Originally Posted by disciple1
Galatians chapter 3 verse 16 The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. The Scripture does not say and to seeds , meaning many people, but and to your seed meaning one person, who is Christ.
So back when Abraham was alive God knew he was going to use him and David to bring Christ into the world, even though it was the peoples choice to have a king. And back then he knew Mr. Obama would be president, so he's also going to use him for his good and our good if we love God.
But then again I guess your right I can't say it was Gods will and you can't say it wasn't Gods the only one who can say.
But at least it's not a false religion in office controlled by Satan.
As one of
my brothers in Christ once said best in another discussion on the issue:
No president is the answer. And the people have very short memories. Administrations come and go but we the people remain. We try to look thru the mud-slinging and vote our conscience, but for the most part it is no different than gambling. We hope this one performs. Then a few months in we decide not to like him when things get tough for him and then start demanding change. I've seen few nations vacilitate more than the USA. While democracy is a wonderful edifice, it does have some drawbacks, as does any earthly government that does not look solely to God for leadership like we had before the Hebrews demanded a king.
As to demanding morality, I'm of mixed feelings on that. On one hand, I want my kids to grow up in a fairly moral civilization, where homosexuality is a hush-word and premarital sex is the abnormal rather than the normal as it is today. On the other hand, dictating morality on a lost culture only serves to do two things - create a moral culture still bound for hell, and create more hatred against us for our tampering. And then there's the third thing we must face - our efforts to enforce morality on society is inevitably doomed. We can protest abortion and homosexual marriage and premarital sex all we want, but society is going to go apostate and they're going to turn on us hard, regardless of what we do. Prophesy like that is not something that can be circumvented - it's going to happen. Knowing it's going to happen gives us the edge and helps focus us on the truly important issue we have been trusted with - bringing the Gospel to a lost world regardless of how they hate us.
Does that mean we give up protesting the wrongs? No - silence can equal acceptance and the world must know that we do not accept what is happening. We've been given tools by the system to express our opinions that can affect legistlation to a degree and those tools unused are tools that Satan would use instead, so we would be irresponsible not to use them. We have been told to pray for and support our leaders. Nero surely even was prayed for! However we need to ensure that we keep our focus on our job and not be overly caught up and distracted fighting something that is going to happen regardless. We need to be serving more to keep the light shining for the world that they may be convicted and repent, or later be judged by that same light where they had a chance but refused to take it.
Romans 13:1-,7
1bFor there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God. .....4For he is Gods minister to you for good. .....7Render therefore to all their due: taxes to whom taxes are due, customs to whom customs, fear to whom fear, honor to whom honor.
Are we not to honor the President? I did not vote for him this year (although I did back in 2008 - and that was after a long battle of prayer/even considering not voting at all since I didn't think any cannidates were others I could agree 100% with). I do not agree with many of his positions. But he is now my president, and I will offer him the full honor due of that position, but
not the unquestioned acceptance of his decisions.
Serving has nothing to do with endorsing. It has to do with obedience. Scripture directs us to submit. And submission is about serving, not endorsing that which is wrong.
God has called us to submit to authority. But He has not called us to disobey Him in submitting to that authority. We see the same thing within scripture when it comes to Biblica characters like Joseph in Genesis 38-49...as Pharaoh was already the ruler. Joseph was submitting to that which God had placed in authority over him when it came to his work and the dreams he had. Joseph's people are the same people that Moses led out of bondage. He submitted to Pharaoh because that's what he was supposed to do. And when God was ready to get His people out from under the rule of that which was against Him, He did.
Scripture makes clear (such as the Book of Ezra) is sovereign, in spite of the failures and faithlessness of men.
The kings heart is in the hand of the Lord like channels of water;he turns it wherever he wants (
Proverbs 21:1).
Just as God moved in the heart of Cyrus, so that his decree fulfilled the prophecies of Jeremiah (
Jeremiah 25:8-12;
Jeremiah 27:21-22;
Jeremiah 29:10-14 )and Isaiah, with Cyrus being Gods servant (
Isaiah 44:28-45:9 ), as well as Nebuchadnezzar (
Jeremiah 25:9),
.or even with Joseph in Egypt/having the support of unbelieving pharoah, so I believe the sames possible today. If God could use others like Joseph or Daniel to influence those in leadership and allowed things to be set up as they were so that they'd be able show His heart in fathering nations/helping their leaders see Him, then I wonder why others don't feel the same is possible today when it comes to opportunities for believers to learn how to submit to those in leadership/authority and yet disagree with them respectfully and also show love to them where they're at while also challenging them as well.
Kris Vallotton - Fathering Nations
Many were already saying "President Romney" when he was running while saying "Mr.Obama" (something that came off very disrespectful) - but Mitt Romney was not in authority. He was running to be in authority. And there is a stark difference between submitting to someone whom God has placed in authority over you and endorsing that person who is against God to be placed into authority over you.
Had that man, Romney, been elected, it would have completely changed what Christianity is in the eyes of the world. And to an extent, it probably already has. I know many who wanted Romney kept saying "Well, it doesn't matter that He's Mormon and we're not voting for a Christian president" - and yet if his Mormonism was a none issue, it wouldn't have been avoided like the plague by every evangelical who was trying to convince people that it was in the country's best interest to support him. If his Mormonism was not an issue, the
Billy Graham Organization wouldn't have taken it down as a cult.
So many people placed their faith in having a conservative cannidate (or one who was labeled as such, since many didn't feel Romney was anything close to being conservative) that they ended up doing a lot of things that were anti-Christian....and it was interesting to see how many felt that their faith was lost at the election. But it's not about being conservative in office or liberal and I'm glad for others noting the issue. Internet Monk noted it best on their site, as seen in the article entitled
"I am Not a Conservative Christian - Internet Monk"
As
they said best:
Barack Hussein Obama has won reelection as president of the United States of America. No matter what comes our way, Obama is the one the majority of Americans said they want to lead us.
Whether this makes you happy, sad, mad, or simply makes you reach for the TV remote to see what is on Sportscenter, the fact is Barack Obama is going to continue in his role as our nations leader.
We, too, (at least those of us who live in the United States) have a role to play. We are free to defend him or criticize him. But one thing we are commanded to do is to pray for him. Let us pray with humility, kindness and love for the leader of our nation that we may continue to experience the freedom we have to worship our God as we do.
