To tithe, or not to tithe. That is the question!

[WordofHisPower]

I saw a post by someone saying the tithers haven't produced any scripture, so here you go.

Here's a list of as various tithes (10%) I found so far. The ones with * are the scriptures NT tithers base their faith tithing on.

NON-LAW
*Abraham tithes (10%) on something he won. Hebrews 7:2, Genesis 14:20

*Jacob tithes (10%) of all the Lord gives him. Genesis 28:22

*NT tithe (10%) of all that you possess. Luke 18:12

*NT Pharisee tithe 10% and Christ said to continue doing it. Matthew 23:23

*Honor the Lord with all your possession. Proverbs 3:9

*NT tithing through Christ. Hebrews 6:20 and Hebrews 7:1-28

LAW
*Lay aside a tithe of your increase for the Levite and the poor. Remove it from your house and give it. Deuteronomy 26:12-13

*Tithe (10%) is holy to the Lord. Leviticus 27:30

*The Israelites brought a tithe of everything, including produce. 2 Chronicles 31:5

1st tithe to support those doing the Lord's work. Leviticus 27:30, Numbers 8

2nd tithe to take family on yearly feast in God's presence. Deuteronomy 14:22-27

3rd tithe is the 2 year poor tithe to look after the poor. Deuteronomy 14:28-29

Tithe of the produce of the land to the Levites. Nehemiah 10:37

Tithe of the tithe to the storehouse by the Levites. Nehemiah 10:38

Malachi tithe into the storehouse. Malachi 3:10

There's no command from God or Christ to stop tithing.

 

[WordofHisPower]

I've got no problems with giving 10 % or more, I just don't want to do it because I have to, because it's in the law. I do it because I want to and to the one God tells me to give it to. Maybe it's time pastors who have more than enough go tithe to the Body of Christ in need, members are also part of His Body, instead of a megachurch in Canada sending me in Holland an email with merry christmas, could you donate, we can't pay off our buildings. I'm still paying off my debt of a week ministry I got there years ago.

If you're tithing by law, switch to tithing by grace and faith. It's better in every way.

The same goes for living for God. If you're living for God by law, switch to living for Him by faith and grace.

The major difference I see between faith and law is attitude and ability.

Under grace we have new life and ability to do what pleases God.

If someone's scamming you for money, ignore them. They can't make you give them anything.

 

[MikeBigg]

It took me a long time to get through this thread. I was undecided on tithing, but after 550 posts, I would have to agree with your statement. The tithers give good bible proofs AND are pretty much the only ones who talk in support of giving. The attitude of the tithers has convinced me to become one. Thanks to all you tithers. You made an impression on me.

I have read pretty much all of the thread - I have found it liberating.

I go to a church that hpreaches tithing, but over the years have felt some guilt when not tithing as money was tight

Reading this thread and having the information like tithes not being money etc, and reading the links, I am now convinced that tithing is not for me - and shouldn't be preached either.

Giving, led by God, could be more expensive than tithing. I know God to be a generous God - I have in the past given generously when asked, and sacrificially.

As I embark on a grace based non-legalistic way of giving I expect that will happen again.

This topic fits perfectly in with how God has been leading me away from legalisms and doings into His love and grace.

Funny how the two of us come to totally different conclusions after reading the same thread.

Blessings,

Mike

 

[GodismySalvation]

I have read pretty much all of the thread - I have found it liberating.

I go to a church that hpreaches tithing, but over the years have felt some guilt when not tithing as money was tight

Reading this thread and having the information like tithes not being money etc, and reading the links, I am now convinced that tithing is not for me - and shouldn't be preached either.

Giving, led by God, could be more expensive than tithing. I know God to be a generous God - I have in the past given generously when asked, and sacrificially.

As I embark on a grace based non-legalistic way of giving I expect that will happen again.

This topic fits perfectly in with how God has been leading me away from legalisms and doings into His love and grace.

Funny how the two of us come to totally different conclusions after reading the same thread.

Blessings,

Mike

I took my time and studied the thread from the beginning. I wanted to know what the bible said, more than opinions. I guess it was the non-legalistic tithers that impressed me. They did a good job of showing how to tithe and NOT be legalistic. I liked how they had bible proofs and didn't force their ideas on others. They helped me in more than just tithing. From them I started to see how to follow the bible in love and grace. That's why I wanted to read more of what they had to say.

 

[Frogster]

[

 

[Frogster]

I would have to disagree. The bible is true and doesn't need to rebutt anyone's facts. Most of the critics of tithing seem to keep rebutting the bible AND they don't treat those who disagree with them very respectfully. I wouldn't respond to those kind of people either.

I was hoping to see facts, doctrine is about facts, the bible has facts.

Tithe teachers don't present facts, as they demand tithe.

 

[BeforeThereWas]

I liked how the tithers said they tithe by faith, AND follow the Lord on where to give their tithe.

Pro-required-tongues people utilize the same reasoning. They talk endlessly about speaking in tongues is allegedly evidence of their having something everyone else lacks, and therefore should have. They do so at the cost of ignoring what Paul had to say on the subject.

Other people watch what they say about the matter, and become convinced of the lies. There's nothing new about that. Sounding spiritual does have its appeal.

I give to meet needs by faith, first and foremost, and should I feel a tug at my heart to hand my primary giving over to an organization that uses only what's left over for meeting needs, I know from scripture they're wrong. How anyone can think it's ok for people who claim to be of the Faith to primarily support a dead building before seeing to the needs of felloe believers, well, that's a level of evil for which they expose themselves as guilty.

I would like to hear more on how they started tithing and what happened when they did.

Glowing testimony resulting from the psychological assumption of having pleased the Lord is common. The most telling acid test is scripture itself.

Not ONE pro-tither has yet explained how they justify the needs of the facility being a higher priority than the needs of fellow believers. They ignore that one.

AND more on how they hear from the Lord on where to give. Their experiences are inspiring to me.

You also need to hear from people who tithed to a dead building and its professional staffing, with only the leftovers used for meeting needs, and who also suffered loss.

Anyone who uses other's seemingly positive experiences and benefits, allegedly resulting from actions clearly antithetical to the scriptures, is someone looking to set up human perceptions and experience as a higher authority than scripture for God's good pleasure.

MANY people throughout history have enjoyed prosperity while doing what they THOUGHT was God's will.

When I hear someone claiming to follow what he said the Lord told him to do, which is known to be contrary to scripture, clearly is nothing more than using trying to use testimony and God as battering rams to silence challenges against known falsehoods.

(Jer 17:9) The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

Talking so much about human feelings and human perceptions in the place of scripture speaks loud volumes to the fact there's a serious problem afoot.

BTW

 

[Frogster]

I have read pretty much all of the thread - I have found it liberating.

I go to a church that hpreaches tithing, but over the years have felt some guilt when not tithing as money was tight

Reading this thread and having the information like tithes not being money etc, and reading the links, I am now convinced that tithing is not for me - and shouldn't be preached either.

Giving, led by God, could be more expensive than tithing. I know God to be a generous God - I have in the past given generously when asked, and sacrificially.

As I embark on a grace based non-legalistic way of giving I expect that will happen again.

This topic fits perfectly in with how God has been leading me away from legalisms and doings into His love and grace.

Funny how the two of us come to totally different conclusions after reading the same thread.

Blessings,

Mike

Good post, and oh that they would stress that 2 cor 8, was not for Paul's ministry, but for the poor, and it was just a one time event with the Corinthians, that had an exemption for the poor, not to give, paul was courteous. They keep taking a one time event, and use it sunday after sunday turning it into a lifelong event, that never ends.

 

[GodismySalvation]

I was hoping to see facts, doctrine is about facts, the bible has facts.

Tithe teachers don't presnet facts, as they demand tithe.

I wasn't interested in tithing teaching just bible proofs for or against tithing and the experiences and knowledge the non-legalistic tithers have. The bible proofs speak for themselves without teaching.

 

[GodismySalvation]

If you're tithing by law, switch to tithing by grace and faith. It's better in every way.

The same goes for living for God. If you're living for God by law, switch to living for Him by faith and grace.

The major difference I see between faith and law is attitude and ability.

Under grace we have new life and ability to do what pleases God.

If someone's scamming you for money, ignore them. They can't make you give them anything.

Your posts are helpful. I like the way you give bible proofs and deal graciously with the critics.

 

[Frogster]

Paul, Timothy, Titus, Barnabas, Silas, Priscila and Aquilla, working, while Paul was being beat up all the time, and bringing the gospel to the world. Is pastor busier than Paul? Imagine that, he did not want to burden people. He also showed elders to work, TO GIVE TO THE POOR IN ACTS 20, QUOTING JESUS.


1 Thess 2:9 For you remember, brothers, our labor and toil: we worked night and day, that we might not be a burden to any of you, while we proclaimed to you the gospel of God.



2 Thess 3:8 nor did we eat anyone's bread without paying for it, but with toil and labor we worked night and day, that we might not be a burden to any of you.


Acts 20:33 I coveted no one's silver or gold or apparel. 34 You yourselves know that these hands ministered to my necessities and to those who were with me. 35 In all things I have shown you that by working hard in this way we must help the weak and remember the words of the Lord Jesus, how he himself said, ‘It is more blessed to give than to receive.’”

Acts 18:3 and because he was of the same trade he stayed with them and worked, for they were tentmakers by trade

1 Cor 4:12 and we labor, working with our own hands. When reviled, we bless; when persecuted, we endure;

1 Cor 9:6 Or is it only Barnabas and I who have no right to refrain from working for a living?


2 Cor 6:5 beatings, imprisonments, riots, labors, sleepless nights, hunger;

2 Cor 11:23 Are they servants of Christ? I am a better one—I am talking like a madman—with far greater labors, far more imprisonments, with countless beatings, and often near death.

Gee…I don’t want your money…CHILDREN DON’T SAVE FOR THE PARENTS, BUT TODAY, PASTOR HAS IT ALL BACKWARDS!

2 Cor 12:14 Here for the third time I am ready to come to you. And I will not be a burden, for I seek not what is yours but you. For children are not obligated to save up for their parents, but parents for their children.

 

[Frogster]

I wasn't interested in tithing teaching just bible proofs for or against tithing and the experiences and knowledge the non-legalistic tithers have. The bible proofs speak for themselves without teaching.

why is it that the tither, and his heart are always questioned, but the tithe teachers/preachers heart and scripture twisting never gets examined?

 

[New_Wineskin]

Reading this thread and having the information like tithes not being money etc, and reading the links, I am now convinced that tithing is not for me - and shouldn't be preached either.

Preaching or telling another that they should tithe is anti-faith . Faith comes from hearing the Lord's guidance from Him - not following a doctrine or interpretation of writings .

 

[mjere]

I saw a post by someone saying the tithers haven't produced any scripture, so here you go.

Here's a list of as various tithes (10%) I found so far. The ones with * are the scriptures NT tithers base their faith tithing on.

NON-LAW
*Abraham tithes (10%) on something he won. Hebrews 7:2, Genesis 14:20

*Jacob tithes (10%) of all the Lord gives him. Genesis 28:22

*NT tithe (10%) of all that you possess. Luke 18:12

*NT Pharisee tithe 10% and Christ said to continue doing it. Matthew 23:23

*Honor the Lord with all your possession. Proverbs 3:9

*NT tithing through Christ. Hebrews 6:20 and Hebrews 7:1-28

LAW
*Lay aside a tithe of your increase for the Levite and the poor. Remove it from your house and give it. Deuteronomy 26:12-13

*Tithe (10%) is holy to the Lord. Leviticus 27:30

*The Israelites brought a tithe of everything, including produce. 2 Chronicles 31:5

1st tithe to support those doing the Lord's work. Leviticus 27:30, Numbers 8

2nd tithe to take family on yearly feast in God's presence. Deuteronomy 14:22-27

3rd tithe is the 2 year poor tithe to look after the poor. Deuteronomy 14:28-29

Tithe of the produce of the land to the Levites. Nehemiah 10:37

Tithe of the tithe to the storehouse by the Levites. Nehemiah 10:38

Malachi tithe into the storehouse. Malachi 3:10

There's no command from God or Christ to stop tithing.

There isn't a verse in the Bible commanding anyone to stop tithing, but there are tons of verses giving instructions on giving for the believer that are completely adverse to the tithe.

For instance Matthew 23:23 and Luke 18:12 (which I was surprised anyone used), it's a strong rebuke against the Pharisees, who were trusting in their tithe as a matter of holiness, and couldn't see how short they had fallen. They were doing so well with their tithes, they no longer saw a need for a savior. I think it's a strange argument for tithing.


Malachi, is very much the same; where most people assume the Jews weren't giving anything at all. They were giving some, just cutting corners here and there, particularly with the Sabbath. Those preaching tithe from Malachi are usually in the same camp. They don't know what they're confirming because if they did they would know they're simply condemning themselves.

The believer today doesn't stop giving, it's their nature to give. Verses that speak of giving according to what God purposed in your heart, and cheerfully. Verses talking about giving according to love, and not debt or obligation. If it's something you owe, I don't see how it escapes from being a debt, obligation, or something you can give cheerfully. That word "cheerfully" in this day and age has so many meanings. But to the early Christians, it was a heart attitude that had no doubts, and was something that resonated in body, soul, and spirit. Giving according to where you get your spiritual food; and how God is not to be mocked. Sewing in places that are not yielding fruits, and taking part in others not preaching the Word. These are important messages that go along with giving; and the tithe is weak in dealing with these areas.

Where I believe the two camps divide, is in the action. Most people want results, they are motivated by results. But God looks on the heart, and when a person giving under a tithe does so thinking, "God I have to do this; I really need this money. Please bless this, because my church/pastor are in need of it." Well, God would rather they keep it, because it profits them nothing.

But that doesn't mean it's not going to profit someone else- i.e. your pastor and church. The action of giving is good, but so many people have been seduced into a tithe because they believe it obligates God to be on their side, look out for them/rebuke the devourer, etc; and they've missed the entire new testament that deals with those issues by faith; and I believe this is where the anti-tithing camp has gotten ahold of some important truths.

The Bible has so many amazing lessons on finances, but if God's word is true- which it is-, a person operating under the tithe, or a person on the other extreme who is adverse to giving, makes for a pretty crappy farmer. Jesus used alot of parables to illustrate this, but when a farmer goes out and sews, he doesn't just throw 10% on the ground to make it through the winter. His goal is to get as much in good ground as possible, for a later harvest; and he trusts that the seed will produce. He also puts some away for future sewing; and not just in a storehouse. He may even invest in someone else's farm, save seed for selling, use some for his own food. He doesn't neglect food, and sews. What if he doesn't make it to the harvest?

Man's carnal ideas on the tithe, sell God and His miraculous power short. But if you look at the tithe from a spiritual standpoint; and if you're resting in the verses of Hebrews explaining Jesus' sacrifice and how you're no longer in debt to God, but have become a son, then you can see God wasn't instituting the tithe because he wants what you can give Him, he wants you to operate in the same laws that make the world operate- gravity. Give and it shall be given. Operate in faith, and sew. God wants to give to you, but He needs you to trust what He says. If you believe God's kingdom is set up to give back to those who give in a multiple effect, why wouldn't you give. It's so adverse to the world's thinking- it's supernatural. Put your money where your mouth is.

A person operating under tithe as an obligation can become self-righteous, they can be smug. In comparison to someone only gives when they're led by the Holy Spirit, they feel like they look pretty good! But the ground is level at the foot of the cross. Their tithes don't give them anymore pull, or favor with God than a person who doesn't tithe, and most churches set on the tithe out of debt NEVER preach that.

 

[WordofHisPower]

I saw a post by someone saying the tithers haven't produced any scripture, so here you go.

Here's a list of as various tithes (10%) I found so far. The ones with * are the scriptures NT tithers base their faith tithing on.

NON-LAW
*Abraham tithes (10%) on something he won. Hebrews 7:2, Genesis 14:20

*Jacob tithes (10%) of all the Lord gives him. Genesis 28:22

*NT tithe (10%) of all that you possess. Luke 18:12

*NT Pharisee tithe 10% and Christ said to continue doing it. Matthew 23:23

*Honor the Lord with all your possession. Proverbs 3:9

*NT tithing through Christ. Hebrews 6:20 and Hebrews 7:1-28

LAW
*Lay aside a tithe of your increase for the Levite and the poor. Remove it from your house and give it. Deuteronomy 26:12-13

*Tithe (10%) is holy to the Lord. Leviticus 27:30

*The Israelites brought a tithe of everything, including produce. 2 Chronicles 31:5

1st tithe to support those doing the Lord's work. Leviticus 27:30, Numbers 8

2nd tithe to take family on yearly feast in God's presence. Deuteronomy 14:22-27

3rd tithe is the 2 year poor tithe to look after the poor. Deuteronomy 14:28-29

Tithe of the produce of the land to the Levites. Nehemiah 10:37

Tithe of the tithe to the storehouse by the Levites. Nehemiah 10:38

Malachi tithe into the storehouse. Malachi 3:10

There's no command from God or Christ to stop tithing.

There isn't a verse in the Bible commanding anyone to stop tithing, but there are tons of verses giving instructions on giving for the believer that are completely adverse to the tithe.

For instance Matthew 23:23 and Luke 18:12 (which I was surprised anyone used), it's a strong rebuke against the Pharisees, who were trusting in their tithe as a matter of holiness, and couldn't see how short they had fallen. They were doing so well with their tithes, they no longer saw a need for a savior. I think it's a strange argument for tithing.

A person operating under tithe as an obligation can become self-righteous, they can be smug. In comparison to someone only gives when they're led by the Holy Spirit, they feel like they look pretty good! But the ground is level at the foot of the cross. Their tithes don't give them anymore pull, or favor with God than a person who doesn't tithe, and most churches set on the tithe out of debt NEVER preach that.

Matthew 23:23 is a good example of keep tithing and do the other more important things as well (loving God and your neighbor).

Luke 18:12 is an example of someone doing the right thing (tithing) with the wrong motive (pride).

If you're under tithe-law or walking in tithe-pride, you'll miss what the NT is about (do good by God's power).

Abraham and Jacob faith-tithed before the law. Not all tithing is law. There's faith-tithing before, during, and after the law. It's a form of worship and gratitude.

There's only tithes, offerings, alms to the poor mentioned in the 66 books of the bible. 2 Corinthians 8 and 9 and 1 Corinthians 16 are a collection for the poor. It doesn't replace tithing.

If man's tithe-teaching contradicts scripture ignore it and keep faith-tithing. Why stop tithing if God didn't tell us to?

 

[WordofHisPower]

Your posts are helpful. I like the way you give bible proofs and deal graciously with the critics.

The encouragement is appreciated. Thank you.

 

[mjere]

Matthew 23:23 is a good example of keep tithing and do the other more important things as well (loving God and your neighbor).

Luke 18:12 is an example of someone doing the right thing (tithing) with the wrong motive (pride).

If you're under the tithe law you'll miss what the NT is all about (do good by God's power).

Abraham and Jacob tithed before the law. Not all tithing is law. There's always been faith tithing before, during, and after the law.

If tithing teaching contradicts scripture ignored it and keep tithing. Why stop tithing if God didn't tell us to?

Isn't this always the argument between law verses grace. Whether or not we keep doing the right thing in the face of bad motives.

Abraham tithed, but how did God look upon Abraham? He blessed him and declared him righteous long before his righteous and unrighteous deeds. He believed God's promises, and therefore acted from there. If you believe God's promise of give and it shall be given back to you- you would give.

But the tithe/offerings/sacrifices came long before Abraham. Even Cain and Able gave from the first of their fruits. Although, I never hear people mention their example. God looked upon one offering and had respect, and looked upon the other offering with no respect. Both were born sinners, and in need of a savior, but we assume, Cain's offering was rejected because he was "bad", or had the wrong attitude. The guy was looking to please God just as much as his brother. What makes the differences is not apples and oranges.

I would like to add that Jacob's revelation of God was pretty dim in comparison to what we have by revelation today, but he desired the things of God, and wanted God's blessing in His life more than life itself. WE should follow his example and seek after our inheritance with that kind of passion, but the NT says they are already an accomplished fact. We have it by grace through faith.

I take issue with the statement that God would have us combine the tithe with weightier issues.
Jacob lived in something that was considered an abomination under the law (Abraham as well). Of course no one would argue we follow those lifestyle examples. God's perfect standard was still alive before the law was given. But God never condemned Abraham for marrying his sister. He never condemned Jacob for marrying two sisters while the other was alive. But we say God would rather us tithe in conjunction to weightier issues, such as sexual morality or pride. If God is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow; the alpha and omega; why were these issues not communicated to Abraham or Jacob? Why did Jesus pick on the Pharisees for being hypocrites, when God didn't condemn Abraham for lying about his wife? In fact God defended Abraham and rebuked Pharaoh when he lied about his wife to save his own neck, and gave her over to be defiled.
What are some of these weightier issues? Love thy neighbor? Do unto others? Abraham did the exact opposite and was declared justified by God. Jacob committed identity theft in order to receive his blessing. Sounds pretty selfish to me, and yet God was with him, and kept his promise through him. Perhaps we're talking about tithing along with Man's weightier issues, and not God's.

The NT is not about doing good by God's power. It's about us admitting we couldn't do good, and allowing a savior to do it for us- live for us, die for us, give for us. Any good flowing through us, is not us at all- it's Christ living in us. A person receiving prior to their righteous deeds has a hard time taking credit for getting it right. Able understood this, as did Abraham, David, and to some degree so did Jacob.

 

[WordofHisPower]

Preaching or telling another that they should tithe is anti-faith . Faith comes from hearing the Lord's guidance from Him - not following a doctrine or interpretation of writings .

Teaching people to stop tithes, offerings, and alms to the poor is just as wrong as forcing them to do it if they don't want to.

We're under grace. If you don't want to tithe, give offerings, or alms you don't have to, but it doesn't change the scripture examples and instructions on tithing.

If you don't want to love your neighbor or be faithful to your spouse, you don't have to, but it doesn't change the scriptural instructions to do so.

If you wait to hear the Lord speak directly to you about everything, you wouldn't need a bible. Bible instructions are one form of hearing from the Lord.

 

[BeforeThereWas]

I saw a post by someone saying the tithers haven't produced any scripture, so here you go.

Here's a list of as various tithes (10%) I found so far. The ones with * are the scriptures NT tithers base their faith tithing on.

NON-LAW
*Abraham tithes (10%) on something he won. Hebrews 7:2, Genesis 14:20

He won? You make it sound like it was a game show.

Are you telling us you believe it was Abram's intent to keep what he knew was not his from the beginning...to keep property he knew belonged to someone else? If so, on what solid foundation are you basing that assumption?

Are you telling us you personally would retrieve property you knew belonged to someone else, and that you would keep it as what you had "won," even if you had to fight and defeat someone for it? That's the immoral grounding you stand upon?

I ask that because Abram made it abundantly clear that his intent was to retrieve his nephew, not acquire loot and servants.

Where did Israel ever follow Abraham's example of tithing from the spoils of war? If he established some sort of principle, where do we see Israel, his offspring, following that example from the spoils of war?

How does tithing from spoils of war translate over into wages earned as an EXCHANGE for one's labor and skills as a matter of survival? I don't see the connection. Perhaps you could explain it?

*Jacob tithes (10%) of all the Lord gives him. Genesis 28:22

You consider Jacob an example for tithing? Where does it say he ever followed through with his promise?

How do you fit into your regiment of belief those elements about Jacob's tithe that are....less than admirable? Do you lay down expectations and requirements the Lord must meet before you tithe, or do you just do so on the basis of feelings and emotions about the subject?

How do you know Jacob ever fulfilled what he promised as an ongoing practice? How did He give it to God, as if God needed it?

*NT tithe (10%) of all that you possess. Luke 18:12

Can you explain to us how a claim of obedience to tithing from all his increase from his garden, which the Law required, has anything to do with us today?

If you're going to point at Jesus' acceptance of obedience to the Law as something that automatically translates Lawful elements to us today, then what will you do about Luke 5:14 where He told the man to offer up the burnt sacrifices ALSO required by the Law? Do you offer up such in obedience to what the Lord told him to do under the Law, as with the tithe?

*NT Pharisee tithe 10% and Christ said to continue doing it. Matthew 23:23

The NT covenant had not yet been established, so what do you mean by saying they're NT? The cup of the New Covenant was passed to mankind LONG AFTER that discussion with the pharisees, so by what authority could anyone move that line of distinction away from the authority of Christ Jesus?

*Honor the Lord with all your possession. Proverbs 3:9

That's indeed an encouragement to adhere to what the Law commanded of those who received increase from fields, orchards, vineyards, flocks and herds. Can you show where the wages of wage earners was EVER a consideration in the system of tithing? Can you show us where even fishermen were required to tithe? Got anything to say along that line?

*NT tithing through Christ. Hebrews 6:20 and Hebrews 7:1-28

You've ignored the short dissertation I provided in post 545 about your misuse of Hebrews, and you offered no rebuttal to it, so this one is meaningless until you provide something to back up your misuse of that book.

LAW
*Lay aside a tithe of your increase for the Levite and the poor. Remove it from your house and give it. Deuteronomy 26:12-13

Can you show us where that instruction within the Law, BASED upon the the Law-ful definition of the tithe, had anything to do with the wages of wage earners, such as you and me? If not, then the use of this and all other references based in the Law fall flat, as well as the parallels between Abram's tithe from spoils of war and us.

*Tithe (10%) is holy to the Lord. Leviticus 27:30

*The Israelites brought a tithe of everything, including produce. 2 Chronicles 31:5

1st tithe to support those doing the Lord's work. Leviticus 27:30, Numbers 8

2nd tithe to take family on yearly feast in God's presence. Deuteronomy 14:22-27

3rd tithe is the 2 year poor tithe to look after the poor. Deuteronomy 14:28-29

Tithe of the produce of the land to the Levites. Nehemiah 10:37

Tithe of the tithe to the storehouse by the Levites. Nehemiah 10:38

Malachi tithe into the storehouse. Malachi 3:10

These are all fine examples of the Law, as you pointed out, and its requirements of those who were under the Law, and who were required to tithe ONLY from the increase from the fields, orchards, vineyards, flocks and herds. You still haven't produced anything in relation to the wages of wage earners.

There's no command from God or Christ to stop tithing.

Given that the tithe was tied directly to the Levites and the tabernacle, or temple, and that the veil was ripped by the Hand of God from top to bottom, thus illegitimizing the temple and the Levitical priesthood, there's nothing left to which to tie the tithe requirement. Considering how much mention made about tithing throughout the OT, and the lack of any supporting command from any of the apostles, I'd say you're doing nothing less than trying to prove something from silence.

It's one thing to point at a slew of verses ripped from their contexts as alleged proof for tithing today under the Law, but quite another to build your case by way of explaining your use of those verses as applying to us today.

Are you willing to support your use of those verses with explanations for each, and answering the questions asked of you?

For those who assume the anti-required-tithe position is nothing more than a matter of NOT giving, get a life!

If such people's reading comprehension skills are so under-developed that they can't comprehend otherwise, then perhaps they should go back to grammar school and learn to read what others have actually stated. At no time have I ever said or implied cheerful giving is not a standing principle. My premises and conclusions have always been based upon giving, first and foremost, in the direction exemplified by scripture, and to do so based upon whatever amount one purposes in his mind and heart, just as the scriptures instruct. Those who accuse otherwise are by nature and trade NOT bastions of TRUTH and intellectual honesty.

BTW

 

[probinson]

For those who assume the anti-required-tithe position is nothing more than a matter of NOT giving, get a life!

If such people's reading comprehension skills are so under-developed that they can't comprehend otherwise, then perhaps they should go back to grammar school and learn to read what others have actually stated. At no time have I ever said or implied cheerful giving is not a standing principle. My premises and conclusions have always been based upon giving, first and foremost, in the direction exemplified by scripture, and to do so based upon whatever amount one purposes in his mind and heart, just as the scriptures instruct. Those who accuse otherwise are by nature and trade NOT bastions of TRUTH and intellectual honesty.

I wish that I cold say that the anti-required-tithe proponents were all about giving graciously, as you have demonstrated to me that you are. But unfortunately, that has not been my experience with the majority that I've spoken with.

You have made clear to me that you believe in generous, Spirit-led giving. But you're not the only one posting in this thread. Furthermore, I think you should realize that the anti-tithe group by and large focuses on not giving. Now that I am a part of the anti-required-tithe ranks myself, I just have to accept that people are going to assume that means I don't want to give. But I would concede to those people that is not just a baseless accusation, although it is a sweeping generalization that certainly doesn't apply to everyone. There are scads of anti-required-tithe folks who are only looking for reasons to criticize, complain and not give.

If the anti-required-tithe folks would spend more time talking about how we should give generously as the Spirit leads as you have done in this thread, then it would be easier to overcome the stereotype. But as long as people are talking about how they don't want to tithe and give because their pastor shops at better stores than them, it reeks of greed and jealousy. These are not earmarks of someone whose heart is in generous giving.

Personally, I could care less what pastors wear, what kind of cars they drive or how big their house is. That's between them and God. My focus is on giving generously as the Spirit leads (in case you missed it the first 50 times I said it in this thread).