Judaeo, Judaic, Judaizers, Judaize, Judaism

[GuardianShua]

Nicene Creed... was there any body of believers invited outside catholic doctrine and compliance?

All of those who were opposed to the Trinitarian doctrine were excluded from the vote. The vote took place without the others knowing about it. Naturally it was a unanimous vote in favor. There is a historical document somewhere about that.

 

[FreeinChrist]

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[LadyOfMystery]

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This thread is still closed for review until further notice. It has also been through a clean up, so if you see a post of yours gone, this is why.

Please contact me or another staff member if you have any questions.

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[Tishri1]

reopening please be mindful of topics restricted in this area(see previous mod hats)

 

[GuardianShua]

Historical Notes.

In the first century AD, the Romans would inscribe the figures of dragons on their standards to be carried into battle. The book of Revelations was also written about the same time dragons were first used as a military emblems by the Roman legions. During that time when Rome was a world power, the Jews symbolically called Rome, "Babylon." And the city of Rome was also called "The City of the Seven Hills."
The seven hills were referred to as gods, and to a Jew that is blasphemy. Capitoline Hill, is one of the Seven Hills of Rome, and is where Jupiter was worshiped in a temple on Capitoline hill.
Under the empire,(dressed in red) the Saturnalia was celebrated for seven days, from December 17 to 23, during the period in which the winter solstice occurred. All business was suspended, slaves were given temporary freedom, gifts were exchanged, and merriment prevailed.

The emperor Constantine called a council of nearly 300 bishops to settle the matter of the nature of Christ; although only a fraction turned up. The first ecumenical council of the Christian church took place in Nicaea, now in modern Turkey (c.325), 294 years after the death of Christ.


Jesus was declared to be of the “same substance” with the Father. Arius was branded a heretic and banished to one of the remote provinces of Illyricum. The conclusion was ambiguous and settled nothing. The ruling of the Emperor was clear. He quickly issued letters denouncing Arius, and ordered that anyone found with a copy of his writings must burn it or be put to death.
Concerning the nature of Christ, the first Nicene Creed reads: “The Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church anathematizes those who say that there was a time when the Son of God was not; and that before he was begotten he was not, and that he was made out of nothing, or out of another substance or essence, and is created, or changeable, or alterable.”
At the Council of Nicaea, the debate was over the nature of Christ (begotten vs unbegotten). The nature of the Spirit was not an issue. It would be another fifty-six years before the institutional church would decree worship of the Holy Spirit.


History records Emperor Constantine as a criminal. He had murdered his son Crispus, his nephew Licenius, and suffocated in a steam-bath his wife of twenty years Fausta, mother of three of his sons. The public abhorrence of his deeds could not be concealed. A plaque comparing his reign to that of Nero was affixed to the palace gate. Constantine threatened to massacre the Roman populace who had insulted him.
This is the same Constantine who faked a “conversion” to Christ, but not wanting to antagonize his pagan fellows, waited until he lay on his death bed to be “baptized” (just in case there is indeed a judgment). He is the same who decreed that Christians and pagans should “rest” on the same day - Sunday. This same Constantine who said he was head of the Christian church, was also the Pagan high priest at the same time.

Constantine's Son who took over the reign as Emperor, followed Arius teaching. Constantine's favorite sister was also a supporter of the disreputed teacher. She prevailed upon her brother and barely three years after the date of the council, Arius was restored to favor. He was treated by the whole court with the respect which would have been due to an innocent and oppressed man. His faith was approved by the synod of Jerusalem; and the emperor seemed impatient to repair his injustice. He issued a royal command that Arius should receive the holy communion in the cathedral of Constantinople.
But on the same day which had been fixed for His triumph, Arius died very suddenly and under strange circumstances. The opponents of Arius said that God had answered their prayers and saved the church from the worst of her enemies. The three principle leaders of the Catholics, Athanasius of Alexandria, Eustathius of Antioch, and Paul of Constantinople were deposed, accused by numerous councils; and were afterwards banished to distant provinces.
The believers were left to choose what they would believe with regard to the death of Arius - be it miracle or poisoning.


In the following years the political foes continue to struggle and finally the Arians were overthrown.
The religious/political controversy caused widespread bloodshed and killing. In 381 AD, Emperor Theodosius (a Trinitarian) convened a council in Constantinople.
Only Trinitarian bishops were invited to attend. 150 bishops attended and voted to alter the Nicene creed to include the Holy Spirit as a part of the Godhead. The Trinity doctrine was now official for both the church and the state. Dissident bishops were expelled from the church, and excommunicated.

 

[GuardianShua]

Bump.

 

[CherubRam]

According to the early Church historian Eusebius, himself a Gentile Bishop of Caesarea Maritima in the Holy Land, from 314 to 338 AD, he provides a list of 13 successive Bishops of Jerusalem, from the time of the death of Simeon in 107 A.D. It is interesting to note that he remarks that. Quote: "they were all [Judaeo / Judaic] Christians." In other words, they were a bunch of Judaizers.

The Council of Laodicea around A.D. 364 decreed 59 Canon laws.
Canon XXIX: “Christians must not Judaize by resting on the Sabbath, but must work on that day, rather honoring the Lord’s Day; and, if they can, resting then as Christians. But if any shall be found to be Judaizers, let them be anathema from Christ.”


Judaize
Darby translation.
Gal 2;14. But when I saw that they do not walk straightforwardly, according to the truth of the glad tidings, I said to Peter before all, If *thou*, being a Jew, livest as the nations and not as the Jews, how dost thou compel the nations to Judaize? Or: How will you compel the nations to Judaize?


#1. Constantine the Great was the Pagan high priest until the day he died. He faked his baptism the first time to please his fellow pagans. He did not get baptized until he was on his death bed. He also proclaimed himself head of the Christian Church.
#2. According to scripture a Jew is a convert to Judaism. Before people were called Christians they were called converts to Judaism.
#3. The Judaeo (Judaizing) Christians did not take part in the persecution of the Jews. However, the Jews, and the Pagans, and the Gnostic's, and the Protestants killed almost every [Judaeo / Judaizing] Christian until almost none were left alive.
Enoch 89:5. I also cried out, and groaned in my sleep against the shepherd which overlooked the flock. 6. And I looked, while the sheep were eaten up by the dogs, by the eagles, and by the kites. They neither left them their body, nor their skin, nor their muscles, until their bones alone remained; and until their bones fell upon the ground. And the sheep became very few.

Now days most every protestant Church say that they are the true Judaeo Christians.

An exercise in walnut harvesting: When the tree is shaken all the nuts fall out.


The term Judeo-Christian is theologically, philosophically, and historically evident and universally accepted. However, a lot of historians, politicians, and congregations disagree with it. The term is synonymous with Judaizing. The New Testament Covenant is in fact the replacement of the Old Covenant and priesthood, with Christ as the head of the priesthood. Regardless if a person chooses to accept it, it still remains a fact of life.

Judaizers were those who kept the commandments of God and the testimony of Yahshua. They were despised by others because they also rejected the authority of the Pope, Sunday Sabbath, Trinitarianism, Hell, and the joining of any Pagan beliefs to God.

 

[daq]

Okay, I got a question on Gal. 2:14, for the life of me every time I see the verse the answer just escapes me. It's probably something I already know, but just don't connect it to that verse. Here it is: What was Peter doing that would have been "judaizing"? The passage states that Peter was living as the gentiles so what was he doing that was compelling the gentiles to live as Jews?

I remember one day when I finally got fed up and looked into the mirror of the Law and then likewise I went before a mirror to take a look at myself. And when I saw myself for what was on the inside I stood in opposition to the one looking back at me in the mirror and said: Get thee behind me Bel-dak! thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men! And eventually it did come to pass that the fiery mountain was cast into the sea. But, of course, I would never physically stand in opposition to my brother in such a way before the congregation. Perhaps it is the same with Petros-Paulos?

Acts 15:7 KJV
7. And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.

 

[macher]

The passage clearly states that Peter was living as the gentiles lived - so in what way could he have been compelling the gentiles to live as Jews? According to Paul, Peter wasn't living as a Jew any loner, he was living as the gentiles. Again, according to Paul, which was Peter doing? living as a gentile or as a Jew? He could only be doing one or the other. And if he truly was living as a gentile, then what could he possibly be doing that would be compelling gentiles to live as Jews?

Peter wasn't living as a Gentile. The issue was eating with uncircumcised men. Living as a Jew meant that Jews halachally didn't mingle with uncircumcised men, 'you know it's unlawful for a Jew to mingle with Gentiles'. The Torah doesn't forbid mingling with Gentiles but forbids mingling with pagans.

The issue was resolved somewhat at the Jerusalem Council. James admitted the men he sent to Antioch caused trouble.

Acts 15:24
We have heard that some went out from us without our authorization and disturbed you, troubling your minds by what they said.

 

[visionary]

Peter wasn't living as a Gentile. The issue was eating with uncircumcised men. Living as a Jew meant that Jews halachally didn't mingle with uncircumcised men, 'you know it's unlawful for a Jew to mingle with Gentiles'. The Torah doesn't forbid mingling with Gentiles but forbids mingling with pagans.

The issue was resolved somewhat at the Jerusalem Council. James admitted the men he sent to Antioch caused trouble.

Acts 15:24
We have heard that some went out from us without our authorization and disturbed you, troubling your minds by what they said.

Exactly... in the Jewish mind, associating with Gentiles was "living as a Gentile"... Living exclusively in the Jewish community was living as a Jew.

 

[yedida]

Thanks for the attempt at answers, but it still makes no sense to me. If a Jewish person sits down at the breakfast table with me and chomps into a plate of eggs, sausage and bacon, just what is there about that person acting like me that's gonna compel me to act like him? no sense in that accusation whatsoever, none.....

 

[macher]

Thanks for the attempt at answers, but it still makes no sense to me. If a Jewish person sits down at the breakfast table with me and chomps into a plate of eggs, sausage and bacon, just what is there about that person acting like me that's gonna compel me to act like him? no sense in that accusation whatsoever, none.....

You got to get Lancaster's book Holy Epistle to the Galatians.

This is what Lancaster says. "If you, though a Jew, live like a Gentile in regard to fellowshipping with Gentiles, and not like a Jew who separates from them, how then can you force the Gentiles to become Jews?”

 

[yedida]

You got to get Lancaster's book Holy Epistle to the Galatians.

This is what Lancaster says. "If you, though a Jew, live like a Gentile in regard to fellowshipping with Gentiles, and not like a Jew who separates from them, how then can you force the Gentiles to become Jews?”

I have the book. And your last question is exactly what I'm saying. There was nothing that Peter was doing that would compel me to be like him in that situation alone, because he would have been behaving as my people - no differentiation.
I just don't see how his actions would compel me to become what he is saying he has left behind. That's just stupid, and I don't think Peter was a stupid man.....

 

[pat34lee]

Thanks for the attempt at answers, but it still makes no sense to me. If a Jewish person sits down at the breakfast table with me and chomps into a plate of eggs, sausage and bacon, just what is there about that person acting like me that's gonna compel me to act like him? no sense in that accusation whatsoever, none.....

It started with the tradition that Jews cannot eat with gentiles, whether the food is kosher or not. That was what Peter's vision was about, and he started eating (fellowshipping) with them. When the other Jews came, Peter distanced himself from the gentile believers and eating with the Jews exclusively, which is why Paul called him a hypocrite.

The Jews were part of a group that thought that the gentile believers must be circumcised and converted before being accepted as part of the believers' community. Peter must have been buying into it. This is what they were trying to compel them to be like the Jews was about.

 

[yedida]

It started with the tradition that Jews cannot eat with gentiles, whether the food is kosher or not. That was what Peter's vision was about, and he started eating (fellowshipping) with them. When the other Jews came, Peter distanced himself from the gentile believers and eating with the Jews exclusively, which is why Paul called him a hypocrite.

The Jews were part of a group that thought that the gentile believers must be circumcised and converted before being accepted as part of the believers' community. Peter must have been buying into it. This is what they were trying to compel them to be like the Jews was about.

It must be something like that cos otherwise the whole premise makes no sense whatsoever regardless what the custom was at the time.

 

[macher]

It started with the tradition that Jews cannot eat with gentiles, whether the food is kosher or not. That was what Peter's vision was about, and he started eating (fellowshipping) with them. When the other Jews came, Peter distanced himself from the gentile believers and eating with the Jews exclusively, which is why Paul called him a hypocrite.

The Jews were part of a group that thought that the gentile believers must be circumcised and converted before being accepted as part of the believers' community. Peter must have been buying into it. This is what they were trying to compel them to be like the Jews was about.

You also have to consider that Halacha was much more lax in the diaspora as we read Gentiles were present in the synagogues in the diaspora. Peter made his home in Judea and adopted the more strict Halacha. Peter should have known this being brought up in a more lax area.

This is why there was a Court of the Gentiles. You can kind of see why there was a Court of the Gentiles. I'm not advocating it I'm just pointing out strict Halacha in the land compared to the diaspora.

 

[yedida]

It's just that people (mostly mainstream christians) try to use that particular argument between Peter and Paul as a doctrine against Torah observance. And they way they interpret a small portion of a disagreement between two men 2 millenia ago just doesn't make any sense. We have just a portion of what was said and even less of what was actually going on - doctrines shouldn't be built on such a situation.

 

[yonah_mishael]

The real bottem line is that people are following the beast of Revelation.

Let's just clarify this. When you say "people," you mean "Christians," don't you?

 

[visionary]

Let's just clarify this. When you say "people," you mean "Christians," don't you?

Vague answers might be best left as is? Glad to see you posting, was starting to worry that you got into trouble which I didn't want to see. You are a far too valuable linguistic specialist which our forum needs.

 

[yedida]

Let's just clarify this. When you say "people," you mean "Christians," don't you?

Yes, glad to see you're still around! We don't agree on most things spiritually concerned but that hasn't seemed to get in the way of fun fellowshipping with each other!