Did Christ really pay the sin debt?

[bugkiller]

That doesn't make sense. The wicked are lost because their debt remains unpaid. When we accpet Christ His righteousness becomes our own, and out debt is forgiven because of His sacrifice.

The wicked have no Mediator. Their debt remains unsatisfied. That is why they are lost.

Only because they will not acept the Mediator. Their perosonal problem not ours. Our job is to find the ones who will acept the Mediator.

bugkiller

 

[Hentenza]

Quick thought: it occurs to me there is a difference between

1) living a life in perfect love and obedience toward the Father the result of which is the Father wiping clean the debt of humankind; and

2) paying a debt the result of which is the Father wiping clean the debt of humankind.

Only one has ever attained number 1.

 

[bugkiller]

The purpose of this thread isn't to question if one is saved. It's an examination of the debt owed by the sinner.

Who would that be? If one is saved is the debt paid?

bugkiller

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

I believe it was Christ that told them they had to leave. What I'm saying however is that the Father, Son, and Spirit were in agreement that they had to go. The decision was made in Heaven, and Christ delivered it to them on earth.

Would you agree that the reason they had to leave was that nothing less than perfect could stay?

God be gracious to me a sinner.

 

[bugkiller]

Granted that death entered the world through sin, but the bible when talking about death is often referring to the second death in the lake of fire. Notice the contrast?:

Romans 6:23

For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

The contrast of death here to eternal life shows that it is equally enduring, thus it is referring to the second death in the lake of fire.

bugkiller

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Would make for an interesting thread

http://www.christianforums.com/t4894702-7/#post32295850
My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

Originally Posted by OrthodoxyUSA


Many are confused as to why Christ said these words while hanging on the cross at the ninth hour (Friday 3PM).

Do you understand the meaning?

Forgive me...

Christ was quoting the psalms. Or... were the psalms quoting Christ!


God be gracious to me a sinner.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Because a picture is worth a thousand words.

God be gracious to me a sinner.

 

[98cwitr]

Christ was quoting the psalms. Or... were the psalms quoting Christ!


God be gracious to me a sinner.

this +1!

 

[bugkiller]

I read what you wrote, but it would seem as if you're still not understanding the question. Christ paid the penalty for sin so that those who accept Him can be saved. Those who reject Christ must pay that penalty themselves.

If the penalty/payment/debt owed for sin is eternal suffering in Hell fire, then Christ didn't fulfill that debt, so our payment remains.

No acceptence is required to complete the deal Jesus made. If not accepted there is no deal.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

The wages of sin is death. This means the sinner has to make payment (thus a debt is owed). The explanation provided by you doesn't seem to say much of anything in that agrees with what the bible says.

And what is the sinner going to pay with?

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

It really asks a simple question Crib. It's well known what I believe as an Adventist in regards to the state of the dead so there's no need to try to "expose" me there buddy.

The question is simple. If the debt that has to be paid by the wicked is eternal life in hell, how did Christ pay that debt?

Do you think the answer is no?

bugkiller

 

[Cribstyl]

It really asks a simple question Crib. It's well known what I believe as an Adventist in regards to the state of the dead so there's no need to try to "expose" me there buddy.

The question is simple. If the debt that has to be paid by the wicked is eternal life in hell, how did Christ pay that debt?

Yes your question is simple, "How did Christ pay the debt for sin? Stryder, you're adding a subliminal message that there is no eternal hell for the wicked.

The simple bible answers to your question is: Jesus payed our debts by redemption with His blood. His death was the ransom for the sins of the world.
Here are scripture that teach the truth....... Mat 20:28Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.
Gal 1:4Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:

Mat 26:28For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.


Tts 2:14Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.


1Ti 2:6Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.


1Jo 5:5Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?


Rev 5:9And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;


It quite clear in the scriptures that only those who believe in Christ Jesus can be redemed by His blood.
The rest are the wicked who reject the truth of the word, they can claim that they made efforts to keep His laws.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by Tiredknight

If this is what your referring to... it says God drove them out not Jesus.
​

uh oh....

http://www.christianforums.com/t7651548/
How is Jesus God?

Btw, are we allowed to discuss the "trinity" on GT? Just wondering



.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by Stryder06 The Father Created all things through Christ (John 1:3, Col 1:16). And I do believe their exile was a joint agreement?

Originally Posted by Tiredknight If this is what your referring to... it says God drove them out, not Jesus.

Originally Posted by LittleLambofJesus

uh oh....

http://www.christianforums.com/t7651548/
How is Jesus God?

​

Christ was quoting the psalms. Or... were the psalms quoting Christ!


God be gracious to me a sinner.

What would you think?


.


..

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

God be gracious to me a sinner.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

I think it important to recognize these phrases from scripture about our owing something... a debt, are metaphors attempting to express the desperation of our situation. Not that anyone was demanding a ransom.

There was a price to be paid... but it wasn't to "who", but rather for what.

To cure the illness of mankind Christ 'paying' the ultimate price was medicinal, so that we might partake in his death and resurrection through baptism and not be totally undone. The possibility of mankind being spiritually healed was the payoff!

This was not a payoff to the father. Nor was it a payoff to the devil.

God be gracious to me a sinner.

 

[Stryder06]

And the answer is simple. Besides having to humble Himself, cooperating with His human nature, enduring the passion, and dying for your sins, at that time, when He gave up His spirit God forsook Him. Now, that is paying a debt.

It's only paying a debt if that is what's owed. What does the bible say is the sin debt?

Because the bible says so.

Where?

 

[Stryder06]

Yes your question is simple, "How did Christ pay the debt for sin? Stryder, you're adding a subliminal message that there is no eternal hell for the wicked.

The simple bible answers to your question is: Jesus payed our debts by redemption with His blood. His death was the ransom for the sins of the world.
Here are scripture that teach the truth....... Mat 20:28Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.
Gal 1:4Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:
Stryder, the bible teaches that He died in our place, but you keep repeating that

Mat 26:28For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.


Tts 2:14Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.


1Ti 2:6Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.


1Jo 5:5Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?


Rev 5:9And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;


It quite clear in the scriptures that only those who believe in Christ Jesus can be redemed by His blood.
The rest are the wicked who reject the truth of the word, they can claim that they made efforts to keep His laws.

Do you have an answer to the question or not? If you keep on with this I'll have to report you for going off topic purposely in an attempt to "expose my true motives".

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

God forsook Him.

I can't go for that...no... no can do... I can't go for that... can't go for that.. can't go for that..

God be gracious to me a sinner.

 

[Hentenza]

It's only paying a debt if that is what's owed. What does the bible say is the sin debt?

That which appeases God's wrath and justice.

Where?

Then the Lord God said.................

יְהוָ֣ה= YAHWEH

אֱלֹהִ֗ים= God