NT or OT?

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by mishkan Conflicts? Did you get a defective Bible?

There are no conflicts between OT and NT?

So it's settled then?


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[yonah_mishael]

Give us some examples please.

Wouldn't that be considered to be forming an argument? Is he/she allowed to do that here?

 

[dollarsbill]

Give us some examples please.

Not trying to stir up a stink. I thought the conflicts were extremely obvious.

 

[dollarsbill]

Wouldn't that be considered to be forming an argument? Is he/she allowed to do that here?

That's exactly why I was trying to careful.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by dollarsbill There are no conflicts between OT and NT?

Not trying to stir up a stink. I thought the conflicts were extremely obvious.

What conflicts are you referring to?
This is all you had in your OP and it appears to me to be a little vague:

Do Messianics go by NT or OT?

 

[dollarsbill]

What conflicts are you referring to?
This is all you had in your OP and it appears to me to be a little vague:

See above.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by LittleLambofJesus What conflicts are you referring to?
This is all you had in your OP and it appears to me to be a little vague:

See above.

For what?


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[mishkan]

There are no conflicts between OT and NT?

Not to my understanding.

There still remain a few passages that I'm not sure I understand correctly, but the methodology I follow has solved pretty much all the questions/concerns I had.

1. The original text is the original meaning. Later references that seem to present a change should be read as sermonic commentary, not necessarily meant to be taken in a woodenly literal manner.

2. Realize that the Messianic letters were written post-Babylonian captivity, and sometimes address topics differently.

3. Related to the previous points, first century writers had a whole new technique of writing, called "midrash", that did not exist prior to the captivity.

Add a little bit of historical context, and read the apocryphal material that is available, and you will find that almost everything gels quite nicely. The Bible must be read as a continuous record of real life, using real language. We can't simply mine it for sound bites.

 

[Lulav]

Related to the previous points, first century writers had a whole new technique of writing, called "midrash", that did not exist prior to the captivity.

???

 

[yedida]

See above.

This doesn't seem fair but here it is: you may ask the specific question but you may not debate with us if you don't like the answer. You can ask further questions to try to shore up what you're wanting to know, that's allowed. If that doesn't work for you, I'm sure if you're really interested ,one of our "scholars" wouldn't mind talking to you via email or PMs. Just trying to resolve your delimma.

 

[anisavta]

I know we have to be careful, but Dollar asked a question that we answered. We acknowledge both OT and NT. Then another vague question about conflict. Unless we know what he considers conflicting, then we're wasting time and will only end up bickering with each other. Maybe if he asks us a specific question then we can answer it.

 

[Avodat]

How do you resolve conflicts between them?

I study them and study them and study them - it is highly recommended! Learn about the times and society in which the words were penned. Read historical material (but remember a lot of it is biased). Understand Biblical Judaism - it's what Yeshua and his disciples lived and taught. Learn about Helenistic ways and society for the latter part of The Book. Ponder deeply on why those words we call 'scripture' were passed on to us out of the billions of words that were spoken about G_d across the best part of 6 millennia. Make the connections between what you quaintly call the 'Old' Testament and the 'New' Testament - follow the paths to see what is at the beginning, in the middle and at the end. In other words, give your time to it and many of what you call 'conflicts' will disappear - most will be the result of your shortcomings in really knowing the things I have mentioned above, and for that there is but one answer.

I'm still learning many things after 40+ years of reading / studying the scriptures and gaining some academic recognition for my efforts. Many of what I used to call 'conflicts' no longer are (and, no, I am not a liberal). In comparison - how old are you? For how long have you studied The Book?

 

[dollarsbill]

This doesn't seem fair but here it is: you may ask the specific question but you may not debate with us if you don't like the answer.

And I haven't been debating with anyone here.

You can ask further questions to try to shore up what you're wanting to know, that's allowed. If that doesn't work for you, I'm sure if you're really interested ,one of our "scholars" wouldn't mind talking to you via email or PMs. Just trying to resolve your delimma.

But I see no way of following both the OT and NT.

 

[yedida]

And I haven't been debating with anyone here.

But I see no way of following both the OT and NT.

No, you haven't been debating, nor did I say that you had been. I was just refreshing your memory, so to speak....
There's a whole lot of folks who don't seem to have any problems obeying God's commands. Give us some specifics and maybe we can flesh it out with you.

 

[anisavta]

I think I get Dollar's drift. How can one follow the Law when supposedly Yeshua did away with it. Is that it?

 

[dollarsbill]

No, you haven't been debating, nor did I say that you had been. I was just refreshing your memory, so to speak....
There's a whole lot of folks who don't seem to have any problems obeying God's commands. Give us some specifics and maybe we can flesh it out with you.

Exodus 31:15 (NASB)
15 For six days work may be done, but on the seventh day there is a sabbath of complete rest, holy to the LORD; whoever does any work on the sabbath day shall surely be put to death.

 

[yedida]

Exodus 31:15 (NASB)
15 For six days work may be done, but on the seventh day there is a sabbath of complete rest, holy to the LORD; whoever does any work on the sabbath day shall surely be put to death.

Are any of us living under a theocracy as the Israelites were at that time? We cannot arbitarily go about stoning folks today because we are under the democratic government of the United States of America. When rule is once again restored and handed over to the Son, I have no problem believing that this might just go into effect again. Some things found in the Torah have had to be suspended due to no Temple, no functioning priesthood at this time. Will it all fully return (save possibly the sin-sacrifice)? It's possible. But it may not because, as Hebrews tells us, there has been a change made in the priesthood, so some of the laws will also be changed because of that. But just because we don't go around stoning people because they are not observing Shabbes as good as we feel they should, is that any reason to figure that it's okay to ignore the laws of God that are easily observable? I don't think so.

 

[Avodat]

Exodus 31:15 (NASB)
15 For six days work may be done, but on the seventh day there is a sabbath of complete rest, holy to the LORD; whoever does any work on the sabbath day shall surely be put to death.

There is no need to shout at us - we can all 'hear' you with normal sized print!

If you read, and understand, the part of The Book you call the New Testament, and the words of Yeshua and others, you would find the answer to your concern re this text and its implications for today.

Have you never, ever, violated this law in any way whatsoever?

 

[sevengreenbeans]

Speaking only for myself here...

I look to Torah *Genesis through Deuteronomy* as the words from YHWH's mouth given to Moses, a great prophet.

All the rest of the books (Biblical, Apocryphal, Pseudepigraphical, Talmud, any and all other spiritual reference books) should be held to the standard of Torah, studied, if one wishes, and compared and cross-referenced, etc. Study from historical, geographical, political, archaeological, linguistic (etc.) standpoints, because studying the "where" and "who's who" is helpful.

I also see the whole of Torah as pre-Judaism. Though Judaism has Torah at its foundation.

Serving YHWH is an individual journey for everyone.

 

[Qnts2]

And I haven't been debating with anyone here.

But I see no way of following both the OT and NT.

The 'OT' and NT are all one book with the same author, God.

The first disciples and Jesus quoted the 'OT'/Tenach. The NT had not yet been written, so the foundation of the Messiah is found in the Tenach. The Bereans studied the Tenach to see if what Paul said was true. Everything the early Christians taught and understood was compared to the Tenach to see the prophesy and to know if what was being taught was true.

If they found no conflict between the two, we shouldn't either.

2 Tim 3:16 All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; 17 so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work.

For me personally, I grew up with only the Tenach and later read the NT. I knew the NT to be truly Gods because it not only did not conflict the Tenach but actually was an extension. What God prophesied in the Tenach was witnessed as a reality (Messiah), in the NT, so the Gospels are the required witnesses verifying the Jesus/Yeshua is the prophesied Messiah. So, following the laws of the Tenach, the NT is the required by law witness. Without the Tenach, the NT would not have validity.