To tithe, or not to tithe. That is the question!

[BeforeThereWas]

I have been to many different churches and at each one, the pastor stands before the congregation and give his definition of tithing - to bring a tenth of your gross income, gifts, and inheritances - a definition you won't find in the scriptures. There is no principle, in the scriptures, of tithing from income, gifts, or inheritances. The Israelites inherited the promised land, yet they didn't tithe the land.

Interestingly, the system of tithing actually didn't begin until AFTER they had inherited the promised land, and the place had been established where His name would dwell. According to the tithing hounds, God was remiss in His instructions to the Israelites for allowing them to get away with not tithing from herds, flocks, fields, orchards and vineyards they didn't have.

(sudden, sharp intake of breath)

Whaaaaaat?

That inevitably leads to a very discomforting reality (at least, for tithing supporters) in support of what we've been saying all along. Wondering in the wilderness meant they didn't have producing fields, vineyards and orchards from which to tithe, and their reproducing flocks and herds were probably non-existent with them wondering through desert and wilderness, thus the manna.

In order for one to say they tithe today, they have to turn to a man-made definition of tithing. And when the pastor parades the tithers with their testimonies, the emphasis is always on the blessings they got and never on how good it feels to be a giver.

The warm fuzzies gleaned from having robbed God by supporting a facility and hirelings before meeting the needs of fellow brothers and sisters in Christ Jesus is fleeting, and yet the lasting effect of deception remains the most profound and powerful of all, which gives the victim a false sense of well-being while lavishing in falsehood.

How tragic indeed.

It's always about what one can get back in return for their tithe. VERY, VERY SELFISH. It makes tithing an investment, not giving from the heart.

WHAMMY!!!!! Now THAT'S what I call hitting it on the head!

False teachers like David Jeremiah preach what they consider bold sermons actually upholding the idea that it's ok for believers to "give to get." I mean, that clown actually preached the concept as if it were a noble pursuit in a Christian's life.

It's comical, and yet sad, to think there are people who actually think they will stand before the Throne and hear the Lord say, "Well done, thou faithful servant, for primarily supporting that building while the needy came and went with growling stomachs, but at least they heard Aristotilian style rhetoric, otherwise called a sermon.

Wowie! I'm not sure what god they think will say that to them, but it sure ain't the One described in the scriptures.

BTW

 

[GodismySalvation]

Interesting, you like where it says, he who sows sparingly will reap sparingly? Ok, but that about the provision for the poor in 2 Cor 8? I guess since he can't sow, he has to remain poor? Paul said don't sow, if you don't have it.

And why does 2 Cor 8:14, say that the Corinthinas even after sowing, may be poor one day?

Lets go by the whole of the story in Corinth.

I'm still learning so I won't be able to discuss the bible with you. The bible verse blessed me when I read it. To me it means be generous. The tithers have convinced me that the poor are part of where tithes go. I now see tithing as a way to take care of the poor and reach the lost with the salvation message and whatever else. That's why I'm asking the tithers to share their understanding with me. They seem more active in their giving. They don't complain, they just give. They also seem to have more understanding of where and how to give. I want to know what they know. I like their way of thinking. I want to follow their example and get the results they are getting. They sound happier and more productive, and they don't mock others. They seem strong and solid in their faith. I know this is just my opinion, but it is what I saw in this thread and it changed me from someone who had no opinion, to someone who is motivated to become a tither.

 

[BeforeThereWas]

I'm still learning so I won't be able to discuss the bible with you.

Perhaps you should become more familiar with the Bible before falling headlong into the emotional chummies with what you're hearing from the pro-tithe gang. The Bible provides the best written acid test to the emotional things others write.

BTW

 

[ByTheSpirit]

Perhaps you should become more familiar with the Bible before falling headlong into the emotional chummies with what you're hearing from the pro-tithe gang. The Bible provides the best written acid test to the emotional things others write.

BTW

 

[GodismySalvation]

I'm sorry if you thought I was saying your faith is less than mine. I wasn't. I was saying that I am interested in hearing what tithers have to say without interference from critics. I have read everything critics have said and they couldn't prove tithing ceased using the bible. So I am now committed to learning and doing tithing. The tithers don't jump all over the critics. Why do the critics have to mock and force their opinions on tithers? What does it matter to you if I am now a tither? Why can't you let me do what I feel the Lord is leading me? There's a handfull of critics that act like their world would fall apart if tithing were true? Why? What's the big deal if you don't believe tithing is for today and I do? What does it matter to you jamadan and other critics? You don't want to tithe and now I want to tithe because it is in the bible and was explained clear enough for me to understand it didn't cease.

 

[GaryArnold]

I have read everything critics have said and they couldn't prove tithing ceased using the bible.

Stop reading what tithers and/or critics say and start studying the scriptures yourself.

The Bible clearly shows that the tithe ENDED at the cross in the Book of Hebrews. The ONLY place in the Bible, after Calvary, that tithing appears is in Hebrews 7. In the first nine verses of Hebrews 7 the words tenth or tithes appears SEVEN TIMES.

Hebrews 7:5 (KJV) “And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham:”

Verse 5 is the first occurrence of the words TITHES, COMMANDMENT and LAW.

Hebrews 7:12 (KJV) “For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.”

Hebrews 7:18 (KJV) “For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.”

The word COMMANDMENT in verse 18 must be referring to the word COMMANDMENT in verse 5 which is referring to the tithe.

Therefore, the COMMANDMENT to TITHE was disannulled.

If that isn't clear enough for you, along with the fact that you find NO teaching of tithing after Calvary in the scriptures, and that the teachings of Paul actually contradict the tithe, you need to start at the beginning and study, study, study, and study more and stop listening to others. You are caught up in the blind leading the blind.

Just because something sounds good to the human ear doesn't mean it is Biblical.

 

[mjere]

I hope you don't mind me responding.

To me, the OT system of the tithe was a wonderful system. It provided for those who served the Lord as a daily lifestyle ...

That system served a wondrous and good purpose, ....

To be told that such a practice is "Christian" would have been so foreign to their thinking were they to observe what's going on today in so many circles. It would have baffled their minds to be told that the complete reversal of priorities...

That's a somewhat fatalistic vantage point I'd rather avoid. That's almost like saying, "Oh well, if the unbeliever doesn't see their need for God here, they'll see it in eternity. The early Church leaders were the mighty guards against heresy, but today they are so few that the power ....

Very good point. The letter of the Law kills.

I've visited a small hand full of institutional church organizations across the country that taught meeting needs above all else...

I'm hearing you.

I think we give the OT tithers too much credit. We tend to allow religion to fill in the blanks, and yet the Bible gives a different account all together. For one thing, in the OT they lived under a theocracy, which made the tithe and other observances mandatory, and punishable by death. But they were letting stuff slip as well.

The main point about the OT nation of Israel is they were receiving the blessing because of a covenant and not because they were living up to their end of the bargain. They never kept that Sabbath year, along with other responsibilities commanded in the OT law.

The NT goes on to reveal that the law- that "wonderful system" - was handwriting of ordinances that was against us, not for us. As you said, the law was meant to kill; and they were frustrated. That's why towards the end of the OT in captivity they started to make some rather small changes, and interpret the law into rules they could live by. Every once in a while we see God checking in on them and calling some of that out.


I hate to keep saying this, but there's nothing wrong with the purposed proportional giving, as long as it doesn't become law. How do you know if it's law? Don't tithe for a month and see how good you feel! Do you feel guilty? Condemned? Do you plan to make that month up sometime in the future? When it comes time to give, what's the first number that pops into your head? Is it 10%?

As for the needy, if we had a better of understanding of how God works finances in our lives, we wouldn't take it upon ourselves to be another person's source. Helping a person in need, without getting them into "relationship" is a recipe for disaster. It's the Word that's going to produce and not money.

As for my fatalistic disposition, I tend to go there because I know God doesn't will for people to stay in the dark, and I know he's done everything he's going to do and has made the truth available to every believer. We don't have to function on partial truths, or only what we can figure out now. Every believer has a free will, and I know that when I come across someone who's legalistic, I'm touching on some sensitive subjects, because a person who's pleased with themselves will never be pleased with the Gospel- receiving freely. It's offensive. It says to them that all their good works were to no avail. That hurts, and it can leave a person bitter, frustrated, and angry.

IA with alot of what non-tithers have been saying on this board, but it has to be conveyed with love. We need to remember, we've all been there once, one way or another. We were all heading to the same destination, even if it was a different route or vehicle; and it was never smug behavior, or someone beating us over the head with scripture that changed us. It was the love of Christ. A memory is a powerful thing, and it will keep alot of us from becoming puffed up in pride. But it's almost second nature to get free, and want to shout it to the rooftops!


This is not my thinking for the unbeliever, because unbelievers are spiritually [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] for the most part anyway. They've got so much deception trying to keep them from receiving, we really need to stick with them.

Um, what in the world are are you talking about? I'm quite capable of walking n Love with all people,....

This is most likely because we all see through a glass dimly. Or IOW, we all have pieces of truth....

If you haven't already done so, I'd suggest you take some time to go read the posts in this thread. There's a fair amount of 'yelling' from both sides.

On this we agree.....

I absolutely agree with you...

You said earlier that Jesus said that a tree is known by its fruit. That's true. And when you talk about giving and the focus, or 'fruit' if you will, is more about 'why should my pastor drive a nicer car than me', and not at all about our giving nature, the fruit is pretty rotten, IMO.

I jumped in mid your conversation with another poster, but I was shocked at how volatile people have become over some of the comments. I thought that should be addressed. I guess that's why I drew a line in the post, because I didn't want you to think I was entirely directing my comments towards you, but your post hit most of the bullets points I wanted to address. Confusing, my apologies. But I don't really care to go through he said, she said. It's ridiculous really.

In response to a "pastor driving a nicer car" conversation, I'd look no further than bitter, envying and pride... yes, there's some issues here. A person who can't rejoice when they see other believer (who cares what their calling in life is?) prosper, and succeed, doesn't have a tithing problem. They are simply not drawing on who they are in Christ all together. I would recommend that person stop harping on the tithe and learn how to receive from God freely, because when God gives, it humbles you; and at times it's almost embarrassing.

OTOH, a person who criticizes a person not giving enough, or in regular proportions, or not having that "true" spirit of giving, also has never received for themselves. When a person looks at themselves in comparison to Christ, they can minister mercy and love inspite of where they think others have fallen short. God's kind of love flows out of them and they can see the good.

If we haven't tapped into our own gifts and callings, we shouldn't be criticizing someone who's trying and not doing it as perfectly as we would have hoped. "Against everything, and standing for nothing" is not a ministry. But indirectly, what's been said about fancy pastors does have alot of truth. If the body of Christ was systematically giving where they are fed, and not where they are condemned and pressure, some of these wolves in sheep's clothing would have been starved out a long time. I don't care if it's a tithe or an offering. Those who preach the gospel should live by the gospel, and I can't safely say the vast majority of churches are actually feeding the Body. Forget the fact that most churches are not teaching the gospel. (They may be presenting facts about Christ and spiritual truths.) Just as "BeforeThereWas" was saying above, the church should be meeting alot of the social needs, that the government has stepped in and started doing.

It would do the critics well to know that God is not to be mocked. But a pastor driving a nice car, who pulls a devotional out every Sunday to minister, and is preaching what he learned at seminary, instead of the revealed Word, oughta take heed as well. Galatians 6:7. A believer who's claiming, "What's the difference where I sow, just as long as I'm sowing," is not following scripture either. You give where you're fed; and we should be aware that when we give, we take part in other people's works- good and bad. "You reap what you sow. "

 

[GaryArnold]

Since the word "tithe" means a tenth or tenth part, without defining WHAT the tenth comes from creates a communication problem.

If I have $1.00 in change in my pocket and I give a tenth of it (ten cents), I then have tithed. I am a tither, by definition.

The Bible doesn't define a tithe as a tenth of one's income, but GOD DID DEFINED HIS TITHE in Leviticus 27:30-33. GOD ACTUALLY SAID WHERE HIS TITHE WAS TO COME FROM.

Today, for one to say they believe in tithing without qualifying WHERE the tenth comes from is really saying nothing. I guess it makes some people feel good to use a term (tithe) that is in the Bible. To just say I gave a tenth tells little. Tenth of what?

As soon as YOU define where the tenth comes from, YOU have made your own definition. Pastors do this all the time. That is how they trick and convince people to hand over their money to them. They use a man-made definition and then use words that sound good in order to manipulate people into handing over their money. They take a verse here and there, out of context, that make it seem like what they are teaching is actually Biblical.

One of the most disappointing times in my adult life was the time my favorite pastor admitted to me that he knew tithing ended at the cross, but that he couldn't let his congregation know it because he was afraid they wouldn't give enough money to keep the church doors open. I would have rather he believed in what he was preaching than to knowingly lie to his congregation.

 

[GaryArnold]

Why is it church goers seem to think that the tithe was given to the Levites because they did the work at the Temple for their occupation. NOT SO. The Levites worked at the Temple approximate TWO WEEKS PER YEAR, on a rotational basis. The rest of the time THEY TENDED THEIR HERDS AND CROPS or worked another occupation. SAME WITH THE PRIESTS. They served at the Temple approximately TWO WEEKS PER YEAR on a rotational basis.

Ever hear that in church? Oh, you want scripture? See First Chronicles 24 for the priests and chapters 25 and 26 for the Levites.

 

[Messy]

A believer who's claiming, "What's the difference where I sow, just as long as I'm sowing," is not following scripture either. You give where you're fed;

I've always heared this preached, but where is it in the Bible, that you must give to the congregation where you're fed?
I know James 2:15-16 Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? This is: you give where there's hunger, you give to feed. God sees one church, we did the splitting up.
If a pastor has a big car and a pastor in another part of the world doesn't even have a car, why can't you or more ideal the church give it to him? Or the pastor give a good example? I remember a preaching of Ken Gott, that he and a lot of people from his church bought a smaller house to live in, to care about God's house that was ruined.

 

[mjere]

I've always heared this preached, but where is it in the Bible, that you must give to the congregation where you're fed?
I know James 2:15-16 Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? This is: you give where there's hunger, you give to feed. God sees one church, we did the splitting up.
If a pastor has a big car and a pastor in another part of the world doesn't even have a car, why can't you or more ideal the church give it to him? Or the pastor give a good example? I remember a preaching of Ken Gott, that he and a lot of people from his church bought a smaller house to live in, to care about God's house that was ruined.

There are gifts intended for ministries out there reaching people, and yet they haven't spoken into your life personally; you give to them for the furtherance of the Gospel.

But, why wouldn't you give where you're being fed the Word? The Scripture doesn't say ONLY give where you're being fed, but if someone is reaching you-your inner depths- why wouldn't you give to that place?

Here's the tough part- if you aren't being fed, and being rooted and grounded in the things of God. If you're not leaving service empowered to get into the Word, would you still consider that to be a place that's feeding you? I'm not talking about leaving and saying in the ride home, "That was a good message. *turn the radio on*"

But a message that is the answer to what you were seeking to understand all your life, and finally you can go back to that scripture from yesterday and hammer it home! A person who is being fed to that degree, and is refusing to give to that place because they should be giving to the poor instead, I'm not condemning that, and they shouldn't feel condemned, but God is not to be mocked. You will reap what you've sewn, and throwing it in any old ground/concrete doesn't make for a smart farmer.

That said- there is nothing wrong with a minister prospering- looking good, riding in a nice car, living in a nice home. Where most ministers miss it in this area, is they prosper through God's grace and teach everyone else to forsake their needs to further their ministry.

There are alot of ministers driving those cars, and living in those homes, and they were all gifts given to them by a benevolent member of the congregation. Should they turn down a free car to get a new car they have to pay for? That's ignorance gone to seed. But they need to remember, God is not to be mocked. If you're not feeding people, you're not touching people's lives, or ministering the Gospel, you're just some public figure furthering your personal pursuits- God is not to be mocked. You may not reap it in this life, but you will in the next.

It's not because God is harsh slave driver demanding you tow the line; it's just these are natural laws that work whether you want to believe them or not. It's like gravity. You don't sow corn and expect apples. You don't sow on concrete and expect a great harvest. You don't eat at Wendy's and pay at McDonalds.

 

[Messy]

Why wouldn't I give where I'm being fed? Ehm well maybe because I get fed once a month or two months. I still haven't found a place where my kids also get fed, so I still tithe to their father who gets 1100 a month with a rent of 730 (he can't get a cheaper house) and I figured he's a pastor and he needs it. I want to find a church, but don't think I'm now going to tithe there. Don't have enough for 20%.

 

[FoundInGrace]

its not a NT thing but it is a really useful guideline of how to give to God and by doing that support the local church. some of us arent that good at hearing God so tithing is a really useful guideline on what to do with our money, can always give more than a tithe, we are not restricted by giving a tithe at all but a regular giving of around 10% does help the church budget and run so we can go to it.

i find if i didnt have a regular payment set up then i would forget or think oh yeah i'll do more next week or something therefore tithing is awesome because its regular and i want to give regularly to God.
There's a peace about a regular payment set up of tithing for me, me and God both know it's for Him and that its not restricted to only 10% but me and God both know my personality as well so tithing works and i hope God is honored by it and i trust the money given is used by the church i go to for God's purposes which is a joyful thing, that gives me peace and makes me happy that i can give back to God through the local church.

 

[GaryArnold]

some of us arent that good at hearing God so tithing is a really useful guideline on what to do with our money, can always give more than a tithe, we are not restricted by giving a tithe at all but a regular giving of around 10% does help the church budget and run so we can go to it.

If YOU want to choose 10% as a useful guideline for yourself, that is fine. However, the Biblical tithe averaged 20% over a 7-year period, NOT 10%.
Year 1 - 10% to the priesthood
Year 1 - 10% for the festivals = 20% during Year 1
Year 2 - 10% to the priesthood
Year 2 - 10% for the festivals = 20% during Year 2
Year 3 - 10% to the priesthood
Year 3 - 10% for the festivals
Year 3 - 10% for the poor = 30% during Year 3
Year 4 - 10% to the priesthood
Year 4 - 10% for the festivals = 20% during Year 4
Year 5 - 10% to the priesthood
Year 5 - 10% for the festivals = 20% during Year 5
Year 6 - 10% to the priesthood
Year 6 - 10% for the festivals
Year 6 - 10% for the poor = 30% during Year 6
Year 7 - No tithing. Sabbath rest for land.

So IF you choose 10%, fine. But that is NOT what the Bible teaches about tithing, so don't think you are using some Biblical guideline. You are using your own guideline, which is fine. Treat it as such.

 

[Messy]

Are there testimonies from the grace givers?

 

[GaryArnold]

Are there testimonies from the grace givers?

I have always been a generous, sacrificial giver. I have never in my life "tithed." Yet God blessed me financially so that I could retire at age 50, house mortgage paid off, paid cash for new luxury SUV a couple years ago, have NO financial debts, etc. But that's all material things. God has blessed me with good health, loving family and friends, and an intimate relationship with Him. God has told me on numerous occasions to do something I really didn't want to do, but to please Him, I did as He asked. Being obedient to His voice has always resulted in what was best for me, even though at the time I thought otherwise.

It was God who put me in a position to where I had to study the topic of tithing, and it was Him that showed me the error in what I had been taught on that subject. He laid it out, piece by piece, for me over a long period of time. God now uses me to teach others. There are Bible Study instructors and pastors in the US, Canada, Australia, and East Africa, that I know of, teaching from material on this topic that I have written. God already gave me the financing I need to run my ministry. I accept NO donations. Period.

I truly believe that when God calls someone to His ministry, He will provide the finances. He will put it in the hearts of certain individuals to give generously. No need for anyone called by God to minister to have to ask or beg for money.

 

[ByTheSpirit]

If YOU want to choose 10% as a useful guideline for yourself, that is fine. However, the Biblical tithe averaged 20% over a 7-year period, NOT 10%.
Year 1 - 10% to the priesthood
Year 1 - 10% for the festivals = 20% during Year 1
Year 2 - 10% to the priesthood
Year 2 - 10% for the festivals = 20% during Year 2
Year 3 - 10% to the priesthood
Year 3 - 10% for the festivals
Year 3 - 10% for the poor = 30% during Year 3
Year 4 - 10% to the priesthood
Year 4 - 10% for the festivals = 20% during Year 4
Year 5 - 10% to the priesthood
Year 5 - 10% for the festivals = 20% during Year 5
Year 6 - 10% to the priesthood
Year 6 - 10% for the festivals
Year 6 - 10% for the poor = 30% during Year 6
Year 7 - No tithing. Sabbath rest for land.

So IF you choose 10%, fine. But that is NOT what the Bible teaches about tithing, so don't think you are using some Biblical guideline. You are using your own guideline, which is fine. Treat it as such.

 

[Messy]

I have always been a generous, sacrificial giver. I have never in my life "tithed." Yet God blessed me financially so that I could retire at age 50, house mortgage paid off, paid cash for new luxury SUV a couple years ago, have NO financial debts, etc. But that's all material things. God has blessed me with good health, loving family and friends, and an intimate relationship with Him. God has told me on numerous occasions to do something I really didn't want to do, but to please Him, I did as He asked. Being obedient to His voice has always resulted in what was best for me, even though at the time I thought otherwise.

It was God who put me in a position to where I had to study the topic of tithing, and it was Him that showed me the error in what I had been taught on that subject. He laid it out, piece by piece, for me over a long period of time. God now uses me to teach others. There are Bible Study instructors and pastors in the US, Canada, Australia, and East Africa, that I know of, teaching from material on this topic that I have written. God already gave me the financing I need to run my ministry. I accept NO donations. Period.

I truly believe that when God calls someone to His ministry, He will provide the finances. He will put it in the hearts of certain individuals to give generously. No need for anyone called by God to minister to have to ask or beg for money.

Wow! No debts. This builds my faith. That last part is what Corrie ten Boom also said when she went to the USA. She tried to ask for money once, but it was a bad experience, so she never did it again and the Lord always provided. I wanted to ask if you have a website, but I already found it.

I've got one testimony from a former alcoholaddict who was saved and had almost no money. He wanted to go to an encounter and it costed 100 euro. So the pastor said well you don't have to pay for it, but he defenitely wanted to and he didn't have it. He prayed and found 100 euro underneath the garbagecan outside. So he gave it to the pastor and he said thank you and shook his hand and so gave it back to him.

 

[GodismySalvation]

Stop reading what tithers and/or critics say and start studying the scriptures yourself.

The Bible clearly shows that the tithe ENDED at the cross in the Book of Hebrews. The ONLY place in the Bible, after Calvary, that tithing appears is in Hebrews 7. In the first nine verses of Hebrews 7 the words tenth or tithes appears SEVEN TIMES.

Hebrews 7:5 (KJV) “And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham:”

Verse 5 is the first occurrence of the words TITHES, COMMANDMENT and LAW.

Hebrews 7:12 (KJV) “For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.”

Hebrews 7:18 (KJV) “For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.”

The word COMMANDMENT in verse 18 must be referring to the word COMMANDMENT in verse 5 which is referring to the tithe.

Therefore, the COMMANDMENT to TITHE was disannulled.

If that isn't clear enough for you, along with the fact that you find NO teaching of tithing after Calvary in the scriptures, and that the teachings of Paul actually contradict the tithe, you need to start at the beginning and study, study, study, and study more and stop listening to others. You are caught up in the blind leading the blind.

Just because something sounds good to the human ear doesn't mean it is Biblical.

I did read ALL the bible verses for myself. It took me a long time to get through 600 posts and all the verses both sides gave. I am not as knowledgeable of the bible as WordofHisPower is and couldn't debate with any of you but I can read and understand. I see Jesus mentioned in almost every verse before hebrews 7 and in 7:3 and in almost every verse after verse 12 and in almost every verse in hebrews chapter 5, 6, 7, 8. I see why the tithers say hebrews 7:8 is Jesus, and why both sides say living by law has ended and living by grace has replaced it.

You say tithing has ended completely and the tithers say law tithing is replaced by grace tithing just as living holy hasn't ceased but is by grace now. I see why you interpret scripture differently than tithers because you are trying to prove tithing ceased and tithers are trying to show that it didn't but I didn't have anything to prove. In fact I wanted you to be right when you said tithing ceased because I didn't really want to tithe but when I objectively read all the bible verses everyone gave I did see the tithers were right. Also when tithers said how blessed they were by tithing and how the Lord takes care of them as they follow the bible it took away the resistance I had to tithing.

I can see for myself in the bible tithing ceased to be a law now and became an act of worship. I can see now for myself how you are misunderstanding grace tithing but agree with you and the grace tithers that the law has ceased. Really you both appear to be saying the same things except you take exception to the word tithe. The only disagreement I see between you and the grace tithers is semantics. You take a disliking to 10%. I don't have a problem with it anymore. It seems like a wonderful number now that it is grace. But even the grace tithers say the focus is not so much on the 10% as the act of worship in giving the 10%. And grace tithers get so blessed by tithing they want to give beyond 10%. Really doesn't it sound like the same kind of thing you believe if you try not take a reaction to the word tithe?

The other thing that helped me see the tithers were right was the way the critics were being so mocking and unchristian like toward the tithers. I was on your side until your behavior showed me that there was something more appealing about the behavior of the tithers. I started to see them as people I wanted to imitate. You critics appeared desperate to be right and abandoned christian behavior as a tactic to win an argument. I also noticed the tithers would stop and pray over the things you said but you wouldn't do the same. You seemed dogmatic and the tithers seemed gracious. The last thing that convinced me the tithers were right is they stuck with the bible to interpret itself and you went to outside sources. I was impressed that the bible can interpret itself. I had never seen that done before. I trust the bible more now because of the way the tithers presented their beliefs. Sorry for being so long winded. I never have this much to say.

 

[GaryArnold]

You take a disliking to 10%. I don't have a problem with it anymore. It seems like a wonderful number now that it is grace. But even the grace tithers say the focus is not so much on the 10% as the act of worship in giving the 10%. And grace tithers get so blessed by tithing they want to give beyond 10%. Really doesn't it sound like the same kind of thing you believe if you try not take a reaction to the word tithe?

For every one tither who testifies about all the blessings they get because they tithe there are thousands who have tithed all their life who still struggle from paycheck to paycheck. I am a Money and Finance Minister. I see this all the time.

Mandatory tithing was replaced by grace giving, not grace tithing.

You believe 10% is such a wonderful number. Fact is, no number is more wonderful than another. You seem all wrapped up in emotions rather than truth.

If 10% is right for you, fine. For me, it has to be 20% or 30% or more. I wouldn't feel right giving a measly 10% of my income. But that is me. I don't try to force or recommend others to give what I give.

God is not concerned with how much ones gives. God is concerned with how much one keeps for themselves.

We are called to help one another, NOT an organized corporation doing business and disguised as a church. WE are the Church. If one attends church services, they should feel obligated to help pay the bills. But thinking that is giving to God is not scriptural.

I find it quite offensive that pastors have appointed themselves to be the receiver of what belongs to God. After all, the pastor says the tithe belongs to God. Then he appoints himself to receive the tithe!!!

God never gave any pastor or church permission to receive his tithe. God commanded His tithe be taken to the Levites, FOREVER, in Numbers 18.

Since the tithe belongs to God, if a pastor accepts it isn't he stealing it from God?

Just because the law ended doesn't mean you can take what God said belonged to Him, and He gave it to the Levites, and you now come along and give it to the organization doing business as a church. The law ended. You don't have to tithe. But if you DO tithe, shouldn't you do it the way God prescribed?

It is my opinion that those who claim to tithe today are insulting God. God defined His tithe as a tenth from HIS increase, not man's income.