Did Christ really pay the sin debt?

[Stryder06]

Would you agree that the reason they had to leave was that nothing less than perfect could stay?

God be gracious to me a sinner.

No. The reason they had to leave was given to us in the scripture:

And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
23 Therefore the Lord God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.

 

[Hentenza]

I can't go for that...no... no can do... I can't go for that... can't go for that.. can't go for that..

God be gracious to me a sinner.

lol You gotta!!!!

 

[Stryder06]

That which appeases God's wrath and justice.

True, but what must be paid to settle the debt which appeases God's wrath and justice?

Then the Lord God said.................

יְהוָ֣ה= YAHWEH

אֱלֹהִ֗ים= God

EDIT: Which verse are you referencing?

 

[Hentenza]

True, but what must be paid to settle the debt which appeases God's wrath and justice?

Jesus' human life paid the debt.

EDIT: Which verse are you referencing?

The phrase "Lord God" appears 7 times in Genesis 3 (NASB). Take your pick.

 

[Stryder06]

Jesus' human life paid the debt.

You keep saying that Jesus paid the debt, but you're not saying what the debt was.

The phrase "Lord God" appears 7 times in Genesis 3 (NASB). Take your pick.[/quote]

Ok. So when I look it up I'm seeing
And the LORD יהוה H3068 Yehovah 26God אלהים H0430 'elohiym

 

[Hentenza]

You keep saying that Jesus paid the debt, but you're not saying what the debt was.

The debt is that which Jesus paid to redeem us. Are you looking for a specific answer?

Ok. So when I look it up I'm seeing
And the LORD יהוה H3068 Yehovah 26God אלהים H0430 'elohiym

Yes.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Jesus' human life paid the debt.

The phrase "Lord God" appears 7 times in Genesis 3 (NASB). Take your pick.

It appears 8 times in Revelation [NASB]

Strong's Concordance with Hebrew and Greek Lexicon

Blue Letter Bible - Search Results for NASB
"lord god"
occurs in 1590 verses in the NASB, including 434 exact phrases shown first.

1st time used Revelation:

Rev 1:8
"I 1473 am 1510 the Alpha 1 and 2532 the Omega 5598," says 3004 the Lord 2962 God 2316, "who 3588 is 1510 and 2532 who 3588 was 1510 and 2532 who 3588 is to come 2064, the Almighty 3841."

 

[Hentenza]

It appears 8 times in Revelation [NASB]

Strong's Concordance with Hebrew and Greek Lexicon

Blue Letter Bible - Search Results for NASB
"lord god"
occurs in 1590 verses in the NASB, including 434 exact phrases shown first.

1st time used Revelation:

Thanks.

 

[bugkiller]

The debt is that which Jesus paid to redeem us. Are you looking for a specific answer?

He keeps forgetting to PM the required answer.

bugkiller

 

[Stryder06]

The debt is that which Jesus paid to redeem us. Are you looking for a specific answer?

I am. I'm wondering if the debt is believed to be something else besides what's stated in Rom 6:23

Yes.

So how do you know this is the Father? For example, the bible says that Christ created all things, and in Genesis it says that all things were created by "The Lord God". If we link those two together, then we would be correct to say that "The Lord God" spoken of in Genesis is Christ. Do you agree?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by LittleLambofJesus It appears 8 times in Revelation [NASB]

Thanks.

Another thing I find rather fascinating is, the word "almighty" is used only 1 other time outside of Revelation in the NT, and that is in 2 Corin 6:8

http://www.blueletterbible.org/search/translationResults.cfm?Criteria=almighty&t=NKJV&sf=5
"almighty"
occurs 57 times in 57 verses in the KJV

http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H7706&t=KJV
Strong's Number H7706 matches the Hebrew שַׁדַּי (Shadday), which occurs 48 times in 48 verses in the Hebrew concordance

http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G3841&t=NKJV
Strong's Number G3841 matches the Greek παντοκράτωρ (pantokratōr), which occurs 10 times in 10 verses in the Greek concordance

2Cr 6:18
And 2532 will be 2071 1519 a Father 3962 unto you 5213, and 2532 ye 5210 shall be 2071 my 3427 sons 5207 1519 and 2532 daughters 2364, saith 3004 the Lord 2962 Almighty 3841.

 

[Yab Yum]

Only one has ever attained number 1.

Of course.

 

[bugkiller]

It's only paying a debt if that is what's owed. What does the bible say is the sin debt?



Where?

Does Romans 6:23 say the wages of sin is death? It does not get any simpler.

bugkiller

 

[Yab Yum]

This was not a payoff to the father. Nor was it a payoff to the devil.

^^^ This is the point.

It's not necessary that Jesus "paid a debt" on the cross for God to wipe clean the debts of mankind, only that Jesus' life and death were perfect in their love and obedience to the Father.

The former turns Christ into a cosmic plumber trying to fix a leak. The latter reveals him as our teacher, prophet, priest and king.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

It's only paying a debt if that is what's owed. What does the bible say is the sin debt?

Where?

You may like to gander at this previous post of mind and we can discuss this members' view of it:

http://www.christianforums.com/t7714267-13/#post62138755

Originally Posted by OrthodoxyUSA There is no such thing as a sin debt.

Originally Posted by Stryder06 I meant to ask you about this.
I read what you quoted and wasn't finding any correlation as to how this showed that there isn't a sin debt. Mind explaining it to me?

Here is a rather unique perspective on that:

http://www.christianforums.com/t4677762-5/#post31188562
Did you know debt means sin?

.

 

[bugkiller]

I am. I'm wondering if the debt is believed to be something else besides what's stated in Rom 6:23



So how do you know this is the Father? For example, the bible says that Christ created all things, and in Genesis it says that all things were created by "The Lord God". If we link those two together, then we would be correct to say that "The Lord God" spoken of in Genesis is Christ. Do you agree?

Nope! Mainly cause it does not fit in other places.


bugkiller

 

[fhansen]

So according to most, the penalty for sin is not actually death, but is eternal torment in hell fire. If this then is the case, how is it that Christ paid our sin debt?

Heaven, existence with God, is eternal life. Hell, existence apart from God, is eternal death.

 

[Stryder06]

Heaven, existence with God, is eternal life. Hell, existence apart from God, is eternal death.

Existence and death don't go hand and hand. You can't exist and be dead simultaneously. Alas that will take us off topic so I digress.

 

[bugkiller]

Existence and death don't go hand and hand. You can't exist and be dead simultaneously. Alas that will take us off topic so I digress.

That is because you do not understand death.

bugkiller

 

[Stryder06]

^^^ This is the point.

It's not necessary that Jesus "paid a debt" on the cross for God to wipe clean the debts of mankind, only that Jesus' life and death were perfect in their love and obedience to the Father.

The former turns Christ into a cosmic plumber trying to fix a leak. The latter reveals him as our teacher, prophet, priest and king.

This is incorrect. There can be no remission of sin without the shedding of blood. Christ could have been our Teacher and Prophet, and King without dying. There is no way He could have been our Priest though if the sacrifice wasn't necessary seeing as the Priest's function requires a sacrifice.