DO We Have Free Will?

[Arcoe]

Has nothing to do with the source of the temptation.

Thank you sunlover, I'm glad I'm not the only one to see right through his logic.

 

[Arcoe]

Only believers who speak truthfully are in truth.

Again, how do you know if you are speaking truth, since you share a will with the devil?

The devil in men can't tell the truth donchaknow?

Since you say you have the will of Satan within you, how is it you tell the truth?

Oh well. Such is the fate of the suppressed will.

At least I don't share a will with Satan.

Relegated to either not knowing (blindness/lack of knowledge) or outright fibbing (caused by whom?)

Uh, yeah.

Again, are your words from the will of Satan or yours? How could you possibly know?

 

[sunlover1]

Only believers who speak truthfully are in truth.

The devil in men can't tell the truth donchaknow?

Oh well. Such is the fate of the suppressed will.

Relegated to either not knowing (blindness/lack of knowledge) or outright fibbing (caused by whom?)

Uh, yeah.

"devil in men"?
I don't have devil,.. in me
I'm a God carrier,... no empty house over here guy.
Whatchutalkinbout willis?

 

[Rick Otto]

Man cannot be free of God's will.
It is a creation of God, therefore it exists by & within, His will.
It either does what He wants or does what He allows.
Therefore, either way, it exists & operates according to His will.

Some might choose to denigrate this arrangement by compoaring us to puppets or robots, but that's because they don't understand how they can still be personaly responsible for anything they do, if all they do is God's will, and they don't understand how it can be God's will that we do wickedness without that making God wicked.

Acts 2:23:Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain

Peter knew it was God's will that He would allow deicide.

 

[squint]

Has nothing to do with the source of the temptation.

The 'source' of Jesus' temptation was not 'internal' period, source notwithstanding.

Jesus was not His Own tempter if that is where yer heading.

 

[squint]

A very good diversion, but you said Jesus' temptations were not internal, and since He was tempted 'in ALL points' as we are, our temptations must not be internal either.

What is it you don't understand about except without sin?

Therefore your claim that Satan's will is present in our minds is null and void, for our minds are definitely internal.

There is no follow on therefore.

If your claim is that Satan, the tempter does not tempt in any persons mind just come out and say so. No use beating around the bush for me.

If you do see that the tempter does in fact tempt in mind it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that means there are two factual entities in mind and freewill in that scenario is a logical fallacy.

s

 

[squint]

Again, how do you know if you are speaking truth, since you share a will with the devil?

I admit the presence of a liar with me when tempted.

How about you?

Since you say you have the will of Satan within you, how is it you tell the truth?

We can not say we 'have,' [present tense] no sin. Sin is of the devil. (1 John 1:8 and 1 John 3:8)

Do the math.

No liar can tell this truth.

At least I don't share a will with Satan.

Again, if your claim is that the tempter does not tempt you in mind just say so and you'll be on the record for that statement.

Again, are your words from the will of Satan or yours? How could you possibly know?

The positional understanding is from text. It has zero to do with 'my' presentation of same. Any halfwit who can read would be able to extract that information. That is the crux of the matter.

The fun part of theology is that facts can be written, black on white and still not be seen.

Matthew 13:13
Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.

s

 

[Rick Otto]

The 'source' of Jesus' temptation was not 'internal' period, source notwithstanding.

Jesus was not His Own tempter if that is where yer heading.

Right, but His body tempted Him,... to eat, sleep, etc, according to it's own desires. Right?

 

[squint]

"devil in men"?
I don't have devil,.. in me
I'm a God carrier,... no empty house over here guy.
Whatchutalkinbout willis?

Sensationalism about Hollywood devils making people's head spin 360 degrees and spew green pea soup is not the topic of conversation.

>Mankind has Word stolen from their hearts by Satan. Mark 4:15

>Mankind's mind as it pertains to unbelievers is blinded by the god of this world. 2 Cor. 4:4

>Paul had evil present with him. Romans 7:21

>Paul had a messenger of Satan in his flesh. 2 Cor. 12:7

>Paul was the chief of sinners post salvation and sin is of the devil. 1 Tim. 1:15 and 1 John 3:8

For all of these facts and more such as the thousands of devils and Satan shown IN MAN in the N.T. Gospels it proves beyond any doubt TEXTUALLY SPEAKING that devils and man occupy the same space, that is OUR FLESH and HEART/MIND.

Therefore freewill is a logical fallacy.

What's even more amazing is that we have posted at this same board for what? Nearly 6 years and you NEVER SAW this before or even asked about it when it's been a major theme of 10,000 of my posts? How does that work exactly...?

Anyone who 'fesses' up to this fact personally will be shown a superabundance of confirming scriptures by The Holy Spirit and the Spirit will teach them directly because the Holy Spirit has brought them HONESTY within them according to The Word.

If they don't they will NOT understand them, period and will abide in false judgments many.

enjoy!

s

 

[squint]

Right, but His body tempted Him,... to eat, sleep, etc, according to it's own desires. Right?

Uh, no. Jesus was not His Own Tempter.

It is also not a 'sin' to be hungry or have to sleep as far as I know. As to 'other of it's own desires' if you are saying God in Christ had internal sexual sin like lustful thoughts about women, uh, NO.

Jesus was tempted by an entity that was not Him. That entity was Satan, the devil.

Our temptations are much closer to home, INTERNALLY. His was not. Satan had nothing 'in Him.'

That is why we listen to Him.

Mark 4:15 And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts.

Tell me Rick, if you read Mark 4:15, where would Satan be when the Word is stolen from peoples hearts???

And if this is the case how can any reasoning person claim freewill if Satan was in their heart stealing Word from them?

Then tell me why the Pope and all his magisterium can't even figure this one out?

s

 

[Arcoe]

What is it you don't understand about except without sin?

Without sin, isn't the issue here. The issue is that Jesus was tempted in ALL points as we are. What do you say is ALL POINTS?

There is no follow on therefore.

Is this Satan speaking or you?

If your claim is that Satan, the tempter does not tempt in any persons mind just come out and say so. No use beating around the bush for me.

Tempting in my mind does NOT mean Satan resides there. If Satan does reside in one's mind, it is because the person DOES NOT RESIST him, or the person DOES NOT FLEE from him. Which one fits your situation?

If you do see that the tempter does in fact tempt in mind it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that means there are two factual entities in mind and freewill in that scenario is a logical fallacy.

James (1:18) says, "A double minded man is unstable in all his ways".
Maybe the unstable can't understand this concept of being double-minded.

I guess you can have Satan reside in your mind if you freely choose. I freely choose to FLEE from his lies and RESIST his wicked deceptions.

 

[Arcoe]

Sensationalism about Hollywood devils making people's head spin 360 degrees and spew green pea soup is not the topic of conversation.

>Mankind has Word stolen from their hearts by Satan. Mark 4:15

>Mankind's mind as it pertains to unbelievers is blinded by the god of this world. 2 Cor. 4:4

>Paul had evil present with him. Romans 7:21

>Paul had a messenger of Satan in his flesh. 2 Cor. 12:7

>Paul was the chief of sinners post salvation and sin is of the devil. 1 Tim. 1:15 and 1 John 3:8

For all of these facts and more such as the thousands of devils and Satan shown IN MAN in the N.T. Gospels it proves beyond any doubt TEXTUALLY SPEAKING that devils and man occupy the same space, that is OUR FLESH and HEART/MIND.

Therefore freewill is a logical fallacy.

What's even more amazing is that we have posted at this same board for what? Nearly 6 years and you NEVER SAW this before or even asked about it when it's been a major theme of 10,000 of my posts? How does that work exactly...?

Anyone who 'fesses' up to this fact personally will be shown a superabundance of confirming scriptures by The Holy Spirit and the Spirit will teach them directly because the Holy Spirit has brought them HONESTY within them according to The Word.

If they don't they will NOT understand them, period and will abide in false judgments many.

enjoy!

s

Are you a believer squint? If would be to your advantage to know scripture.

Mark 16:17
And these signs shall follow them that believe; in my name shall they cast out devils;

If you do believe and having problems with Satan within you, CAST HIM OUT. Problem solved!

The probable reason you have been on here 6 years and never saw this before is because most of the believers here have cast the devil out, have resisted him, and have fled from him. I would say if you are having problems with satan in your mind, then either you aren't a believer, or haven't resisted and fled from him.

 

[squint]

Are you a believer squint? If would be to your advantage to know scripture.

If you want to chase my posts around and around and never get to your point you are welcome to.

If you want to just go on record by saying the tempter does not tempt believers in mind JUST SAY SO and stop wasting your time.

I understand the information can be unpleasant to hear to a persons PRIDE.

It's not like this is new information. Orthodoxy holds the same understanding to this extent, cited from New Advent, the RCC encyclopedia:

"There is, of course, a true doctrine about demons or evil spirits, namely, that portion of Catholic theology which treats of the creation and fall of the rebel angels, and of the various ways in which thesefallen spirits are permitted to tempt and afflict the children of men"

Believers who post here really should have a grip on the basics donchathink there ARCOE????

Well, maybe not.

s

 

[squint]

Without sin, isn't the issue here. The issue is that Jesus was tempted in ALL points as we are. What do you say is ALL POINTS?

Look Jesus is without sin, in or out period. End of conversation.

If you want to claim Jesus had temptation within His Mind from Satan just SAY SO.

To me that understanding is heresy.

Is this Satan speaking or you?

The position is from the text, not from me. Spin however you want from there.

Tempting in my mind does NOT mean Satan resides there.

Are you actually admitting that it is a scriptural fact that the tempter tempts in mind?

heh heh heh. Why don't you just SAY SO then?

Why bother straining with me over this FACT?

It either happens or it doesn't.

yeah or nay Arcoe?

s

 

[Arcoe]

It is also not a 'sin' to be hungry or have to sleep as far as I know. As to 'other of it's own desires' if you are saying God in Christ had internal sexual sin like lustful thoughts about women, uh, NO.

If you have been tempted with desires of internal sexual sins, then we can be assured, Jesus was also. For He was tempted in ALL POINTS as we are. Now, resist the devil inside you, and believe scripture.

 

[Noxot]

Man cannot be free of God's will.
It is a creation of God, therefore it exists by & within, His will.
It either does what He wants or does what He allows.
Therefore, either way, it exists & operates according to His will.

Some might choose to denigrate this arrangement by compoaring us to puppets or robots, but that's because they don't understand how they can still be personaly responsible for anything they do, if all they do is God's will, and they don't understand how it can be God's will that we do wickedness without that making God wicked.

Acts 2:23:Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain

Peter knew it was God's will that He would allow deicide.

God never willed us that we do evil. if you need me to I could look for other passages in the scriptures that you do believe are from God to attempt to show that God does not will for us to sin.
sir.15 18-20
[18] For great is the wisdom of the Lord;
he is mighty in power and sees everything;
[19] his eyes are on those who fear him,
and he knows every deed of man.
[20] He has not commanded any one to be ungodly,
and he has not given any one permission to sin.

i know this will most likely not be strong evidence to you because it is a book that is not included in your version of the bible and I doubt I see your view of will clearly enough but do you really think God wills for us to do evil? does it not make more sense that we pick evil and Gods grace uses evil for good? it makes more sense to me that God arranges things in a reactionary way according to our own wills but things get very hard to explain because God sees the entire picture and the best possible arrangement of all our wills together due to us being small and God huge.

where exactly would justice be if we did not have free will? maybe you can explain that part of your quote i underlined or link me to where you explained that?

 

[squint]

If you have been tempted with desires of internal sexual sins, then we can be assured, Jesus was also. For He was tempted in ALL POINTS as we are. Now, resist the devil inside you, and believe scripture.

For the record that would be an 'official heresy' by most standards including every branch of orthodoxy and protestantism. At least we know where you are at.

You are welcome to continue with the bizarre little dance and not have an answer one way or the other.

If you do get around to actually having a fact about it, you are welcome to state it.

If you do see that the tempter does tempt people IN MIND then you might also see the logical fallacy of freewill....

because....

Mankinds will would not be 'categorically' alone.

Is this simple enough for you yet?

s

 

[Arcoe]

For the record that would be an 'official heresy' by most standards including every branch of orthodoxy and protestantism. At least we know where you are at.

You are welcome to continue with the bizarre little dance and not have an answer one way or the other.

If you do get around to actually having a fact about it, you are welcome to state it.

If you do see that the tempter does tempt people IN MIND then you might also see the logical fallacy of freewill....

because....

Mankinds will would not be 'categorically' alone.

Is this simple enough for you yet?

s

I'm beginning to realize Satan just might have a home in your mind.

 

[squint]

I'm beginning to realize Satan just might have a home in your mind.

Well, I really wasn't expecting you'd have an actual view one way or the other.

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

 

[Arcoe]

Well, I really wasn't expecting you'd have an actual view one way or the other.

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Sleep on! Others here are awake and watchful against the wiles of the devil.