Why do some people think Hell isn't real?

[someguy14]

Yes, I agree "someguy"...

And at that time, those who have rejected Jesus Christ's offer of forgiveness and eternal life will go to their second death. Jesus offered to pay the wages of sin, which is death for them. They rejected the offer. So they must pay themselves. The wages of sin are still death. How do you want to pay? The only acceptable payment is death.

Every tongue will confess and every knee will bow. All will be aware.

The truth is "timothew", there is no excuse. Regardless of how afraid one is to admit it, the wicked have chosen wickedness and will be faithful unto wickedness until the end, the lake of fire. The ones in God endure and remain in life eternal.

 

[someguy14]

Resurrected Lazarus was the same guy who died four days earlier. If he spent four days in hell, he didn't mention it. That's strange.

Thats doubt in God. Demanding explanation from Lazurus is doubt in Jesus words.

 

[someguy14]

Resurrected Lazarus was the same guy who died four days earlier. If he spent four days in hell, he didn't mention it. That's strange. If he spent four days in heaven, he didn't mention that either. That's very strange. I think he spent four days being dead in the tomb, which is also what Jesus said. Jesus said "Lazarus is dead", when he spoke plainly about it. Jesus did not say "Lazy is in hell and I have to drag him up," or "he is in heaven now, and I have to pull him down."

The fact is timothew, all things are possible with God. To deny Him authority and power over all, is to deny God Himself. Goodness is all of God. Does God say that some will be eternally punished, it is so. Does God speak with John in Revelation about the wickedness itself being tormented day and night for ever and ever, it is so. Trust in God and let not your humanly errored emotions interfere. God is perfect and will do as He alone decides. God have mercy upon me.

 

[someguy14]

No.

The claim is based on what the bible DOES say. For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Eternal death without God is eternal seperation from God. All the wicked that are seperated from God are in eternal pain, torment. God is life. God is peace. God is good. God is joy. Eternal seperation from God is eternal wickedness.

 

[someguy14]

the question cut both ways.
why do people think hell is real?

Jesus spoke of hell in Luke, the gospel of Luke.

In order to claim that a parable isn't true, one must deny Jesus and focus on lies. The devil is the father of lies, as we read in John 8:44.

Of course hell is thrown into the lake of fire, as is death. One claiming that hell will cease to exist must also admit that death ceases to exist.

The truth is, those that serve wickedness follow the devil and the devil is tormented day and night for ever and ever in the lake of fire, according to revelations.

 

[Senecharnix]

Phan and XP are right. When the bible was first printed in english, the word used to interpret for 2 hebrew words and 2 greek words (which is ridiculous) was hell, and as phan explained...it meant to cover or conceal. I don't know why they chose to translate it that way as there were plenty of more correct words that they could have used. From there in the last 400 years of man's foolish influence and agenda's the word now means a place of eternal torture and torment. Something that neither the ancient hebrews or early christians believed in. These were pagan beliefs that infiltrated the church. It is important to note that the majority of the church at the time of the council of Nicea was east of Jerusalem, so the various bishops and scribes grew up in the lands where these pagan beliefs originated. Just like paganism has interlocked with the catholics churches teachings throughout South America in the present day, so to did a place of punishment interweave with jewish and christian teachings well after the Torah and the writings of the early church were written and taught. In fact, though there were smatterings of it earlier, in the 4th century these perversions of church teachings became rampant throughout christendom.
Hell was a tool of fear and control. Before Simony was outlawed, the catholic church used the fires of purgatory to squeeze money from people, particularly the rich by saying that the churches prayers would get the people out of purgatory faster and into heaven. These indulgences funded the building of monastaries, cathedrals and the finery of the church. They pillaged europe to fill their coffers using these lies for centuries. Why would they ever admit they were wrong? Now, in an age of conspiracy and the da vinci code, modern christians look at the book of revelations, which is a symbolic book and says so right at the beginning of the book in verse 1 when it says he 'signified it' (which means as a sign or symbol), christians are determined to find literal meanings to the lake of fire. It is where all of the nonsense of eternal punishment, annihilation and other such doctrinal heresies come from. The church doesn't want to admit they don't know and the people who make their living out of religion will never own up to their duplicity because 'fear' is a great motivator and leads to the filling up of bank accounts.

Here is a good article on the symbolism of revelations and the lake of fire and the 2nd article actually reveals the truth about the lake of fire.

The Lake of Fire Pt1 article

Remnant Bible Studies The lake of fire Pt2 Intro Page

Both of which you will find very informative. There are also papers dealing directly with the the topic of hell on the site as well.

We don't refuse to believe in hell because we are rebellious and heretics. We don't believe in it because the bible never teaches it. If the bible taught something else, then i would believe that. But it doesn't. So I don't. It's not a small subject and the answers aren't easy to take, but if you are willing....then you could learn something amazing. It's up to you.

The Bible does not teach Hell, huh? That is weird. Each of my Bibles has over fifty references to Hell in them. They also mention damnation eleven times...

 

[Timothew]

Eternal death without God is eternal seperation from God. All the wicked that are seperated from God are in eternal pain, torment. God is life. God is peace. God is good. God is joy. Eternal seperation from God is eternal wickedness.

God is life. Separation from God means separation from life. Separation from life means death. Death means being dead, not being in torment. A person has to be alive to be in torment. Wicked people will perish in the second death and never live again. Those who put their faith in Jesus Christ receive eternal life. Those who reject Jesus Christ separate themselves from him, so they separate themselves from life and they perish.

 

[Timothew]

The fact is timothew, all things are possible with God. To deny Him authority and power over all, is to deny God Himself. Goodness is all of God. Does God say that some will be eternally punished, it is so. Does God speak with John in Revelation about the wickedness itself being tormented day and night for ever and ever, it is so. Trust in God and let not your humanly errored emotions interfere. God is perfect and will do as He alone decides. God have mercy upon me.

I never denied God the authority and power over all. I guess you misunderstood. I believe that God does have power and authority over everyone.

God says that the wicked perish. Trust in God and don't let YOUR emotions interfere. And please don't take one figurative verse in Revelation and use it to override dozens of clear verses. Revelation doesn't reveal anything that hasn't already been revealed in the rest of scripture. Revelation reveals the same truth in an apocalyptic style of writing.

I'm not letting my emotions override what the bible says. The reason that I believe the wages of sin is death is because the bible says "the wages of sin is death." Where did you get the idea that I believe this because of my emotions? What facts do you have to back up that theory?

 

[Timothew]

The Bible does not teach Hell, huh? That is weird. Each of my Bibles has over fifty references to Hell in them. They also mention damnation eleven times...

And what does it mean by "Hell"?

Sheol, Hades, Gehenna? These words have meanings and the meaning is not "A place where the wicked are tortured alive for all eternity".

 

[Senecharnix]

And what does it mean by "Hell"?

Sheol, Hades, Gehenna? These words have meanings and the meaning is not "A place where the wicked are tortured alive for all eternity".

Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell (Gehenna--a place of torment).

Luke 16:19 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day: 20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores, 21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. 22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; 23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and sees Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. 24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. 25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that you in your lifetime received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and you are tormented. 26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from there. 27 Then he said, I pray you therefore, father, that you would send him to my father's house: 28 For I have five brothers; that he may testify to them, lest they also come into this place of torment. 29 Abraham said to him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. 30 And he said, No, father Abraham: but if one went to them from the dead, they will repent. 31 And he said to him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.


Matthew 25:41 Then shall he say also to them on the left hand, Depart from me, you cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

Matthew 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

 

[Timothew]

Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell (Gehenna--a place of torment).

Luke 16:19 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day: 20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores, 21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. 22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; 23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and sees Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. 24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. 25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that you in your lifetime received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and you are tormented. 26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from there. 27 Then he said, I pray you therefore, father, that you would send him to my father's house: 28 For I have five brothers; that he may testify to them, lest they also come into this place of torment. 29 Abraham said to him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. 30 And he said, No, father Abraham: but if one went to them from the dead, they will repent. 31 And he said to him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.


Matthew 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Gehenna is not a place of torment. Jesus said to fear the one who can destroy both body and soul in Gehenna. So Gehenna is a place where the body and soul are destroyed. It's actually a valley outside of Jerusalem where they used to have human sacrifices.

Also Josephus reported "that this valley was heaped with the dead bodies of Jews following the Roman siege of Jerusalem in A.D. 69-70." (Two Views of Hell page 42)

The account in Luke is not Gehenna or Hell. In the story the rich man is sent to Hades.

And Matthew 25:46 doesn't mention Hell at all.

 

[Senecharnix]

Gehenna is not a place of torment. Jesus said to fear the one who can destroy both body and soul in Gehenna. So Gehenna is a place where the body and soul are destroyed. It's actually a valley outside of Jerusalem where they used to have human sacrifices.

Also Josephus reported "that this valley was heaped with the dead bodies of Jews following the Roman siege of Jerusalem in A.D. 69-70." (Two Views of Hell page 42)

The account in Luke is not Gehenna or Hell. In the story the rich man is sent to Hades.

And Matthew 25:46 doesn't mention Hell at all.

Gehenna was the Jewish synonym for Hell....

Hell...Hades, six ofone/half a dozen of another. Obviously, the rich man was suffering great torment wherever he is....

 

[Timothew]

Gehenna was the Jewish synonym for Hell....

Hell...Hades, six ofone/half a dozen of another. Obviously, the rich man was suffering great torment wherever he is....

Words mean things.
How was Gehenna the jewish synonym for hell when the word hell wasn't invented until after people started speaking english?

Hell is supposed to the be place people go to after the final judgment, so how does the rich man suffering before final judgment prove anything about hell?

 

[Fascinated With God]

Phan and XP are right. When the bible was first printed in english, the word used to interpret for 2 hebrew words and 2 greek words (which is ridiculous) was hell, and as phan explained...

In of itself there is nothing odd about having two words translated as one coming from one language to another. That is extremely common. But no one even does this anymore anyway, so the criticism is especially invalid.

The NIV translates Gehenna and Tartarus as hell, but Hades and Sheol are rendered as they are without translation. And that is consistent with the other most popular translations of the 20th century, while the Amplified Bible, my personal favorite, doesn't use the word hell at all.

it [hell] meant to cover or conceal.

That is halija, the Proto-Germanic root word. But the word Hel comes from Old Norse in reference to Nordic mythology. Hel is both a place and a person, much like Hades, but in this case it is a female, the daughter of Loki.
Online Etymology Dictionary

It's not a small subject and the answers aren't easy to take

What difference does it make whether or not Hell exists to our ordinary lives? It is just competing theories of interpretation. What of any real significance would change in someone's life if they changed sides?

 

[someguy14]

Hell is supposed to the be place people go to after the final judgment, so how does the rich man suffering before final judgment prove anything about hell?

If one believes in scripture, then they must believe that the lake of fire, where the devil is tormented day and night for ever and ever, exists. None is allowed to add or take away from the book, that belong unto God.

 

[LutheranMafia]

Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell (Gehenna--a place of torment).

Luke 16:19 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day: 20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores, 21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. 22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; 23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and sees Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. 24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. 25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that you in your lifetime received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and you are tormented. 26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from there. 27 Then he said, I pray you therefore, father, that you would send him to my father's house: 28 For I have five brothers; that he may testify to them, lest they also come into this place of torment. 29 Abraham said to him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. 30 And he said, No, father Abraham: but if one went to them from the dead, they will repent. 31 And he said to him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

[Matt 25:41 was deleted]

Matthew 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

How come you deleted Matt 25:41 from his list? It is by far the most important verse of the four.

And Matthew 25:46 doesn't mention Hell at all.

Verse 41 that you deleted from his list does. When the wicked are sent "into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels", what do you think eternal fire is referring to other than Hell? It is clearly a reference to Tartarus:

For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to Tartarus...
2 Peter 2:4
​

So your argument has no merit, verse 46 clearly does allude to Hell/Tartarus, along with verse 41.

 

[Timothew]

If one believes in scripture, then they must believe that the lake of fire, where the devil is tormented day and night for ever and ever, exists. None is allowed to add or take away from the book, that belong unto God.

I believe that the lake of fire is the second death, just as the book says.
Nobody is allowed to take away from the book, as you say. So you can't take the part away that says "the lake of fire is the second death". Since it is the second death, it is NOT eternal conscious torment.

 

[Timothew]

How come you deleted Matt 25:41 from his list? It is by far the most important verse of the four.

Verse 41 that you deleted from his list does. When the wicked are sent "into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels", what do you think eternal fire is referring to other than Hell? It is clearly a reference to Tartarus:

For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to Tartarus...
2 Peter 2:4
​

So your argument has no merit, verse 46 clearly does allude to Hell/Tartarus, along with verse 41.

I didn't see it. Oh well. Eternal fire consumes what it put into it. It is strange to think of a fire that doesn't burn up what is burnt up in it, but tortures it instead. Peter says that the angels are chained in tartarus, so eternal fire doesn't refer to Tartartus.

 

[Timothew]

How come you deleted Matt 25:41 from his list? It is by far the most important verse of the four.

Verse 41 that you deleted from his list does. When the wicked are sent "into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels", what do you think eternal fire is referring to other than Hell? It is clearly a reference to Tartarus:

For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to Tartarus...
2 Peter 2:4
​

So your argument has no merit, verse 46 clearly does allude to Hell/Tartarus, along with verse 41.

Oh, I see now. He editted his post to add that verse AFTER I quoted and responded to him. I didn't delete the verse, He added it late. There was no way I could have known that he would add a verse after I responded.
It is a little disingenuous to say that my argument has no merit because I didn't foresee him adding a verse to his argument.

Please stop assuming that I am up to something sinister.

 

[Stealth001]

Let's take a close look at the "lake of fire".

First, being tormented "for ever and ever" is better translated "for ages and ages". The Greek term "aionios" means "age". It doesn't necessarily have the connotation of "forever" in the sense of "unending". Not to mention, we have to give room for hyperbole in Eastern writings such as the Bible. Hyperbole is often used by the prophets and Jesus. We use it today too. For example, one might say, "I stood in line for ever and ever at the grocery store." The meaning is that one stood in line for a long and undesirable period of time. The person didn't literally stand in line "forever".

Second, the "lake of fire" is actually called "the lake of fire and brimstone". That's important. Because "brimstone" is defined as being:

2303 // yeion // theion // thi'-on //

probably of 2304 (in its original sense of flashing); TDNT - 3:122,*; n n

AV - brimstone 7; 7

1) brimstone
1a) divine incense, because burning brimstone was regarded as having
power to purify, and to ward off disease

​

Thus, we see that "brimstone" is a "divine incense" that "purifies". Thus when we read the phrase "lake of fire and brimstone" we should read "lake of judgment and purification".

The phrase "second death" is very important. Remember, believers die through faith... we are crucified with Christ. We are dead to sin and the world. We experienced a "death" the moment we repented. The term "second death" indicates a state wherein those who died without the Lord are brought to a second stage of death... a death to self... and absolute surrender to God. In the end the result will be...

Philippians 2:9-11
English Standard Version (ESV)
9 Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name, 10 so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.


​

Every means every. No exceptions. Every soul that has ever lived will one day bow in reverence and worship before Jesus... to the Father's glory.

God doesn't run an eternal Aushwitz wherein the wicked are tortured forever or vaporized. God's fire is a purifying, refining fire. The wicked are brought to absolute surrender in it's flames. The end result being their correction, surrender, and worship. And all of this is made possible through the cross.

1 John 2:2
He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world. (ESV)
​

Jesus gives us an example of this corrective judgment:

Luke 12:46-48
King James Version (KJV)
46 The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.
47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.
48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.


​

Punishment is just, fearsome, and corrective in nature. Notice, if all were vaporized, or if all burned forever, all would suffer the same fate equally. However, there is greater and lesser punishment in eternity. This DEMANDS that punishment must cease at some point else the entire point Jesus makes is null and void. No one can receive greater or lesser punishment unless punishment comes to an end, correction being the end result.

The cross was the Father's grand design to save ALL of mankind. Now... that's "good news". Tradition wants to tell us that only a select few will be saved... the vast majority of mankind cast into Hell to burn forever or be vaporized. How is that "good news"??? And interestingly enough... EVERYONE who believes this tradition assumes that they are a part of that select few. How convenient! LOL