The 70 7s as a Hebrew idiom

[Interplanner]

For another approach on 490 years, we must visit the idiom 7x70 which, as you know, was used by a disciple about the number of times to forgive, Mt 18. We know from the histories and Jeremiah that the land of Israel had to 'rest' by force from God because of sin (2 Chron 36). 70 years.

An idiom like 70x7 takes the original length of something and says 'for ever' or 'infinitely.' We know this from the application of the Mt 18 parable about forgiveness; do we have the sense to render this about Dan. 9's vision? It means to say that (based on the precedent of the previous 70 year punishment) that a final, permanent punishment was arriving, in which the new redemptive community entered and stayed in God's rest.


This is the strong suggestion of both the prayer of Dan. 9 ("the LORD is righteous in [the previous desolation of Jerusalem]; yet we have not obeyed him.) and of Luke 21.

In Luke 21 the point is made that this is the time of punishment in fulfillment of all that is written. HAving read that, I'm not sure if any events afterward in Israel have any point to them. How could he say this without the finality of Dan.9's 70 7s in mind? It's what the idiom means.


So, far from being a timeline toy to tinker with, it is a Hebraism about final punishment. Then, if a person can't see that it has its fulfillment in the horrible 7th decade of Judea, I don't know what can be done. It is quite plain to see.


Sorry to be so long, but the 70 7s needed proper explaining.

--Inter

 

[Epoisses]

7th decade of Judea?!?

The book of Daniel is sealed up until the time of the end. Therefore the seventy sevens which would be 490 days or roughly a year and a half would apply to that time.

Jerusalem and the temple will be rebuilt and the 'anointed one' or 'anointed leader' will confirm a covenant with the 144,000. The bible doesn't say alot about who he is but it fits with revelation that he will be one of the two witnesses who are eventually killed in the streets of Jerusalem.

When Jesus said that there would be no more forgiveness after seventy sevens he was referencing Dan. 9. When those days are finished the 7 last plagues will be poured out which is God's wrath without a shred of mercy.

 

[Interplanner]

The math of Dan 9 does end up in the 7th decade of the 1st century. Are you unaware of what happened then?

BTW, I am making no connection between the two idioms, other than as idioms. They are both used for force. Jesus never "said there would be no forgivenss after 70 x 7". He told people to forgive 70 x 7, ie, forever, like the Father. Daniel, on the other hand, said 490 years was decreed for a complete desolation, which we now know was for the practical consequence of rejecting the Christian mission--which was that hostility with Rome festered.

--Inter

--Inter

 

[Epoisses]

So the time of the end begins in the first century - I don't think so.

Seventy times seven means 490 not forever. I think Jesus had basic math skills.

And please show where Daniel used the word year in connection with the seventy weeks because I've never read that.

 

[zeke37]

7th decade of Judea?!?

The book of Daniel is sealed up until the time of the end. Therefore the seventy sevens which would be 490 days or roughly a year and a half would apply to that time.

Jerusalem and the temple will be rebuilt

hi
"know ye not that YE are the temple of God?
Paul writes that 4 times before he says that the son of perdition (Satan)
will sit "there" and "claim to be God"

the supernatural fallen angel will pretend to be Jesus and fool the world, including most Christians completely.

no rebuilt literal temple is needed, or prophesied

and the 'anointed one' or 'anointed leader' will confirm a covenant with the 144,000.

says who? the 144000 are the only ones redeemed of mankind
his convanent is NOT with the 144000

The bible doesn't say alot about who he is but it fits with revelation that he will be one of the two witnesses who are eventually killed in the streets of Jerusalem.

huh? you think the son of perdition will be one of the two witnesses?
the son of perdition leads the political beast,
and it's the political beast that kills the two witnesses.

how does your theory make sense?

 

[Epoisses]

Many commentaries see two princes in Dan. 9. The good prince or 'anointed one' and the people of the bad prince will destroy the city and the sanctuary.

I've read those verses alot and I'm not sure if it's two or just the main 'anointed one'. How do you see the anointed prince as the antichrist? I've never heard that before.

There are many similiarities between this prince and the two witnesses. One is cut off in the midst of the week - two witnesses are killed and lie in the streets for 3 1/2 days. One is the anoited or anointed prince and the two witnesses are the anointed ones in Zechariah.

 

[Interplanner]

(BTW sometimes a good translation for the term 'works' (Gr. ergon) is 'performance.'!)

It is a very curious double or pair, isn't it? Actually the whole paragraph has unsolvables, and really good 2nd meanings. At one point it even sounds like Messiah destroys the temple and city directly, but you could allow for it to simply a coming ruler identified elsewhere. Overall the antecedent of the paragraph is Messiah.

I've read that the firm covenant might mean a harsh one, which then leads me to think it was even predicting the meanness of the Zealots or Judaizers who lead Jersusalem (badly) in the 60s.

And, how is ending sin/atoning for wickedness related to the end of sacrifices and offerings? Positively or is just a coincidence that both are mentioned?

My thought is to let Mt 24 & //s interp ("let the reader understand") have lots and lots of weight, which is that the abomination is the actions of the Zealots and Judaizers leading Jerusalem in the 60s, resulting in its destruction.

--Inter