Scientific Noah's flood.

[CabVet]

What you call a "learning experence" we call allowing others to do your thinking for you. You do howard stern proud.

So, science says: go out to nature, look at the evidence and make conclusions about it, and that, according to you, is not a learning experience, but "allowing others to do your thinking for you". And religion says: go to church, listen to what the priest says, follow the Bible, and that is not "allowing others to do your thinking for you"? Haha, great logic.

 

[RickG]

What you call a "learning experence" we call allowing others to do your thinking for you. You do howard stern proud.

Oh really, please explain how others do my thinking for me.

Also, please explain how you, one who thinks the stratigraphy of the Grand Canyon was laid down by Noah's Flood, has a better understanding of Geology than everyone else, especially those with academic credentials.

Care to compare credentials?

 

[Jamin4422]

And religion says: go to church, listen to what the priest says, follow the Bible, and that is not "allowing others to do your thinking for you"? Haha, great logic.

Again you need to read what the Bible says: "[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you."[/FONT]

[FONT=arial, sans-serif]11 None of them shall[/FONT] teach his neighbor[FONT=arial, sans-serif], and none [/FONT]his brother, saying, 'Know the Lord,' for all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them.

[FONT=arial,sans-serif]
[/FONT]​

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]John 16:13[/FONT][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif] But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth

[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]1 John 2:27[/FONT][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif] As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit--just as it has taught you, remain in him.

[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][/FONT]

 

[juvenissun]

Fossils found in the Hermit Shale consist of ferns, conifers and other plants, as well as some fossilized tracks of reptiles and amphibians which indicates a river delta area. Just above that layer is the Coconino formation, a layer of sandstone showing the cross bedding of wind blown sand dunes. Fossils there show invertebrate tracks and burrows. Both formations are of terrestrial origin. The two layers above that are the Toroweap and Kaibab Limestone formations which contain marine fossils. There is no way that sequence could happen from any kind of flood, not to mention that the very youngest layers are 250 million years old.

Also, please explain how limestone is formed from a flood.

So the Hermit and the Coconino are not made by the global flood. So what? There are some other marine layers that could be made by the global flood.

The lime deposited in a global flood by the same way as it was deposited in any other time. Why not? To some degree, lime deposit is more likely to happen in a global flood environment than a normal marine environment.

 

[RickG]

So the Hermit and the Coconino are not made by the global flood. So what? There are some other marine layers that could be made by the global flood.

The lime deposited in a global flood by the same way as it was deposited in any other time. Why not? To some degree, lime deposit is more likely to happen in a global flood environment than a normal marine environment.

Do you have any idea what the limestone layers in the Grand Canyon are composed of?

 

[juvenissun]

Do you have any idea what the limestone layers in the Grand Canyon are composed of?

No. But it could be inorganic lime, coral, or some other fossils.

So what?

 

[HitchSlap]

Again you need to read what the Bible says: "[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you."[/FONT]

[FONT=arial, sans-serif]11 None of them shall[/FONT] teach his neighbor[FONT=arial, sans-serif], and none [/FONT]his brother, saying, 'Know the Lord,' for all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them.

[FONT=arial,sans-serif]
[/FONT]​

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]John 16:13[/FONT][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif] But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth

[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]1 John 2:27[/FONT][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif] As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit--just as it has taught you, remain in him.

[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][/FONT]

So you admit you get your information from ghosts?*






*Backs out of room slowly...

 

[Jamin4422]

So you admit you get your information from ghosts?

Really you know that little about the KJV. AV can you answer this question for me. Tks

 

[HitchSlap]

Really you know that little about the KJV. AV can you answer this question for me. Tks

Maybe you could ask the ghost why your reading comprehension fails?

 

[RickG]

No. But it could be inorganic lime, coral, or some other fossils.

So what?

All lime/limestone is inorganic, but that formed in marine environments is from the accumulation of countless trillions of "Foraminifera" (forams) which are for the most part microscopic but have shells. They accurate as they die. You don't get limestone layers hundreds and/or thousands of feet thick over the span of a year. Even if all of the forams in all the oceans were to suddenly die and accumulate that would only be an inch or less accumulation. Limestone take layers take from thousands to millions of years to accumulate. They also have to be buried and compressed.

You are also ignoring the age of each stratigraphic layer of the Grand Canyon. Understanding that the flood was not global is a better approach to understanding than making stuff up. Saying the Grand Canyon and other like formations was formed by Noah's flood is making stuff up.

 

[Jamin4422]

Also, please explain how you, one who thinks the stratigraphy of the Grand Canyon was laid down by Noah's Flood, has a better understanding of Geology than everyone else, especially those with academic credentials.

I am not a YEC, I am a GAP.

Care to compare credentials?

Credentials in what area? Just what area is it that your are an expert of? Eldredge is an expert, yet people say he is crazy and he does not know what he is talking about. Really what I want to know is why the experts do not agree. Why do they disagree with each other so much. Even fellow Harvard professors do not agree on evolutionary theory. Clearly if your an expert you should be able to solve all of the worlds problems.

 

[CabVet]

Really what I want to know is why the experts do not agree. Why do they disagree with each other so much. Even fellow Harvard professors do not agree on evolutionary theory.

They disagree on the details, and small ones at that. But all evolutionary biologists agree that evolution did happen. I am sure your interpretations of the Bible are not the same as AV's, which are not the same as dad's, but that is not a reason for me to say that your disagreements prove that God does not exist. This is essentially what all creationists do, they see evolutionary biologists debating about small details and try to use that as evidence that evolution is false.

 

[Jamin4422]

Maybe you could ask the ghost why your reading comprehension fails?

Actually I test very good for reading comprehension. My college admit test scores are high. My IQ is high. What is your point, where are you going with this? If you do not think I am qualified to answer your questions then do not ask any questions. You just do not like the answers that I give you.

 

[Jamin4422]

They disagree on the details, and small ones at that.

Ok, the problem I have with experts is they are far to often worthless. They can not solve real problems in the real world. When people hire me to solve their problem they expect me to solve it. If I do not solve their problem then I do not get paid. The so called experts at the university far to often do not solve the problem, yet they still want paid.

Let me give you an example. Lets say the bath tub is leaking up stairs and the ceiling is on the dining room table. If I contract to do the job then I got to do the job before I get paid. I got to fix the leak, fix the ceiling and clean up the mess and make it look like it was never broken and no one was ever there to make a repair.

So if you can function in the real world with the rest of us fine. If not then it does not really matter if your an expert if you can not get the job done. Far to often the so called experts can not get the job done.

 

[CabVet]

Ok, the problem I have with experts is they are far to often worthless. They can not solve real problems in the real world. When people hire me to solve their problem they expect me to solve it. If I do not solve their problem then I do not get paid. The so called experts at the university far to often do not solve the problem, yet they still want paid.

Let me give you an example. Lets say the bath tub is leaking up stairs and the ceiling is on the dining room table. If I contract to do the job then I got to do the job before I get paid. I got to fix the leak, fix the ceiling and clean up the mess and make it look like it was never broken and no one was ever there to make a repair.

So if you can function in the real world with the rest of us fine. If not then it does not really matter if your an expert if you can not get the job done. Far to often the so called experts can not get the job done.

And what does any of that have to do with what I said?

 

[Jamin4422]

And what does any of that have to do with what I said?

What did you say and what do you want?

 

[RickG]

I am not a YEC, I am a GAP.

Credentials in what area?

The Physical Earth Sciences, Master of Science, Earth Science, Univ. of Memphis, 1977.

Just what area is it that your are an expert of?

I don't claim to be an expert in anything, but I am knowledgable and academically trained in the physical sciences and have 30 plus years as a chemist and process control engineer.

Eldredge is an expert, yet people say he is crazy and he does not know what he is talking about.

Why do you always twist thing around from what I actually say? I said that Eldredge is being quote mined. He does not think a fact, theory and hypothesis is one in the same. He knows the difference. What I said is that if he really believed that that he would be nuts. So get it straight, he doesn't believe they are one in the same, he is not nuts.

Really what I want to know is why the experts do not agree. Why do they disagree with each other so much. Even fellow Harvard professors do not agree on evolutionary theory

You keep saying they disagree but you can't cite any specific examples with out "quote mining" someone. There is not this huge disagreement among scientists about evolution. There are different opinions of some of the details. That is not disagreement over the theory as a whole.

Essentially what you are doing is citing Darwin's gradualism and comparing it with Eldredge and Gould's Punctuated Equilibrium and claiming scientists can't agree on ToE. Surely you can see the problem with that comparison.

Clearly if your an expert you should be able to solve all of the worlds problems.

I do not claim to be an expert in anything. What I do claim though is that I have a considerably better understanding of geology and the physical earth sciences than you. There's a huge difference between a formal education in the area, putting it into practice by testing and experiencing the results, as opposed to reading in the creationists literature what one wants to believe. You can't accept the physical laws of nature when they suit you and ignore them when they don't. They always remain the same whether it suits you or not.

 

[juvenissun]

All lime/limestone is inorganic, but that formed in marine environments is from the accumulation of countless trillions of "Foraminifera" (forams) which are for the most part microscopic but have shells. They accurate as they die. You don't get limestone layers hundreds and/or thousands of feet thick over the span of a year. Even if all of the forams in all the oceans were to suddenly die and accumulate that would only be an inch or less accumulation. Limestone take layers take from thousands to millions of years to accumulate. They also have to be buried and compressed.

You are also ignoring the age of each stratigraphic layer of the Grand Canyon. Understanding that the flood was not global is a better approach to understanding than making stuff up. Saying the Grand Canyon and other like formations was formed by Noah's flood is making stuff up.

The limestone layers (any one) in the Grand Canyon are NOT all made of forams. In fact, if such layer were there, the forams would be at the most 50% or less. And none of such limestone layers are hundreds of feet in thickness. A limestone layer could take long time to deposit. But (I think this is what you do not understand), it could also take a very short period of time, not only to deposit, but to lithify. Limestone made of abundant forams is rare. We do not need to use it as a product of the global flood.

I do not need to use Grand Canyon layers as example for the Global Flood. YOU are the one who brought it up. Even every layers in the Grand Canyon were not deposited at the time of the global flood, there still are many other layers of rocks. Any one of those could be deposited by the global flood.

 

[serge546]

Ok, the problem I have with experts is they are far to often worthless. They can not solve real problems in the real world. When people hire me to solve their problem they expect me to solve it. If I do not solve their problem then I do not get paid. The so called experts at the university far to often do not solve the problem, yet they still want paid.

Let me give you an example. Lets say the bath tub is leaking up stairs and the ceiling is on the dining room table. If I contract to do the job then I got to do the job before I get paid. I got to fix the leak, fix the ceiling and clean up the mess and make it look like it was never broken and no one was ever there to make a repair.

So if you can function in the real world with the rest of us fine. If not then it does not really matter if your an expert if you can not get the job done. Far to often the so called experts can not get the job done.

So your big problem with evolution boils down to envy that evolutionists work with their heads and you have to work with your hands? Pitiful excuse, especially for a Christian.

Well, how about this: I'm a hardcore evolutionist, there is no doubt about that. What am I doing that actually accomplishes something, you ask?

Well my thesis involves isolating and identifying bacteria that can be potentially used to degrade polychlorinated biphenyls (PCBs), a characteristic that evolved, by the way.

Why is this important? Well, there is a reservoir near where I live that is extremely contaminated with the stuff. Eventhough some PCBs are known to be carcinogenic and teratogenic, people continue to swim and eat fish from there. My hopes are that my research helps clean up the reservoir.

Is that enough contribution from an evolutionist for your high horse or should start fixing toilets on the side?

 

[RickG]

The limestone layers (any one) in the Grand Canyon are NOT all made of forams. In fact, if such layer were there, the forams would be at the most 50% or less.

I have already mentioned that there are several types of deposition in the limestone formation process, this includes both chemical precipitates and fossils.

And none of such limestone layers are hundreds of feet in thickness.

Note the scale in the link below. (source: USGS)

Geology of National Parks

A limestone layer could take long time to deposit. But (I think this is what you do not understand), it could also take a very short period of time, not only to deposit, but to lithify. Limestone made of abundant forams is rare. We do not need to use it as a product of the global flood.

Limestone layers of that thickness take much more than the duration of Noah's flood.