medical students boycotting lectures on evolution

[Jamin4422]

And you are right, the articles do speak for themselves.

This is what they say: "
Scans show more activity when religious people meditate"

 

[46AND2]

This is what they say: "
Scans show more activity when religious people meditate"

But that isn't what you claimed, is it?

What happens when atheists meditate?

 

[46AND2]

This is what they say: "
Scans show more activity when religious people meditate"

Also, you realize that many Buddhists are atheists, right? Were the Tibetan monks in this study atheists?

 

[Jamin4422]

Also, you realize that many Buddhists are atheists, right?

Buddists are not atheists. If they are anything it would be non theistic. My brother is a Buddhist and I have read a few books written by Buddhists, so I know a little bit about it.

 

[46AND2]

Buddists are not atheists. If they are anything it would be non theistic. My brother is a Buddhist and I have read a few books written by Buddhists, so I know a little bit about it.

What, pray tell, is the difference between a nontheist and an atheist?

 

[Jamin4422]

What happens when atheists meditate?

I would expect they could at least accomplish the placebo effect. It is very difficult to go beyond the placebo effect. Drug companies spend a lot of money trying to prove to the FDA that their drug does more then what you would get from a placebo. Duke university has produced some studies that do show the benefit for prayer and for Christianity. Other people have had trouble to duplicate that research. So the problem is not to present evidence. The problem is when you go to verify that evidence. Also as a general rule the people who are able to get results usually do not feel any need to have to prove themselves to atheists. There really is no reason to. Even we are told: "[FONT=arial, sans-serif]Do not give what is [/FONT]holy[FONT=arial, sans-serif] to the [/FONT]dogs[FONT=arial, sans-serif]; nor cast your pearls before swine."[/FONT] Dogs and Swine were considered to be "UNCLEAN'. So people who are not holy and sanctified are unclean and unable to know or appreciate the things of God. Even so called believers can be unclean if they are not living holy sanctified lives before God.

 

[46AND2]

I would expect they could at least accomplish the placebo effect. It is very difficult to go beyond the placebo effect. Drug companies spend a lot of money trying to prove to the FDA that their drug does more then what you would get from a placebo. Duke university has produced some studies that do show the benefit for prayer and for Christianity. Other people have had trouble to duplicate that research. So the problem is not to present evidence. The problem is when you go to verify that evidence. Also as a general rule the people who are able to get results usually do not feel any need to have to prove themselves to atheists. There really is no reason to. Even we are told: "[FONT=arial, sans-serif]Do not give what is [/FONT]holy[FONT=arial, sans-serif] to the [/FONT]dogs[FONT=arial, sans-serif]; nor cast your pearls before swine."[/FONT] Dogs and Swine were considered to be "UNCLEAN'. So people who are not holy and sanctified are unclean and unable to know or appreciate the things of God. Even so called believers can be unclean if they are not living holy sanctified lives before God.

You claimed that religious people had better developed brains than atheists and that it was demonstrated in brain scans. Yet, the scan you presented was from a study that didn't even test atheists (unless, the Tibetans were atheists, which would falsify your claim), and furthermore represented a brainscan that didn't even show brain development, but activity, of the SAME person, based on whether he was meditating or not.

Now do you see how you misrepresented the claims of the papers?

So you'll understand if I place little weight to what you state in this post.

 

[sfs]

You claimed that religious people had better developed brains than atheists and that it was demonstrated in brain scans. Yet, the scan you presented was from a study that didn't even test atheists (unless, the Tibetans were atheists, which would falsify your claim), and furthermore represented a brainscan that didn't even show brain development, but activity, of the SAME person, based on whether he was meditating or not.

Is this correct, Jamin? Did you really mangle a study this badly?

 

[Jamin4422]

What, pray tell, is the difference between a nontheist and an atheist?

Actually the question should be what is the difference beween a nontheist and an agnostic. A theist believes in a diety and atheist does NOT believe in a Deity. For me I think it is very logical to be a fence sitter. To be neutral and not commit one way or the other. But God does not allow that. Your in our out. You have to decide one way or the other. God requires us to make a choice. The atheist has done what God requires of them so their choice is NOT to believe in a God or a deity.

3:15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. 3:16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

 

[46AND2]

Actually the question should be what is the difference beween a nontheist and an agnostic. A theist believes in a diety and atheist does NOT believe in a Deity. For me I think it is very logical to be a fence sitter. To be neutral and not commit one way or the other. But God does not allow that. Your in our out. You have to decide one way or the other. God requires us to make a choice. The atheist has done what God requires of them so their choice is NOT to believe in a God or a deity.

3:15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. 3:16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

As I suspected, your non-theist is based on a fundamental misunderstanding of what an atheist and/or agnostic is.

I have made no decision that there is not a god. I just have not been convinced that there is. I have also not been convinced there is not. I am both agnostic, and atheistic.

 

[Jamin4422]

Is this correct, Jamin?

I am still looking for the study on church attendance, empathy and brain scans. Here is a book that may be of interest to you:

God is great—for your mental, physical, and spiritual health. Based on new evidence culled from brain-scan studies, a wide-reaching survey of people’s religious and spiritual experiences, and the authors’ analyses of adult drawings of God, neuroscientist Andrew Newberg and therapist Mark Robert Waldman offer the following breakthrough discoveries:

• Not only do prayer and spiritual practice reduce stress, but just twelve minutes of meditation per day may slow down the aging process.
• Contemplating a loving God rather than a punitive God reduces anxiety and depression and increases feelings of security, compassion, and love.
• Fundamentalism, in and of itself, can be personally beneficial, but the prejudice generated by extreme beliefs can permanently damage your brain.
• Intense prayer and meditation permanently change numerous structures and functions in the brain, altering your values and the way you perceive reality.

Both a revelatory work of modern science and a practical guide for readers to enhance their physical and emotional health, How God Changes Your Brain is a first-of-a-kind book about faith that is as credible as it is inspiring.

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1879179,00.html

 

[Tiberius]

Actually, that's wrong. From what you provided, it appears that the BELIEF in God is what causes the changes, not God himself. A belief in the Invisible Pink Unicorn would produce those same changes.

 

[Nabobalis]

Actually, that's wrong. From what you provided, it appears that the BELIEF in God is what causes the changes, not God himself. A belief in the Invisible Pink Unicorn would produce those same changes.

Or any other god for that matter.

 

[Wiccan_Child]

Or any other god for that matter.

Or no god at all, in the cast of Buddhists or other atheists who happen to meditate (such as myself). Ironically, the study Jamin cited used Tibetan Buddhists.

 

[Nabobalis]

Or no god at all, in the cast of Buddhists or other atheists who happen to meditate (such as myself). Ironically, the study Jamin cited used Tibetan Buddhists.

I've never considered meditating, is it good?

 

[Elendur]

I've never considered meditating, is it good?

It is, I've heard of results that are affecting stress levels, measurable both in performance and the condition of the body.

From personal experience, during the years I meditated (or rather, just tried to picture a mental wipe) for 2-3 times each week, I was less affected by my own 'hauntings'.

I recommend it, you've only got a couple of hours to lose.

Short-term meditation training improves attention and self-regulation

Abstract Recent studies suggest that months to years of intensive and systematic meditation training can improve attention. However, the lengthy training required has made it difficult to use random assignment of participants to conditions to confirm these findings. This article shows that a group randomly assigned to 5 days of meditation practice with the integrative body–mind training method shows significantly better attention and control of stress than a similarly chosen control group given relaxation training. The training method comes from traditional Chinese medicine and incorporates aspects of other meditation and mindfulness training. Compared with the control group, the experimental group of 40 undergraduate Chinese students given 5 days of 20-min integrative training showed greater improvement in conflict scores on the Attention Network Test, lower anxiety, depression, anger, and fatigue, and higher vigor on the Profile of Mood States scale, a significant decrease in stress-related cortisol, and an increase in immunoreactivity. These results provide a convenient method for studying the influence of meditation training by using experimental and control methods similar to those used to test drugs or other interventions.

 

[Tiberius]

And funnily enough, I'm still waiting for someone to tell me how doctors will explain why I need an immunization for the flu each year if they refuse to believe in evolution...

 

[Jamin4422]

And funnily enough, I'm still waiting for someone to tell me how doctors will explain why I need an immunization for the flu each year if they refuse to believe in evolution...

Flu shots are a scam. They can not always show that the shots help anyone at all. In other words far to often the people who get the shots do not have any less flu then the people that do not get the shots.

 

[Tiberius]

Flu shots are a scam. They can not always show that the shots help anyone at all. In other words far to often the people who get the shots do not have any less flu then the people that do not get the shots.

Got a source for this claim?

And even if that were true, you still need to do the full course of antibiotics when you have them. Do you know why? because of evolution!

 

[Nabobalis]

It is, I've heard of results that are affecting stress levels, measurable both in performance and the condition of the body.

From personal experience, during the years I meditated (or rather, just tried to picture a mental wipe) for 2-3 times each week, I was less affected by my own 'hauntings'.

I recommend it, you've only got a couple of hours to lose.

Short-term meditation training improves attention and self-regulation

Interesting, I'll have to read that paper sometime soon.

Any links on how to mediate?