Originally Posted by Jamin4422
Homeless people are homeless for a reason. Not because they do not have a home but because they destroy their home. If you try to give them a home they destroy it. There really is often nothing you can do because when you try to help they drag you down with them.
Oh yes, the old "poor people deserve it" crap.
Naraoia, I greatly respect and appreciate so many of your forum posts, especially your interesting comments on evolutionary biology, but in this case I'm struck by the facts that:
1) I don't think I have EVER felt compelled to defend anything stated by Jamin (for reasons which should be obvious to most readers so I won't go into detail), and
2) His long story about his younger brother was indeed irrelevant to this thread and the OP,
3) His account did NOTHING to describe a phenomenon which defied natural processes and therefore illustrated the definition of a "miracle" that we were discussing. [Indeed, his account something we all know to be true: When a person makes a decision to live their life differently than they have in the past, people notice changes. Moreover, there is abundant evidence that deciding to replace negativity with positive, constructive, and proactive behaviors is beneficial to mental health and motivation.]
{I'm not at all discounting the many ways in which THEOLOGICAL FACTORS can be powerful motivations for change. Indeed, far from being a "miracle" which defied the natural processes we observe on this planet, I fully EXPECTED and would have PREDICTED positive outcomes for his young brother when the brother decided to make changes in his life. And as a Christian I am quite THANKFUL that such decisions lead to positive changes for people like him. Cause-and-effect is NOT "a miracle" of the type people have been discussing on this thread.}
..........and .......most importantly:
4)
if Jamin wrote "poor people deserve it" somewhere, I honestly and completely MISSED IT. (Where did he say that?)
I do not know how much experience you have dealing with people who struggle with mental illness, addictions, crushing poverty amidst poor decision-making, and victims of violence, urban blight, war and civil breakdown, and just plain human shortcomings..........BUT THERE IS A GREAT DEAL OF TRUTH IN WHAT JAMIN WROTE:
Can I assume that you were reacting to his statement that:
"There really is often nothing you can do because when you try to help they drag you down with them." ????
If you disagree with this statement---or anything else he wrote in that paragraph----I'm very interesting in hearing the details of your objection.
Being OBJECTIVE AND REALISTICALLY about poverty, mental illness, and even depression-fed-by-addictions is NOT "poor people deserve it" crap.
Indeed, IGNORING the facts as stated in that paragraph explain a LOT OF THE FAILED GOVERNMENT PROGRAMS AND FINANCIAL WASTE which actually have tended to make life HARDER for "poor people".
Now if you do in fact have valuable insights into how we should best help the poor ---especially people like Jamin's late brother ---- and you can correct and improve upon the strategies I'm using in the non-profit organization I assist (which has some 50+ years in assisting some of this planet's poorest people), by all means help us out. We humbly solicit all of the help and wisdom we can find! [I'm not being sarcastic or snarky. I'm totally sincere.] I learned LONG AGO that a LOT of our traditional, governmental methods and even well-meaning charitable methods of reaching out to the poor are DESTRUCTIVE because they fail to engage and solicit "the helpless to help themselves". For example, one of the BEST ways to destroy a local economy and increase poverty after the natural disasters we try to address is to pour abundant and free-of-charge FOOD SUPPLIES into the area. (Farmers respond by leaving their land idle because any work they undertake in planting and growing crops is not only a waste of their time and energy, it simply puts them in deeper debt.)
I was going to expand upon Jamin's words with this example but I've said enough and I doubt if additional long tangents are necessary. But I hope you understand why I am shocked and baffled by your reaction to one of Jamin's more sensible and logical statements of fact.
ALL PEOPLE ARE FLAWED PEOPLE who are capable of dragging themselves and others down with them when we use poor strategies in helping them----and "poor people" are NO EXCEPTION to that fact. If you think me wrong in that statement, I solicit your help and correction.
I well realize that we often have to summarize with generalities on these forums. And some statements are more about conveying emotion than objective, literal facts. But I would simply like to understand your viewpoint in how you believe Jamin:
1) ...mischaracterized the PROBLEMS of a significant segment of the population who are often described as "poor people"....
2) .... and how (specifically) he allegedly stated "poor people deserve it".
[In fact, from my reading of his comments, I had the impression he was going to some length to say that his brother did NOT "deserve it". He told us that his brother struggled with a lot of difficult problems which he never asked for and did nothing to bring about. Deducing INTENTIONS from someone's writings is always subjective to a degree but I strongly detected Jamin's intention of conveying that is brother was "dealt a difficult hand" in life REGARDLESS of the poor choices his brother certainly made.]
So despite my strong objections to a LOT of what Jamin commonly writes..... speaking personally, I honestly can't find even an ounce of "poor people deserve it" in that particular post. I have spent many YEARS and thousands of hours in trying to assist "poor people" and much of what Jamin summarized is simply the "hard facts" of trying to devise strategies which actually assist the poor----and well-intended but poorly executed assistance can and does HARM both those "poor people" and the people who reach out to them.
.
