Heliocentrism

[InternetApostle]

This came up in the thread about solar theory, but I figured I'd bring it up here because I don't know how many people are reading it five pages in. Does anyone else here reject the idea that the Earth orbits the sun? The Bible is pretty clear that the Earth is fixed and immobile, and it's the sun that moves, and I'm surprised how many Christians are willing to reject the Bible for science.

 

[Subduction Zone]

This came up in the thread about solar theory, but I figured I'd bring it up here because I don't know how many people are reading it five pages in. Does anyone else here reject the idea that the Earth orbits the sun? The Bible is pretty clear that the Earth is fixed and immobile, and it's the sun that moves, and I'm surprised how many Christians are willing to reject the Bible for science.

You are right. And the Bible also pretty clearly states that the Earth is a flat circle, not a rounded sphere. Do you know how difficult it would be to hang onto the bottom of a sphere?

I would love to see your article.

 

[AV1611VET]

Does anyone else here reject the idea that the Earth orbits the sun?

Sure ... why not? I need a challenge.

I'll reject it -- let's see where this goes, eh?

 

[CabVet]

This came up in the thread about solar theory, but I figured I'd bring it up here because I don't know how many people are reading it five pages in. Does anyone else here reject the idea that the Earth orbits the sun? The Bible is pretty clear that the Earth is fixed and immobile, and it's the sun that moves, and I'm surprised how many Christians are willing to reject the Bible for science.

Didn't you hear? When Jesus saw the entire world from the top of a tall mountain, what he really saw was a slide show.

The only reason why genesis was not twisted into evolution yet is because creationists mislead people so well that they do not trust on the evidence for evolution. But evidence for the earth rotating around the sun is hard to deny, even for creationists. So, instead of inventing lies about heliocentrism, they twist the Bible to fit it and say that the Bible never really denied it.

 

[AV1611VET]

Didn't you hear? When Jesus saw the entire world from the top of a tall mountain, what he really saw was a slide show.

Aside from Jesus not seeing the world from the top of a tall mountain, what does this have to do with rejecting the idea that the earth orbits the sun?

The only reason why genesis was not twisted into evolution yet is because creationists mislead people so well that they do not trust on the evidence for evolution.

What does evolution have to do with rejecting the idea that the earth orbits the sun?

Are you vying for my position as a derailer of threads?

(Of course, they won't accuse you of doing that ... just us.)

But evidence for the earth rotating around the sun is hard to deny, even for creationists.

I thought this thread was for deniers, not agreers?

If you even think you have evidence that the earth rotates around the sun, I would like to see it please.

So, instead of inventing lies about heliocentrism, they twist the Bible to fit it and say that the Bible never really denied it.

Your venting & ridiculing aside, do you mind if we handle this our way? or do you like to present our points of view better than your own?

 

[dysert]

You are right. And the Bible also pretty clearly states that the Earth is a flat circle, not a rounded sphere. Do you know how difficult it would be to hang onto the bottom of a sphere?

I would love to see your article.

Would you mind posting where the Bible "pretty clearly states that the Earth is a flat circle"? Thanks.

 

[CabVet]

What does evolution have to do with rejecting the idea that the earth orbits the sun?

Everything. Evolution is rejected by creationists because the evidence is not as clear as that for a spherical earth or an earth orbiting the sun. If it was, Genesis would just be considered a metaphor, just like the passages that say that the earth is flat and stationary are.

 

[AV1611VET]

Everything. Evolution is rejected by creationists because the evidence is not as clear as that for a spherical earth or an earth orbiting the sun. If it was, Genesis would just be considered a metaphor, just like the passages that say that the earth is flat and stationary are.

I vote we stick to the OP, and reject evolution elsewhere.

 

[CabVet]

Would you mind posting where the Bible "pretty clearly states that the Earth is a flat circle"? Thanks.

Job 26:10 He hath compassed the waters with bounds, until the day and night come to an end.

Isaiah 40:22 It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in

Daniel 4:10 Thus were the visions of mine head in my bed; I saw, and behold a tree in the midst of the earth, and the height thereof was great. 11 The tree grew, and was strong, and the height thereof reached unto heaven, and the sight thereof to the end of all the earth

Matthew 4:8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;

 

[CabVet]

I vote we stick to the OP, and reject evolution elsewhere.

I am sticking to the OP. All I did was explain why heliocentrism and a spherical earth are accepted (along many other things like eating pork) and evolution is not.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Would you mind posting where the Bible "pretty clearly states that the Earth is a flat circle"? Thanks.

Really? You can't Google search that for yourself? How about the New Testament? The Devil shows Jesus all the kingdoms of the Earth from a tall mountain. That feat could only be accomplished on a flat Earth. On a spherical Earth you would see on the order of 1 % of the Earth from the top of Mt. Everest.

There are many times when the Earth is described as "round" but the use of the word is always that of a flat disc in context and never that of a sphere. Check out Isaiah 40:22. The verse can apply to a flat disc but not to a round sphere. Also there is a Hebraic word for sphere, it is never used in describing the Earth.

By this omission and taking verses in context it can be seen that the Earth is always described as a flat disc.

 

[dysert]

Job 26:10 He hath compassed the waters with bounds, until the day and night come to an end.

Isaiah 40:22 It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in

Daniel 4:10 Thus were the visions of mine head in my bed; I saw, and behold a tree in the midst of the earth, and the height thereof was great. 11 The tree grew, and was strong, and the height thereof reached unto heaven, and the sight thereof to the end of all the earth

Matthew 4:8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;

Hmm, I don't see any of these clearly stating that the earth is a flat circle...

Job 26:10 - The waters are bounded. There are the beaches.

Isa. 40:22 - A sphere looks like a circle when seen from a distance.

Dan. 4:10-11 - Daniel is seeing visions.

Matt. 4:8 - The parallel is Luke 4:5, which says, "Then the devil, taking Him up on a high mountain, showed Him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time." Obviously, to see all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time, there was something supernatural going on. Perhaps this was via a vision. In any case, it's not a literal occurrence.

These certainly aren't "clearly stating" that the earth is a flat circle.

 

[dysert]

Really? You can't Google search that for yourself? How about the New Testament? The Devil shows Jesus all the kingdoms of the Earth from a tall mountain. That feat could only be accomplished on a flat Earth. On a spherical Earth you would see on the order of 1 % of the Earth from the top of Mt. Everest.

There are many times when the Earth is described as "round" but the use of the word is always that of a flat disc in context and never that of a sphere. Check out Isaiah 40:22. The verse can apply to a flat disc but not to a round sphere. Also there is a Hebraic word for sphere, it is never used in describing the Earth.

By this omission and taking verses in context it can be seen that the Earth is always described as a flat disc.

It would be pointless for me to Google something. I've read the Bible cover to cover about a dozen times. I think I'd remember reading if somewhere it's "clearly stated" that the earth is a flat circle. And I covered the two verses you're alluding to in my previous post.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Hmm, I don't see any of these clearly stating that the earth is a flat circle...

Job 26:10 - The waters are bounded. There are the beaches.

Are you sure? That one I will let slide.

Isa. 40:22 - A sphere looks like a circle when seen from a distance.

So what? That does not change the fact that it is describing a flat Earth. A tent will not hang over a sphere even at a distance.

Dan. 4:10-11 - Daniel is seeing visions.

Are you saying that Daniel was high? You might be right.

Matt. 4:8 - The parallel is Luke 4:5, which says, "Then the devil, taking Him up on a high mountain, showed Him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time." Obviously, to see all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time, there was something supernatural going on. Perhaps this was via a vision. In any case, it's not a literal occurrence.

What? You are trying to use what you know now as an excuse. There was no need to go to a high mountain. A cellar might be better if he just wanted to show Jesus a vision. And should it not have stated that this was a vision?

These certainly aren't "clearly stating" that the earth is a flat circle.

They are much more clearly stating that than some of the footloose translations of the Bible that we get from dad and his ilk.

We have shown how the Bible describes the world as flat. See if you can find any verse that describes the world as a sphere. And remember when in doubt context is king.

 

[Subduction Zone]

It would be pointless for me to Google something. I've read the Bible cover to cover about a dozen times. I think I'd remember reading if somewhere it's "clearly stated" that the earth is a flat circle. And I covered the two verses you're alluding to in my previous post.

Yes you did. And you failed rather poorly.
Once again, find a verse that from either translation of the actual words used or from context that describes the Earth as a sphere.

 

[CabVet]

Hmm, I don't see any of these clearly stating that the earth is a flat circle...

Of course you don't see it, and that was the point of my first post.

Job 26:10 - The waters are bounded. There are the beaches.

The bounds, as the verse clearly states, are where the sun sets and rises (what implies a flat earth).

Isa. 40:22 - A sphere looks like a circle when seen from a distance.

If the writer meant a sphere he would have used the word "sphere".

Dan. 4:10-11 - Daniel is seeing visions.

Visions of a flat earth.

Matt. 4:8 - The parallel is Luke 4:5, which says, "Then the devil, taking Him up on a high mountain, showed Him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time." Obviously, to see all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time, there was something supernatural going on. Perhaps this was via a vision. In any case, it's not a literal occurrence.

Why "obviously" there was something "supernatural"? And more importantly, why doesn't this logic apply to all of the Bible? Isn't a 6-day creation something that would also be "supernatural"?

These certainly aren't "clearly stating" that the earth is a flat circle.

It is at least as clear as Genesis. Yet, Genesis is taken literally but these are not.

 

[jayem]

Leaving aside geocentrism, the Earth's location in space really doesn't square with the Genesis legend. God spent at least 4 of the 6 days of Creation just on our planet. The Sun, the stars, and all the rest of the Cosmos were created in one day. So why would God have his pièce de résistance as the 3rd of several planets, orbiting a totally non-descript star, near the edge of an ordinary galaxy? Imagine an artist doing a series of 20 paintings. 19 of these, he completes in a month or so. But one takes him 4 months. When he's finally done, he pronounces it good. Would he exhibit that one work off in a dark side room? Or would it it have the most prominent place in the gallery?

 

[46AND2]

OP,

I assume you also think the rest of the universe revolves around the earth, too? If so, how do you account for Neptune (and anything farther away than Neptune) needing to move faster than the speed of light in order satisfy the geocentric model?

 

[AV1611VET]

OP,

I assume you also think the rest of the universe revolves around the earth, too? If so, how do you account for Neptune (and anything farther away than Neptune) needing to move faster than the speed of light in order satisfy the geocentric model?

Hmmm ... good question!

 

[Subduction Zone]

Here is the first of a series of videos on testing geocentrism:

Testing Geocentrism - Part 1 - YouTube