Do we plan our own steps?

[cygnusx1]

If I am a full time fatalist ...... Then those who say it must be , by their own standard a part time fatalist ,, they allow that God only directs some of the steps of men . They imagine if God orders all mans steps then that is fatalism , so they seek to escape the charge of fatalism by denouncing others while at the very same time saying God orders some of the steps of men .... They are by their own standard a part time fatalist .

It would be better to go the whole hog and deny God orders any mans steps than fall into half sovereignty , partial ordered steps , which does little to engage in debate and little to escape the charge levelled at others . So either God orders mans steps or He doesn't !

 

[Arcoe]

If I am a full time fatalist ...... Then those who say it must be , by their own standard a part time fatalist ,, they allow that God only directs some of the steps of men . They imagine if God orders all mans steps then that is fatalism , so they seek to escape the charge of fatalism by denouncing others while at the very same time saying God orders some of the steps of men .... They are by their own standard a part time fatalist .

It would be better to go the whole hog and deny God orders any mans steps than fall into half sovereignty , partial ordered steps , which does little to engage in debate and little to escape the charge levelled at others . So either God orders mans steps or He doesn't !

So Cygnus, do you charge God with ordering your steps to sin? Did God order Hitler's steps, or perhaps the shooter's steps at Newtown?

 

[cygnusx1]

So Cygnus, do you charge God with ordering your steps to sin? Did God order Hitler's steps, or perhaps the shooter's steps at Newtown?

What if He did ?

You think that makes God the author of sin ? It doesn't !

 

[all2Jesus]

I believe man has a 'limited menu'. I.e can and does determining many of his own steps. Many does NOT mean all and it does NOT mean none. Man is not a robot.

I like your phrase "limited menu". God did set the parameters on many things. We can choose within these parameters. For example, we can choose to jump out of a plane without a parachute. The laws of gravity God set up on earth will kill us. We can choose to reject Jesus, but we will also end up rejecting eternal life.

 

[Arcoe]

What if He did ?

You think that makes God the author of sin ? It doesn't !

Why would He order your steps to sin when it is in direct conflict and opposition of His revealed word? If you sin, then you are obeying His decrees, but disobeying His word. Which should you obey, His decree or His word?

 

[all2Jesus]

So Cygnus, do you charge God with ordering your steps to sin? Did God order Hitler's steps, or perhaps the shooter's steps at Newtown?

What if He did ?

You think that makes God the author of sin ? It doesn't !

It makes him schizophrenic, which he's not.

 

[Arcoe]

It makes him schizophrenic, which he's not.

Just think, if God didn't order the murder of the Newtown kids, how happy a lot of parents would be today.

And, if Hitler wasn't ordered by God to slaughter all those people, oh well, I wonder, should I replace my view of God as a loving, caring, and compassionate being, and start to think of Him with this human-like dark side.

I also wonder, what if God orders one of these people on this board to hunt me down and eliminate me...can they stop themselves from doing this?

What's a man to think of such a thing?

 

[Arcoe]

What if He did ?

You think that makes God the author of sin ? It doesn't !

Oh Cygnus, what if God orders your steps to commit adultery or fornication, would you have any say in whether you will do it or not? Also, would you give credit or blame your failure to walk in the Spirit on God?

Would you do it and thank God for this atrocious offense? Would God get glory from your sinful act?

Please explain, for I am having a tough time figuring this Calvinist doctrine out.

 

[all2Jesus]

Just think, if God didn't order the murder of the Newtown kids, how happy a lot of parents would be today.

And, if Hitler wasn't ordered by God to slaughter all those people, oh well, I wonder, should I replace my view of God as a loving, caring, and compassionate being, and start to think of Him with this human-like dark side.

I also wonder, what if God orders one of these people on this board to hunt me down and eliminate me...can they stop themselves from doing this?

What's a man to think of such a thing?

Agreed. The bible says the steps of a righteous man are ordered of the Lord. Why is that? I believe if we ask the Lord to lead us, he does. If we don't want his leading he won't force it on us, except in rare occasions like Jonah and Nineveh.

The smart thing is to choose to surrender our will to the Lord's. The times we do wrong is the times we chose our own way over God's way. He wouldn't have anything to do with our sinful choices. He would have been nudging us to do the right thing if we were listening.

 

[cygnusx1]

Why would He order your steps to sin when it is in direct conflict and opposition of His revealed word? If you sin, then you are obeying His decrees, but disobeying His word. Which should you obey, His decree or His word?

It makes him schizophrenic, which he's not.

Just think, if God didn't order the murder of the Newtown kids, how happy a lot of parents would be today.

And, if Hitler wasn't ordered by God to slaughter all those people, oh well, I wonder, should I replace my view of God as a loving, caring, and compassionate being, and start to think of Him with this human-like dark side.

I also wonder, what if God orders one of these people on this board to hunt me down and eliminate me...can they stop themselves from doing this?

What's a man to think of such a thing?

Oh Cygnus, what if God orders your steps to commit adultery or fornication, would you have any say in whether you will do it or not? Also, would you give credit or blame your failure to walk in the Spirit on God?

Would you do it and thank God for this atrocious offense? Would God get glory from your sinful act?

Please explain, for I am having a tough time figuring this Calvinist doctrine out.

Agreed. The bible says the steps of a righteous man are ordered of the Lord. Why is that? I believe if we ask the Lord to lead us, he does. If we don't want his leading he won't force it on us, except in rare occasions like Jonah and Nineveh.

The smart thing is to choose to surrender our will to the Lord's. The times we do wrong is the times we chose our own way over God's way. He wouldn't have anything to do with our sinful choices. He would have been nudging us to do the right thing if we were listening.

The Lord permits sin He doesn't make anyone sin.
None are forced to sin , there is an endless supply of men willing and greedy for sin .

Why if it were not for The Lord you too would be as bad as the worst , deny that and you know nothing of Grace.

 

[Arcoe]

Agreed. The bible says the steps of a righteous man are ordered of the Lord. Why is that? I believe if we ask the Lord to lead us, he does. If we don't want his leading he won't force it on us, except in rare occasions like Jonah and Nineveh.

The smart thing is to choose to surrender our will to the Lord's. The times we do wrong is the times we chose our own way over God's way. He wouldn't have anything to do with our sinful choices. He would have been nudging us to do the right thing if we were listening.

How are our steps ordered, established, or directed?

Psalm 119:105 Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.

Only one way, by His word.

 

[Arcoe]

The Lord permits sin He doesn't make anyone sin.
None are forced to sin , there is an endless supply of men willing and greedy for sin .

Now you say He 'permits' sin, while earlier you said He 'orders' and 'directs' sin. 'Permit' is not even the same as 'direct' and 'order'.

Why if it were not for The Lord you too would be as bad as the worst , deny that and you know nothing of Grace.

Without the Lord's providence and care, every man would hurriedly send himself headlong to hell.

As far as grace is concerned, do you not know, we do not sin because grace abounds? May it never be! So, how is it a regenerate man sins when grace says NO to sinning? Does the Lord 'order' us to sin against His own word?

 

[all2Jesus]

How are our steps ordered, established, or directed?

Psalm 119:105 Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.

Only one way, by His word.

Agreed. Good point.

 

[all2Jesus]

The Lord permits sin He doesn't make anyone sin.
None are forced to sin , there is an endless supply of men willing and greedy for sin .

Why if it were not for The Lord you too would be as bad as the worst , deny that and you know nothing of Grace.

The Grace of God would make a good topic for discussion. What is it exactly and how does it work. Or should I say how does He work? The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of grace is he not? What happens at salvation between us and the Holy Spirit? How do we become a new creation? What's different between us and an unsaved person? Is this appropriate for this forum or is there a different one for this topic?

 

[cygnusx1]

Now you say He 'permits' sin, while earlier you said He 'orders' and 'directs' sin. 'Permit' is not even the same as 'direct' and 'order'.



Without the Lord's providence and care, every man would hurriedly send himself headlong to hell.

As far as grace is concerned, do you not know, we do not sin because grace abounds? May it never be! So, how is it a regenerate man sins when grace says NO to sinning? Does the Lord 'order' us to sin against His own word?

the most sinful act ever committed was permitted by God and it is no secret God also determined it :


Acts 2

[22] Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:
[23] Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:



Also Acts 4

[26] The kings of the earth stood up, and the rulers were gathered together against the Lord, and against his Christ.
[27] For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together,
[28] For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done.

 

[all2Jesus]

the most sinful act ever committed was permitted by God and it is no secret God also determined it :

Acts 2

[22] Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:
[23] Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:

Also Acts 4

[26] The kings of the earth stood up, and the rulers were gathered together against the Lord, and against his Christ.
[27] For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together,
[28] For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done.

Jesus was the sacrificial lamb. This was an act of covenant to save us. Were all the sacrifices acts of sin? No, they were acts of covenant to pay for our sins.

 

[cygnusx1]

Jesus was the sacrificial lamb. This was an act of covenant to save us. Were all the sacrifices acts of sin? No, they were acts of covenant to pay for our sins.

what has that to do with the constant rejection that God can and does determine evil events ?

smells like special pleading

"Special pleading, also known as stacking the deck, ignoring the counterevidence, slanting, and one-sided assessment, is a form of spurious argument where a position in a dispute introduces favourable details or excludes unfavourable details by alleging a need to apply additional considerations without proper criticism of these considerations. Essentially, this involves someone attempting to cite something as an exemption to a generally accepted rule, principle, etc. without justifying the exemption "

does the text state God determined the sin of crucifying the son of God , yes or no ?

 

[JackSparrow]

Yes but when. Before or after the fall ?

 

[cygnusx1]

Yes but when. Before or after the fall ?

Deflection

 

[JackSparrow]

Deflection

I new you would say that.