medical students boycotting lectures on evolution

[Skarl]

My God, but it's always awful to see people fumbling about and thinking that youtube videos count as scientific evidence.

 

[Tiberius]

My God, but it's always awful to see people fumbling about and thinking that youtube videos count as scientific evidence.

Why don't you show how the point it makes is wrong then?

 

[Ken-1122]

Also since your Signature's Logic bothers me I'll destroy it.

""I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours" Stephen H. Roberts"

Thing is an "atheist" claims to "lack" belief in Deity in general. I as a Christian do not deny that a Deity exist,

No you just deny that thousands of other deities people believe in exist.

I only deny false people who claim to be Deities,

And the atheist believes your deity is a false person who claimed to be a deity.

so yes, no one who believes in The Bible is an "atheist" to anyone else,

Wrong. You are an atheist to those who worship what you call “false people claiming to be deities.”

we believe in God, we just don't believe in posers.

Atheists see your God as a poser.

The logic of your argument is analogous to someone who believes food exists and that poison isn't food, then some fool comes around who doesn't believe food exists and claims that the person who believes in food just believes in one less type of food, no to that fool I'd say we believe in All Food, Food in general, we just don't believe poison is food.

Better change that signature of yours cabvet

Your analogy would only work if there were only one type of food that exist (you only worship one God) and there were thousands of different types of poisons that the person claims is not food (you deny the thousands of other Gods people worship) That is not the case so you analogy fails.

K

 

[someguy14]

And rather than give me even the smallest shred of evidence, you claim that since your stories say that Jesus walked on water, healed the sick and withered a tree, that mountains MUST be able to move due to prayers. Your logic is non-existent.

Of course it is proof. God created all for His glory. That means all is created for His own. All that are His own glorify God. So we say, let Gods will be done.

 

[Skarl]

Of course it is proof. God created all for His glory. That means all is created for His own. All that are His own glorify God. So we say, let Gods will be done.

I'm a Christian, and even I think this is just a ridiculous thing to say...

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

 

[someguy14]

Oh, here we go with the excuses.

The passage has Jesus saying, "If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you."

Jesus does NOT say, " If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you, provided that you are praying about the Mount of Olives and you want it to go into the sea, because if you pray for any other mountain to do any other thing, you're just plum out of luck."

It all must be according to Gods will. All that are Gods own rejoice in the fact that Gods will alone be done. All is possible with God.

 

[someguy14]

I'm a Christian, and even I think this is just a ridiculous thing to say...

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It is all Biblical.

 

[someguy14]

God created all for His glory.

Romans 11:36
For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.

That means all is created for His own.

1 Corinthians 3:20-23
20 And again, The Lord knoweth the thoughts of the wise, that they are vain. 21 Therefore let no man glory in men. For all things are yours; 22 Whether Paul, or Apollos, or Cephas, or the world, or life, or death, or things present, or things to come; all are yours; 23 And ye are Christ's; and Christ is God's.

All that are His own glorify God.

1 Corinthians 12:3
Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

Psalm 19:1
The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.

glory God

So we say, let Gods will be done.

Matthew 6:10
Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.


God is very merciful and very loving.

 

[someguy14]

Religious faith? No. I do not believe there is a God out there, or anywhere for that matter.

But my beliefs are completely irrelevant. There is, surely, someone out there who does have faith as a grain of a mustard seed. In all likelihood, many such people. So why can't they pray for the mount of Olives to go and throw itself into the sea?

It all must be done according to Gods will alone.

Luke 22:42
Saying, Father, if thou be willing, removehttp://www.christianforums.com/#fn-descriptionAnchor-a this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.

 

[someguy14]

Are you really saying that God does not make miracles in present time?



According to whom? And by the way, that "picture" in your signature might not even be of Jesus.

God is the definition of "miracle" and since God is in fact the Creator, each is eternally greatful for any goodness that is experienced. Be thankful. For His love alone is all that fulfills us.

 

[someguy14]

There is no evidence whatsoever that he did.

All points to good God as Creator, some refuse to understand it, some prolong it for various reasons. The truth is though, all will realize it as true eventually. God is all.

 

[someguy14]

If miracles render free will dead, how could the demons rebel?

Free will is for the innocent.

The demons willfully fought against God. Knowingly. Out of lust. Who is ignorant enough to claim to be the Maker, when the Maker already is...only those that failed already. Out of deceit. Desperation.

Yes the demons look down upon you. They lust after killing, stealing and destroying. If only goodness exists, they don't. They invested their entire selves into wickedness.

God is good.

 

[someguy14]

Why would it render free will dead now, but it didn't destroy it before?

Matthew 12:39
But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:

 

[someguy14]

No, you don't. Three different and independent laboratories consistently dated your "picture" to 1260 to 1390 AD.

Radiocarbon dating of the Shroud of Turin

Of all of the evidence presented to support the existence of God, this "picture" is the weakest.

Witnessing reality and your talking about it and thinking about it and yet denying it exists. The only delusional one is the one that denies it already is and yet refuses that it already is.

Oh, how I loathe the hatred about to attack me.

 

[46AND2]

Free will is for the innocent.

The demons willfully fought against God. Knowingly. Out of lust. Who is ignorant enough to claim to be the Maker, when the Maker already is...only those that failed already. Out of deceit. Desperation.

Yes the demons look down upon you. They lust after killing, stealing and destroying. If only goodness exists, they don't. They invested their entire selves into wickedness.

God is good.

Yet he created demons who, as you say, had no choice but to be evil...hmmm.

 

[Tiberius]

Of course it is proof. God created all for His glory. That means all is created for His own. All that are His own glorify God. So we say, let Gods will be done.

In what way is this anything remotely close to proof?

All you've done is say that since you believe the Bible is correct when it describes some things it must therefore be correct when describing other things.

It all must be according to Gods will. All that are Gods own rejoice in the fact that Gods will alone be done. All is possible with God.

Excuses excuses. I get this whenever the Bible fails to deliver.

 

[Skarl]

I think you guys are falling for a Poe...

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[Elendur]

Copy and Paste it is,

{text from the first link}

and

Radiocarbon 14 dating of the Shroud of Turin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In 2008 the director of the Oxford Radiocarbon Accelerator Unit, Christopher Ramsey, told the BBC that "With the radiocarbon measurements and with all of the other evidence which we have about the Shroud, there does seem to be a conflict in the interpretation of the different evidence".[79] Ramsey has stressed that he would be surprised if the 1988 tests were shown to be far off, let alone "a thousand years wrong", but said that he would keep an open mind

As Cute Tink wrote, in post #576, those two links provide no facts to back up their assertions.

I can understand that you want a specific result and will jump through hoops to make it look as if that result is at least viable.
That's bad science, don't start with the conclusion.

 

[SavedByChrist94]

Yet he created demons who, as you say, had no choice but to be evil...hmmm.

Nope, demons, turned into demons by free will. see your slander and kindergarten logic, one day you'll learn(unless you already know and are just trolling us)

No you just deny that thousands of other deities people believe in exist.

Nope, I Accept that Deity exists(automatically cannot be an "atheist" for that) and that He is Yahweh(The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit) exists, I just deny others who claim to be this Deity because they aren't really Him, just some phonies like "naturalism" for example, an "atheist" denies Deity(s) in general.

And the atheist believes your deity is a false person who claimed to be a deity.

Nope an "atheist" is an unscientific lunatic who denies God in general and believes "naturalism"

And they have no evidence for this while I have Facts that He is The Deity(see that image in my signature? He made you)

Wrong. You are an atheist to those who worship what you call “false people claiming to be deities.”

Nope, an "atheist" is someone who denies Deity in general.

what your foolish logic is analogous to,

I believe that a Baseball player named Derek Jeter exists, however I deny phonies who claim to be him, and you come along saying I don't believe Derek Jeter exists because I deny the phonies, I don't deny Derek Jeter's existence only that that phonies are Derek Jeter.

Atheists see your God as a poser.

See that, I admit I'm angry and insulted(I don't need to hide my anger like an "atheist" does), what you said there has been reported kid. also you're "atheism" is a poser, what proof and evidence is there for "atheism" to be accurate and correct? None.

Your analogy would only work if there were only one type of food that exist (you only worship one God) and there were thousands of different types of poisons that the person claims is not food (you deny the thousands of other Gods people worship) That is not the case so you analogy fails.

Nope, In my analogy I used All Food in General, and in the analogy I accept that All Food in general exists and I'm denying that poison is food(which it isn't, that's why I'm denying it as food), while the other guy denies food in general, I don't deny Food, I just deny poison as food. likewise I don't deny God, I Accept that God exists and is The Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit, I just deny that zeus would be a god. where an "atheist"(like an unscientific fool) denies God in general.

As Cute Tink wrote, in post #576, those two links provide no facts to back up their assertions.

And you provide no proof and only opinion in your response, please don't irritates me with that nonsense then claim you refuted something.

2, I refuted what see said in Post #577

I can understand that you want a specific result and will jump through hoops to make it look as if that result is at least viable.
That's bad science, don't start with the conclusion.

Opinion again, back up what you say, "atheistic" logic of hypocrisy irritates me, I provide proof, and you say it's not so therefore it ain't proof? please, provide proof not an opinion.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fU1P1du8NCc

So, Saved, it seems as though the hypothesis for how the image is presented is that when it was created that the Shroud was completely taunt and explanations are being dreamed up for how that could possibly be so.

Nope, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_voTiCTqv4Q

The Shroud whether you like it or not was caused by a Burst of Light from the dead body, want proof?

See next video,

There doesn't seem to be a true explanation given as to how it happened, but more a bunch of unsupported possibilities presented by people struggling with how to explain what would otherwise be a obvious flaw in concept.

Flaw in concept? More like your presupposition, see this video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fU1P1du8NCc

If that's enough for you, more power to you. To me, it seems like someone is making a simple situation into a needlessly complex and less believable project.

Instead of it looking like a person was wrapped up in a shroud, it looks like someone made an error in design.

It was caused by a burst of light, no evidence of forgery, not a painting, cannot be reproduced with Any modern or past technology, has 3d x ray like image, blood.

All scientist agree this is not forged/man made, and no "naturalistic" explanation is possible. you proved you lack knowledge, go study The Shroud and know that it is a Supernatural piece of History from your Creator Jesus Christ.

In what way is this anything remotely close to proof?

you asked like the fool that you are for proof about something from God,

I asked for proof that someone can say, "Dear God, I pray in your name that Mount Everest will move to the Australian outback, amen" and the mountain will move.

And rather than give me even the smallest shred of evidence, you claim that since your stories say that Jesus walked on water, healed the sick and withered a tree, that mountains MUST be able to move due to prayers. Your logic is non-existent.

He refuted with that fact that with God, it has to be according to His will, so whether you like it or not what you said was refuted and your answer was moronic, asking a question About The Bible, then refusing an Answer from The Bible, you don't want answers from or about The Bible then don't ask for questions from/about The Bible.

All you've done is say that since you believe the Bible is correct when it describes some things it must therefore be correct when describing other things.

Nope He used The Bible to refute your garbage logic.

Excuses excuses. I get this whenever the Bible fails to deliver.

How is it excuses? if a prayer isn't according to His will and He doesn't want to answer it, then He doesn't have to.

Why would it render free will dead now, but it didn't destroy it before?

Because it isn't normal for us and we all need God, fear death, and would do anything for Heaven. even the most cold blooded rebellious person would subject to Jesus Christ(God) if He appeared. guaranteed at The 2nd Coming of Jesus Christ all those who reject Him will be acting like they love Him, however The Bible states that in Hell they'll hate Him, when they should be hating themselves.

That is a very weak argument.

First of all, God had absolutely no problem coming down and showing hard evidence that he exists to the people in the Bible. He also sent the plagues to the Egyptians to show that he was the real God, AND he hardened Pharaoh's heart so he'd keep the Israelites captive. He also sent Jesus who did miracles here and there in front of lots of people and even rose from the dead. And yet you tell me that God doesn't want to do anything that will prove once and for all he exists?

He has proven that He exists, He however won't appear to us in present age. the fallacy you have is comparing ancient times where people didn't have knowledge of God and God was normal to them(Adam and Eve, Abraham, etc) to people in the present age who need God, and in an age where most free will would be dead, basically The 2nd Coming, end of the world. even the most cold blooded rebellious person would pretend they love God in the present.

Secondly, in what way does showing evidence constitute a violation of free will?

Nope because as proven people can choose to not believe it, even if it's proven for a Fact. people like myself have experienced demonic activity that was clearly demonic activity and still refused to believe. The Shroud a Scientific Fact, people still make excuses(Carbon Dating of the gaps for example despite faulty and suspious carbon testing, and burst of light changing image.)

You see evidence all the time of all sorts of things. I can claim that I have a baseball signed by Joe DiMaggio, and you could doubt me and ask that I prove it.

And you'd have to show it.

If I then claimed that I couldn't show you because it would violate your free will, you'd just think I was lying, wouldn't you?

See this shows your logic, this is not analogous to God as a baseball signed by Joe DiMaggio isn't going to break my free will, God appearing however would break Everyones free will without choice in the present, Guaranteed. Difference between evidence and appearance is with the evidence people can choose not to believe it and if they believe it maintain their free will, while with an appearance there's no choice, everyone(and I mean everyone) would stop what they're doing, probably even worst. life wouldn't be the way anyone of us are thinking, people would stop sinning(like in Heaven), which defeats the purpose. as long as a majority have free will then it runs, once the majority(at least) loses it then obviously God would end the world as that would be equal to the second coming.

And if I did show you, would you be upset that your free will was violated? Of course not.

Actually if God appeared, No one would be upset but glad since they can prevent going to Hell and pretend they love God, that's why God won't do it until He ends the world!

Thirdly, if God is really as powerful as people claim, then why can't he prove to me that he exists in such a way as to let me keep my free will?

He has, but you can still choose not to believe it and be in denial, The Shroud for example is obviously of Jesus Christ(and I know that you know it too), however you still make excuses, like Carbon testing which has been refuted, and no matter how much it's refuted you'll believe it, just like "atheist" who hold to a middle age infinite universe which has been destroyed and proven Fact that the universe began to exist.)

You mean the forgery from the middle ages?

No evidence of forgery, cannot be reproduced with any past or modern technology, Factually Caused by a Burst of UV light from the dead body, not a painting(has no paint), has 3d like x-ray image,


Please stop using refuted arguments, this argument was refuted back in the 80s, no evidence of forgery and not a painting.

It's a face on a cloth and it does not fit what the burial shroud of Jesus would have been like.

Turin Shroud is a fake, very short proof - YouTube

That video has been refuted,

Is the Shroud of Turin Evidence for Jesus? - YouTube

It's a burial cloth that had The Body of Jesus Christ emit a burst of light causing an x ray like image, that's what it is.

Why not? He did it before...

Difference, it was normal for them, to us if God appeared(as we need Him desperately) then

As for when Jesus Christ appeared, they could've thought Him as anyone, only thing that would work in those days was words and love. also those who did believe lost their free will a little(Jesus Christ was getting famous and many followed Him where He was going, brought their kids and family for healing)

Do you really think that quoting a book I don't believe is going to convince me of anything?

This attitude insults me and angers me(unlike "atheist"s I'm honest about being offended, Why do you need to mention that with a such smug attitude? no wonder why "atheist" men fail with women..

No one cares if you believe in "atheism" and santa claus, keep it to yourself. while you believe fairy tales, we'll believe in The Facts of The Bible.

Do you have faith?

Not just a faith, but a knowing, like I know I exist.

 

[SavedByChrist94]

Are you really saying that God does not make miracles in present time?

He does, but He won't break free will.

According to whom?

Science.

And by the way, that "picture" in your signature might not even be of Jesus.

Pontius Pilate 29AD Coin on eye

Crucified

Flogged

Beating was over exaggerated, worst than a normal crucified victim

Miraculous Image

Jerusalem Pollen from March/April

and crown of thorns is a giveaway. that is Jesus Christ

If miracles render free will dead, why did he EVER perform them?

In the beginning of the world people didn't understand God or lacked knowledge, it was extremely normal, unlike now where we desperately need God. example is, The Pharisees, they saw the miracles, yet felt God is a threat and thought they had a ticket to Heaven, whereas now we'd do anything to go to Heaven and not Hell that even the most cold blooded rebellious person would subject to God and wouldn't even think about sinning.

Or Adam and Eve, they saw God firsthand and were new to the world, it was normal to see Him and have Free Will, they never lived like we did.

If miracles render free will dead, how could the demons rebel?

Because it's normal for them, that is analogous to one asking, "How do you know that once you get to Heaven you won't sin and mess it up?"

I answer, because it's like a homeless person who messed up in life, gets given a billion dollars, you really think they want to go back to the street when they know what it's like? Heaven is going to be so awesome that #1, There's no way I'd want life to be like earth and #2, we know how it was before Heaven so why mess it up. no reason to sin in Heaven. difference between demons and humans is humans experienced sin all their lives, demons started sinning and before that never experienced it(satan for example)

Nice dodge...

Nope, no dodge, didn't see it, missed it and I apologize, I have now answered it,

How about you answer the questions now?

1. Does God perform miracles in modern times?

If it doesn't break free will.

2. How does performing a miracle kill free will?

The Minute The Lord Jesus Christ returns guaranteed everyone who hated Him or didn't believe will be on their knees, He won't get real love. and that kills the purpose, you really think if Jesus Christ appeared to someone they would have free will? Only a wannabe tough guy would say he'd keep his free will because the moment The Father, and/or The Son, and/or The Holy Spirit speak or perform an obvious miracle is the moment that person is going to be on their knees, this isn't ancient times, the beginning of the world when the world was new, everyone needs God now, and if they have to pretend they'll do so, even the worst of worst hate-theist.

Are you really saying that God does not make miracles in present time?

He does, but He won't break free will.

According to whom?

Science.

And by the way, that "picture" in your signature might not even be of Jesus.

Pontius Pilate 29AD Coin on eye

Crucified

Flogged

Beating was over exaggerated, worst than a normal crucified victim

Miraculous Image

Jerusalem Pollen from March/April

and crown of thorns is a giveaway. that is Jesus Christ