Why do some people think Hell isn't real?

[P1LGR1M]

There are temporal 'scourgings for every son whom he loveth' 'here and now' for SINNING Christians.

Why else would God scourge his children whom he loveth?

We are told:

Hebrews 12:5-6

King James Version (KJV)


5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:

6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.



It is because we are His children that we receive chastening.


8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.


One doesn't spank someone else's child, Hillsage, and those that are not God's children are according to the Lord...children of the devil.

It is not!!! Read the bold print you just quoted. "be ye reconciled to GOD."

Yes, that should read "reconciled to God." That is an unintentional error on my part. And while I recognize Christ IS God, I do distinguish between the Father and the Son.

Probably had in mind "If any man be in Christ" while typing this.

If all are already reconciled, what sense does this make?

I've explained that, hopefully you understand what I'm saying.

It is understood...and rejected as unscriptural gobbledy-[bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse].

No ATONEMENT is through the death of Christ.

And it through that death, Hillsage, that reconciliation is accomplished.

Whatever book you read this in, I would suggest utilizing it in your next cook-out.

Again two different words meaning two different things.

This is true. Yet reconciliation is not accomplished in the lives of those that are...dead.

God was reconciling man through Jesus before he died.

This is incorrect. Christ fulfilled the role of Prophet seen in the prophecy concerning Him.

What you seem to forget is that He said Himself:


Matthew 15:24

King James Version (KJV)


24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.



John the Baptist was used of God to preach a truth even John did not understand: "Behold! The Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world."

And yet John sent his disciples to inquire of Christ while he sat waiting to die (John, that is) whether He was the Christ or did they seek another?


Matthew 11

King James Version (KJV)


1 And it came to pass, when Jesus had made an end of commanding his twelve disciples, he departed thence to teach and to preach in their cities.

2 Now when John had heard in the prison the works of Christ, he sent two of his disciples,

3 And said unto him, Art thou he that should come, or do we look for another?

4 Jesus answered and said unto them, Go and shew John again those things which ye do hear and see:

5 The blind receive their sight, and the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, and the deaf hear, the dead are raised up, and the poor have the gospel preached to them.

6 And blessed is he, whosoever shall not be offended in me.



It is just my opinion that the mystery of Christ in His Atoning work was not understood by anyone...until the Comforter came. In Acts 1 we see the Lord's disciples still seeking the promised earthly Kingdom they knew was promised to Israel.


Continued...

 

[P1LGR1M]

Remember the woman caught in adultery? Remember the man healed and told "Go and sin no more lest something worse happen."? How could Jesus forgive sins if He hadn't died for them yet?

Very simple...because He was God, and everyone is familiar with the concept that God can forgive sins.

But God has been forgiving sin long before the appointed time when He would come and do that which the Law could not do...forgive sin completely. This is found taught specifically in the book of Hebrews, it is the Doctrine of Perfection. Check it out some time.

You do not understand that sin has a 'temporal' consequence as well as an 'ages to come' consequence.

You make much of what "I don't understand," yet, I can promise you, doctrine like this is quite easy to see...through.

And your faulty undertanding of what it means when scripture speaks of that which is eternal and that which is everlasting leaves you sith an understanding that even God is not Eternal.

You see, only God can bestow eternal life, for He is the source. If one is IN CHRIST, they share in HIS life. In this I see the KJV translators did understand this, as they ascribe eternal life to believers and EVERLASTING PUNISHMENT to those that remain in the condemnation they were born in.

Great job on thier part.

God has provided for BOTH. His plan was complete.

Christ made salvation complete, Hillsage. And the writer that tells us that the blood of Christ both sanctifies and perfects forever also tells us that God will take vengeance, not chastisement, upon those that have done despite unto the Sprit of Grace and have TRAMPLED under foot The Son of God.

You just can't spit in God's face and expect there will be no consequence.

I wondered if you might not suggest such a thing. Do you believe man is triune?

Actually, no, I don't. I lean heavily to a dichotomy, man being spirit and body, which comprises the entirety...the soul. Man has a spirit and a body, which makes him a soul.

I do leave room for error on my part, but I think that scripture will also back me up on this.

1TH 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.


If not, then explain this one verse.

You are almost right, there are actually two verses in scripture that seem to contradict a dichotomy of man. The other being found here:
Hebrews 4:12

King James Version (KJV)


12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.



Now the former I would say that it is entirely possible that Paul speaks of soul and spirit separately because it is seen in scripture that "spirit" can refer to the will of a man, such as "spirit of fear" or "spirit of antichrist." But it is written from the beginning that God made man of the dust of the earth and breathed life into him and man became a living soul." And this is usually part of the discussion concerning the eternality of Hell and the punishment of Hell, so I am not opposed to discussing it.

Concerning the latter this is a little easier to comment on as the division of spirit and soul can clearly refer to one's death, where he is separated from his physical body. Notice that joints and marrow and thought and intents are also mentioned. We could separate them from one another but they still refer to something that while divisible make up one unit.

Another verse that I view as a possible proof-text against my position would be...


Revelation 18:12-14

King James Version (KJV)


12 The merchandise of gold, and silver, and precious stones, and of pearls, and fine linen, and purple, and silk, and scarlet, and all thyine wood, and all manner vessels of ivory, and all manner vessels of most precious wood, and of brass, and iron, and marble,

13 And cinnamon, and odours, and ointments, and frankincense, and wine, and oil, and fine flour, and wheat, and beasts, and sheep, and horses, and chariots, and slaves, and souls of men.

14 And the fruits that thy soul lusted after are departed from thee, and all things which were dainty and goodly are departed from thee, and thou shalt find them no more at all.


...though I think we still see it as a reference to menin general, unless we want see "slaves" as men who do not have "souls."

But I will be happy to discuss this with you. It is a fascinating topic I never tire of, and as we go through these verses the proof-texts for annihilation will drop away...one by one.

There are others....

Not really. This:

1TH 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

...is the best you have to offer. And it does not convince me that man is a trichotomy. I admit I maybe wrong, but in all of the discussions I have had concering this issue I have yet had one convince me, as every verse supplied can easily be seen to have a context pointing to this term used as a reference to man in his sum total. I cannot think of one that does not, but it has been a little while, so maybe I am just forgetting that someone else showed me the error of my thinking.

Just do me a favor and read the context of the passage before submitting it.

Continued...

 

[P1LGR1M]

but I'm still trying to keep things shorter with you.

Don't get short with me!

Just kidding. Hey, you can say that all you want. One of two things will happen, Hillsage, you will either stop responding and thus teaching that which you teach, or you will begin to put the effort into establishing by better posts the doctrine you teach.

Makes no difference either way to me.

Very few will read all this.

Is that important to you?

It's not for me. This is one advantage to having longer posts...it cuts the peanut gallery down to a minimum. There are fewer interruptions.

It's all good...right?

But there will be those that read, and it is my hope that they will be moved to not only see scripture in it's proper context, but moved to begin themselves defending the Once Delivered Faith.

I frequent quite a few forums, and I see this all the time. Before long, the time I spend here will be less, because there will be others that will read and will understand on these difficult topics, and those that have wagged the tongue in public will be less and less inclined to tie into this particular conversation.

Remember the scripture about how 'Gentiles won't be heard because of their many words'? That works here too IMO.

That applies to the faint of heart, mostly. Believe it or not, there are those that go through anything they can find on particular subjects.

In case you haven't noticed the views threads like this get, it is in the thousands.

So if this is a concern for you my friend, you have two choices...

Nobody thinks you or I am 'the expert' whose every word is precious.

Just not necessary. What is necessary is that the word of God is broadcast. It will do the work in hearts that is necessary. My part is very small, and nothing can be attributed to me. There is much going on in the background which we are not aware of.

I say that because if we can't shorten things up I'll really have to quit.

Which is why I will encourage you the more, to put the effort into the most important endeavor man can embark on, and that is preaching and teaching the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

As I said, say this all you want, but in the end, God will determine your course.

Do you believe this, Hillsage? He will, you know.

MY eyes just get too tired.

Mine too, but woe is me if I preach not the Gospel. Before long I will have to write to you in large letters, lol.

God bless.

 

[P1LGR1M]

The reason why there are people who deny the reality of Hell is simple. After all, it is a new thing- it has been conceived through modern liberalism that Hell is unjust.

Such opinion is, quite simply put, a facade. Human nature has not really changed, only an illusion of change has taken place. Deep down, everybody has good and bad in them. It's what they choose to act on that decides where they stand. Just because the new world has tread on more seemingly benevolent notions does not mean this nature has shifted.

Because of this, there should be no reason why orthodox notions of salvation and damnation should change. There is simply too much evidence of Hell to deny it; whacking it with a self-righteous moral gambit does not serve to do anything except blind people from the truth- Hell is a reality in Christianity.

Agreed. You almost hit the nail on the head in saying:

After all, it is a new thing- it has been conceived through modern liberalism that Hell is unjust.

Remembe that the Sadducees were the original annihilationists mentioned in scripture. It is an ancient heresy which the Lord addressed Himself in rebuking the Sadducees and saying, "Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures."

It is sad to see this doctrine creeping into fellowships all over the world. but, what can you expect of a generation that sees tolerance ass the "golden rule?"

God bless.

 

[dollarsbill]

Remembe that the Sadducees were the original annihilationists mentioned in scripture.

Scripture please.

 

[P1LGR1M]

Scripture please.

You got it:


Mark 12

King James Version (KJV)

18 Then come unto him the Sadducees, which say there is no resurrection; and they asked him, saying,


The Sadducees denied the supernatural. They did not believe in a/the resurrection, therefore they pose to the Lord a hypothetical situation where the Law is hoped to contradict the teaching of resurrection, in that, the Law required a wife pass to the next son that seed might be produced (v.19).


24 And Jesus answering said unto them, Do ye not therefore err, because ye know not the scriptures, neither the power of God?

25 For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven.

26 And as touching the dead, that they rise: have ye not read in the book of Moses, how in the bush God spake unto him, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob?

27 He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living: ye therefore do greatly err.


The Lord shows them their error by pointing out that God said I AM the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob...not WAS the God (the implicationthey no longer existed.

It is amazing to me annihilationists can read this and not see the correlation to the doctrine they teach. We therefore conclude that the Lord is right, they are wrong, and this will we teach.


We gain more insight to the doctrine of the Sadducees here:


Acts 23:6-8

King James Version (KJV)


6 But when Paul perceived that the one part were Sadducees, and the other Pharisees, he cried out in the council, Men and brethren, I am a Pharisee, the son of a Pharisee: of the hope and resurrection of the dead I am called in question.

7 And when he had so said, there arose a dissension between the Pharisees and the Sadducees: and the multitude was divided.

8 For the Sadducees say that there isno resurrection, neither angel, nor spirit: but the Pharisees confess both.



Their denial of things supernatural is in our minds just as bewildering as the doctrines espoused by any today.

They believed that when a man died...that was it. They accepted only the Torah, which is the Pentateuch, also called in scirpture the Law (not to be confused with the First Covenant, also called the Law in scripture).

Hope that helps.

God bless.

 

[Hillsage]

P1LFR1M,

When I saw how much you again wrote this morning, I skipped it all to find this one point below. Sorry you spent all the time you did writing. I'm not going to enter in to diatribe.

Originally Posted by Hillsage

Nobody thinks you or I am 'the expert' whose every word is precious.
​

 

[Exjunkman]

I was thinkin about all this agruing about the existence of hell. I have spent a ton of time studying and reading ideas arguments and such.

What if maybe hell isn't a "place" but a "state"?

Give me a minute... They say God is an all consuming fire. Lets say two people die. Let's say they both enter into the presence of God. One is a believer, covered in the blood of the lamb. His righteousness is like pure gold. What happens to pur egold in the presence of fire. Not much. It is simply purified. The other person is a sinner who would not believe. His works in life are called wood, hay and stubble. What happens to wood, hay and stubble in the presence of fire? It is burned up. It is affected by the fire dramatically.

So what if hell is simply the affects of the presence of God being felt by the sinner?
That idea would not really deny any teachings of the bible, would it? Jesus used the words "enter into Hades" but it still could apply to entering a "state" rather than a "place", right?

 

[Hillsage]

I was thinkin about all this agruing about the existence of hell.

If you checked scripture you'd find that your 'semi' scripture quote which you applied to that unsaved sinner, really applies to a sinning saint.

1CO 3:10 According to the grace of God given to me, like a skilled master builder I laid a foundation, and another man is building upon it. Let each man take care how he builds upon it.
11 For no other foundation can any one lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

This scripture is talking about someone getting saved (Christ foundation) and walking in good and bad works thereafter. What happens to this sinning saint at the judgment is dealt with next.

1CO 3:12 Now if any one builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw -- :14 If the work which any man has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. 15 If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be SAVED, but only as THROUGH FIRE.

His good works give him A REWARD IN HEAVEN they do not give him entrance TO HEAVEN. Entrance is based upon the work of Jesus and not your works. And this unsaved saint's salvation isn't complete until all his unsaved soul has been purged BY THE FIRE. Everyone must be purged of the things that made him do the bad works to begin with.

That idea would not really deny any teachings of the bible, would it? Jesus used the words "enter into Hades" but it still could apply to entering a "state" rather than a "place", right?

It applies to the state of mortal death...in the grave. But only King James had it right.

YLT 1CO 15:55 where, O Death/thanatos, thy sting? where, O Hades, thy victory?'

KJV 1CO 15:55* O death/thanatos, where is thy sting? O grave/hades, where is thy victory?

NAS, NIV, RSV 1CO 15:55* "Where, O death/thanatos, is your victory? Where, O death/hades, is your sting?"


So keep "thinkin" it's good for us all.

PS KJV AND YLT got it right. The orthodox translations couldn't admit the truth and so they changed the word that they always translated as eternal HELL into death in this verse. Wonder why?

 

[strangertoo]

God's children do not go to Hell. But the children of the Devil do.

Jesus went to 'hell' my friend...

Acts 2:31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.

ALL are freed from 'hell' in the new earth kingdom, freed of sin by death [as in Rom 6:7]

Rev 20:13 ...death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

rather obviously then God did not pre-judge and 'condemn' men in this life

... after all there are still-births and very young deaths in this life , and in fact MOST men lived BEFORE Jesus came , so had no chance at all to accept him...

so being freed from sin by death is by far the commonest way as few are saved in this earth and the many are destroyed -Matt 7:13-14

BUT of that many contless many are later saved [Rev 7:9-10] ... obviously Jesus has a task for the few saved in this earth because they Love now, stop sinning so that God can forgive their previous sins ...

Jesus explains their future task in his kingdom , not of THIS world :-

John 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world:

Revelation 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth

2 Peter 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Revelation 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

Isaiah 65:17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

notice that Jesus is talking about the death of BILLIONS in the end of this earth in the wrath of God against ALL still sinning by time of his return :-

2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up
...
2 Peter 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

BUT we know from Jesus that these destroyed sinners are the only ones who can be ruled and ministered to by the FEW who are now saved at Jesus' return ... we know that countless many are later SAVED and that they were not saved in this earth ...

All are released from hell [Rev 20:13] for a reason then, and it is NOT simply to confirm some mythical prejudgement by God because they sinned in this life ... for many the new earth kingdom of Jesus and the FEW saints of this earth is the FIRST chance to know and accept Love tthrough Jesus Christ!...

and MANY, countess many are later saved - Rev 7:9-10 - by works -Rev 20:13- before judgement but after death frees them from sin... so they do not need grace in this earth ... only to Love and be forgiven in the kingdom come for their good works of Love, no more sin, there ...

 

[dollarsbill]

You got it:


Mark 12

King James Version (KJV)

18 Then come unto him the Sadducees, which say there is no resurrection; and they asked him, saying,


The Sadducees denied the supernatural. They did not believe in a/the resurrection, therefore they pose to the Lord a hypothetical situation where the Law is hoped to contradict the teaching of resurrection, in that, the Law required a wife pass to the next son that seed might be produced (v.19).


24 And Jesus answering said unto them, Do ye not therefore err, because ye know not the scriptures, neither the power of God?

25 For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven.

26 And as touching the dead, that they rise: have ye not read in the book of Moses, how in the bush God spake unto him, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob?

27 He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living: ye therefore do greatly err.


The Lord shows them their error by pointing out that God said I AM the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob...not WAS the God (the implicationthey no longer existed.

It is amazing to me annihilationists can read this and not see the correlation to the doctrine they teach. We therefore conclude that the Lord is right, they are wrong, and this will we teach.


We gain more insight to the doctrine of the Sadducees here:


Acts 23:6-8

King James Version (KJV)


6 But when Paul perceived that the one part were Sadducees, and the other Pharisees, he cried out in the council, Men and brethren, I am a Pharisee, the son of a Pharisee: of the hope and resurrection of the dead I am called in question.

7 And when he had so said, there arose a dissension between the Pharisees and the Sadducees: and the multitude was divided.

8 For the Sadducees say that there isno resurrection, neither angel, nor spirit: but the Pharisees confess both.



Their denial of things supernatural is in our minds just as bewildering as the doctrines espoused by any today.

They believed that when a man died...that was it. They accepted only the Torah, which is the Pentateuch, also called in scirpture the Law (not to be confused with the First Covenant, also called the Law in scripture).

Hope that helps.

God bless.

I wasn't disputing what you said, just curious.

 

[dollarsbill]

Jesus went to 'hell' my friend...

Acts 2:31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.

Most English translations say "hades". Not Hell. Jesus NEVER sinned. Not even once.

ALL are freed from 'hell' in the new earth kingdom, freed of sin by death [as in Rom 6:7]

Rev 20:13 ...death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

rather obviously then God did not pre-judge and 'condemn' men in this life

None of which says all will be saved.

... after all there are still-births and very young deaths in this life , and in fact MOST men lived BEFORE Jesus came , so had no chance at all to accept him...

Please elaborate.

so being freed from sin by death is by far the commonest way as few are saved in this earth and the many are destroyed -Matt 7:13-14

BUT of that many contless many are later saved [Rev 7:9-10] ... obviously Jesus has a task for the few saved in this earth because they Love now, stop sinning so that God can forgive their previous sins ...

Are you really saying all who commit sins are not saved?

All are released from hell [Rev 20:13] for a reason then, and it is NOT simply to confirm some mythical prejudgement by God because they sinned in this life ... for many the new earth kingdom of Jesus and the FEW saints of this earth is the FIRST chance to know and accept Love tthrough Jesus Christ!...

It doesn't even come close to saying that.

"They will be tormented day and night forever and ever". I don't know of even one English Bible that denies this statement.

 

[P1LGR1M]

I wasn't disputing what you said, just curious.

No worries, dollarsbill, I didn't see it as hostile, but just as you say, curiosity. It is a pretty bold statement, and worth questioning, lol.

 

[Hetta]

Kinda confused about that...

Can someone who doesn't believe in Hell give me a simple list of reasons why?

In my belief system, hell is separation from God. I do believe in hell, so I can't tell you why people don't, but I think it is easier (and more convenient) to believe that there will never be punishment for sin.

 

[strangertoo]

In my belief system, hell is separation from God. I do believe in hell, so I can't tell you why people don't, but I think it is easier (and more convenient) to believe that there will never be punishment for sin.

sin brings it's own misery eventually of living half-dead in conflict oneself and shame of hurting others , besides all the destruction it spreads and it's end in otherwise unnecessary death ...there is no need of further punishment than these terrible ones , self-inflicted through wilful ignorance and denial of one's conscience, heart of Love, spirit, mind...

as for being separate from God, the spirit is God and God is ONE , not many ... the spirit of man is one with God, so sin is only possible by denial of what one is ... and it is thus reversible by cessation of denial at any time... God makes time, enough time for it to be on earth as it is in heaven, one... meaning everyone can be persuaded to eventually TRY Love by FREE CHOICE of a better way of life for all because we do not have to be stupid forever by making our lives and the lives of others miserable by sinning against ourselves and one another...

but it is frankly absurd to think cremation is punishment by flames of the dead , so why would anyone think one can punish anyone whilst dead, only the living can suffer , and ALL are freed from 'hell' [hades ,sheol] -Rev 20:13 to see if God can persuade them to try Love instad in the kingdom.... countless many thus are saved [Rev 7:9-10] who clearly are destroyed in this prior life [Matt 7:13]

they are saved by WORKS [Rev 20:13] judged at judgement day, works AFTER death , not grace, frees them from sin [Rom 6:7]

thus those judged unworthy of salvation by grace in THIS life in THIS earth because they died sinners still have another option to Love in the kingdom come and billions are thus saved by works later simply because the few God requires as priests and kings in the kingdom manage to Love in this evil earth...following Jesus the Christ [king] of Israel

 

[dollarsbill]

I believe that people who claim the bible is the word of God have rejected the word of God, so we are at a stalemate.

Belief is not proof. The Bible is the word of God. The words of Jesus the ONLY Savior:

Mark 7:10 (NASB)
10 "For Moses said, 'HONOR YOUR FATHER AND YOUR MOTHER'; and, 'HE WHO SPEAKS EVIL OF FATHER OR MOTHER, IS TO BE PUT TO DEATH';

Matthew 15:4 (NASB)
4 "For God said, 'HONOR YOUR FATHER AND MOTHER,' and, 'HE WHO SPEAKS EVIL OF FATHER OR MOTHER IS TO BE PUT TO DEATH.'

Oh my, the words of Moses are the words of God!

 

[dollarsbill]

Believing in Hell is not a requirement for residency therein. But calling Moses a child of bloodlust is a qualifier.

 

[strangertoo]

Originally Posted by strangertoo

Jesus went to 'hell' my friend...

Acts 2:31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
​

Most English translations say "hades". Not Hell. Jesus NEVER sinned. Not even once.

I never suggested that Jesus sinned, I was simply pointing out that EVERYONE goes to 'hell'[ hades/sheol] at death, even Jesus ... it's not a place of torment or punishment, but only the 'state' of being 'unseen' when dead ... Jesus called it 'sleep' ... sleep is not in any sense a punishment , nor does it involve fire or suffering in any way ... it seems unlikely that Jesus was deceiving us, far more lkely that sinners under Satan's influence mistranslated scripture , as is apparent by even reading ALL scripture and integrating it into only ONE Truth of God [or better by ceasing fom sin so that God can teach all Truth in spirit baptism as promised by Jesus -John 16:13 and as in the new covenant -Heb 8:10-11

ALL are freed from 'hell' in the new earth kingdom, freed of sin by death [as in Rom 6:7]

Rev 20:13 ...death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

rather obviously then God did not pre-judge and 'condemn' men in this life
​

None of which says all will be saved.

I never said it did, that is said elsewhere as I have pointed out many times [and you just ignore those other scriptures which thus disprove the translation you are familiar with]

What this did prove however is the point that few are saved by grace in this earth, most are saved by works in the new earth kingdom of Jesus come to all men when all are released from hades -Rev 20:13

which you again ignored ...

... after all there are still-births and very young deaths in this life , and in fact MOST men lived BEFORE Jesus came , so had no chance at all to accept him...
​

Please elaborate.

elabourate on what ? ... how could men be saved by Jesus if they died so long before he came ...? - obviously billions of men lived and died before Jesus was known to them ... so they have no chance of being saved until after the second resurrection [of the unjust] -Rev 20:13 [the first resurrection being of the few saints saved at Jesus' return in this earth]

in the new earth there are no stillbirths and young deaths , so all have a chance to be saved and many are -Rev 7:9-10

Isaiah 65:20 There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.

so being freed from sin by death is by far the commonest way as few are saved in this earth and the many are destroyed -Matt 7:13-14

BUT of that many countless many are later saved [Rev 7:9-10] ... obviously Jesus has a task for the few saved in this earth because they Love now, stop sinning so that God can forgive their previous sins ...
​

Are you really saying all who commit sins are not saved?

Quite the opposite ... but you keep making the same mistake, this discussion is about what the scripture says about what God says

but here I was pointing out that the scripture says that the many are saved by works between resurrection and judgement day , not by grace...

All are released from hell [Rev 20:13] for a reason then, and it is NOT simply to confirm some mythical prejudgement by God because they sinned in this life ... for many the new earth kingdom of Jesus and the FEW saints of this earth is the FIRST chance to know and accept Love through Jesus Christ!...

It doesn't even come close to saying that.

well in fact that is exactly what it says... why not read the whole thing and see ?

"They will be tormented day and night forever and ever". I don't know of even one English Bible that denies this statement.

Rotherham:
Revelation 20:10 and, the Adversary that had been deceiving them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where were both the wild-beast and the false-prophet; and they shall be tormented, day and night, unto the ages of ages. [NOTE: unto the END of time, no 'eternity' of time]

Young's Literal Translation:
Revelation 20:10 and the Devil, who is leading them astray, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where are the beast and the false prophet, and they shall be tormented day and night—to the ages of the ages.

 

[strangertoo]

Believing in Hell is not a requirement for residency therein. But calling Moses a child of bloodlust is a qualifier.

Not everyone dies, but all who die go to hades/sheol , 'hell' , even Jesus did ...

but hades is nothing like to popular misconception of it based not on scripture but on the fictional modern poem of Dante ... now that is bizarre , is it not ? - a modern myth replacng an ancient abstract poetic notion that the apparent continuity of souls between this world and the new earth in a different universe is due to souls being stored 'dead in hell' when in fact the soul is the physical life of a man and eds at death, is simply restored by the spirit at resurrection , there can be no physical life in physical death by DEFINITION...

 

[WJHassertt]

Reason's I don't believe in hell,
1, There is absolutely no proof of it outside of religious texts.
2, It directly contradicts the idea of a loving god,
3, It is a part of a system of thought and punishment that most civilized countries have realized does not work, and is far from humane.
4, building off of 3, If a god existed and made all of this, I would assume him to be a very intelligent being, and I doubt a being that intelligent would have to resort to violence and torture to create a successful system.
5,The ideas and beliefs about hell are often riddled with unexplained pot holes, examples are pain tolerance, masochism, sadism, pyromaniacs, and people who live in Death Valley.
6, It seems like something out of a Tolkien novel, except it's written and designed badly.