice.
Can a cat, which is born a cat, not act according to it's nature? A cat will behave and make choices as a cat because that's what it is. Can a cat change itself into a dog? No. A cat is BORN with a "cat nature" and acts according to it's own nature. When we are born into this world, we are born with an old nature, we are born as the "natural man" and will act like a natural man, sound like a natural man and BE a natural man. When God chooses to make me new, I am born of His Spirit with a NEW nature, He makes me a new creature. My new nature will act according to the new creation God has CHOSEN to make me. Jeremiah 23:13 is saying this. Can anyone change themselves from what they are? No. ONly God can do this.
Last edited:
Upvote
0
You are avoiding Matt 25 and Ezekiel 18 and it says God has given us the ability to be loving or unloving which means we can chose to be a loving sheep or an unloving goat. Ezekiel says we can destroy our own soul with our own sin. Are you saying Jeremiah says Ezekiel was wrong? I am saying Ezekiel says your interpretation of Jeremiah is not correct. You are saying Jeremiah is saying we sin because of God--He gets all the glory for that. Correct?
Upvote
0
When we sin, is it the will of God? If not apparently we can resist the will of God. If it is the will of God, how is God good?
Upvote
0
In Romans
One of you will say to me: "Then why does God still blame us? For who resists his will?" New Living Translation (©2007)
Well then, you might say, "Why does God blame people for not responding? Haven't they simply done what he makes them do?" English Standard Version (©2001)
You will say to me then, Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?
9:19 Paul's objectors asked the very same questions that are posed on this forum. No....we cannot resist God's will. And...YES, God is good.
Upvote
0
Similar threads
