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Why do some people think Hell isn't real?

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Imagican

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Let me offer this if I haven't already.

I have experienced MUCH in life. Pain, suffering, depression, persecution, having false witness used against me, just about everything negative that exists short of DEATH itself, I feel I have been through it, (and NO, I DO NOT believe that I am an EXCEPTION here or the "Lone Ranger". I KNOW others have been there as well and that is why I am offering this):

While suffering any one of these situations, from the time it started until the time it was OVER often felt like ETERNITY. Hard to LOOK BACK and remember because I believe that MIND doesn't WANT to hold on to such 'thoughts'. But at the TIME, I can REMEMBER numerous situations that SEEMED to last an ETERNITY. For it was NOT KNOWN when it began, when it would END. Not KNOWING the 'ending' made it SEEM like FOREVER.

I BELIEVE that much of what is offered concerning the TORMENT that some will endure is in THIS context. For the simple FACT that the Bible says that ONE DAY, Satan himself will be DESTROYED, it is apparent that NO ONE is any MORE deserving of eternal punishment than Satan. So when HE IS DESTROYED, I believe that ALL in HELL will be destroyed as well.

And put this into perspective: NO ONE KNOWS THE DATE or THE TIME OF THIS EVENT. So those suffering UNTIL Satan is destroyed could be suffering for THOUSANDS of years. What SEEMS like ETERNITY. Especially considering that they DO NOT KNOW if or WHEN it is going to END.

But in order for men to suffer ETERNITY literally, they would have to receive ETERNAL LIFE, (or eternal death if you choose to see it as such, but even DEATH will one day be SWALLOWED UP. BE NO MORE).

So I THINK that the warnings are as much symbolic as literal. While it will NOT be an ETERNAL suffering, it will certainly SEEM LIKE IT for someone suffering for a THOUSAND YEARS. And the 'separation' is most CERTAINLY to be ETERNAL. That means that once one is judged according to DEATH, they will, at some point, be ETERNALLY SEPARATED from the LOVE OF GOD.

(Hell), hmmmmm................... I THINK I have been given visions of 'hell' myself. And if those visions were TRUTHFUL visions, then it most CERTAINLY EXISTS. And it is NOT Dante's version. It is actually much WORSE. For it is a continual realization of ALL the things we have done to HURT OTHERS and not only a MEMORY of the events, but a realization and recognition of the SUFFERING we caused. And with NO ABILITY to lie to ourselves or others. That means THE TRUTH. And what is MORE 'painful' in this vision, is the AMOUNT of sorrow we brought upon our MAKER. For once the TRUTH is manifest in one's heart, there is NO DENYING any longer. Doesn't matter if you BELIEVED or DISBELIEVED, once the TRUTH is manifest, there is NO MORE LYING. And NO ONE to even LIE TO. Just YOU and your 'conscience' in a STATE OF DARKNESS.....................................................................

Blessings,

MEC
 
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Imagican

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He-man, you are more relentless than a broken record, endlessly repeating the same tired 100+ year old quotes from Dr. Smith. It speaks volumes about you that you are unable to articulate your thoughts in your own words. Do you do the same thing in person? How much social interaction do you get most days? Any?

Agreed.

Blessings,

MEC
 
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Imagican

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Or be selective about which rules to follow and which ones to ignore:

  • Do not repetitively post similar or identical posts or threads.

Pulled 'the rule thing' on ME the other day. Right after telling someone else to 'go jump in a lake'.

Blessings,

MEC
 
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Senecharnix

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Let me offer this if I haven't already.

I have experienced MUCH in life. Pain, suffering, depression, persecution, having false witness used against me, just about everything negative that exists short of DEATH itself, I feel I have been through it, (and NO, I DO NOT believe that I am an EXCEPTION here or the "Lone Ranger". I KNOW others have been there as well and that is why I am offering this):

While suffering any one of these situations, from the time it started until the time it was OVER often felt like ETERNITY. Hard to LOOK BACK and remember because I believe that MIND doesn't WANT to hold on to such 'thoughts'. But at the TIME, I can REMEMBER numerous situations that SEEMED to last an ETERNITY. For it was NOT KNOWN when it began, when it would END. Not KNOWING the 'ending' made it SEEM like FOREVER.

I BELIEVE that much of what is offered concerning the TORMENT that some will endure is in THIS context. For the simple FACT that the Bible says that ONE DAY, Satan himself will be DESTROYED, it is apparent that NO ONE is any MORE deserving of eternal punishment than Satan. So when HE IS DESTROYED, I believe that ALL in HELL will be destroyed as well.

And put this into perspective: NO ONE KNOWS THE DATE or THE TIME OF THIS EVENT. So those suffering UNTIL Satan is destroyed could be suffering for THOUSANDS of years. What SEEMS like ETERNITY. Especially considering that they DO NOT KNOW if or WHEN it is going to END.

But in order for men to suffer ETERNITY literally, they would have to receive ETERNAL LIFE, (or eternal death if you choose to see it as such, but even DEATH will one day be SWALLOWED UP. BE NO MORE).

So I THINK that the warnings are as much symbolic as literal. While it will NOT be an ETERNAL suffering, it will certainly SEEM LIKE IT for someone suffering for a THOUSAND YEARS. And the 'separation' is most CERTAINLY to be ETERNAL. That means that once one is judged according to DEATH, they will, at some point, be ETERNALLY SEPARATED from the LOVE OF GOD.

(Hell), hmmmmm................... I THINK I have been given visions of 'hell' myself. And if those visions were TRUTHFUL visions, then it most CERTAINLY EXISTS. And it is NOT Dante's version. It is actually much WORSE. For it is a continual realization of ALL the things we have done to HURT OTHERS and not only a MEMORY of the events, but a realization and recognition of the SUFFERING we caused. And with NO ABILITY to lie to ourselves or others. That means THE TRUTH. And what is MORE 'painful' in this vision, is the AMOUNT of sorrow we brought upon our MAKER. For once the TRUTH is manifest in one's heart, there is NO DENYING any longer. Doesn't matter if you BELIEVED or DISBELIEVED, once the TRUTH is manifest, there is NO MORE LYING. And NO ONE to even LIE TO. Just YOU and your 'conscience' in a STATE OF DARKNESS.....................................................................

Blessings,

MEC


Dante's version of Hell is a fairytale compared to the reality of it....
 
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Imagican

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Do you know what vague Ambiguity means?
Ambiguity of information, in words, pictures, or other media, is the ability to express more than one interpretation. It is generally contrasted with vagueness, in that specific and distinct interpretations are permitted (although some may not be immediately apparent), whereas with information that is vague it is difficult to form any interpretation at the desired level of specificity. Wikipedia®


And Yes, the grave is a very lonely place!

HELL. This is the word generally and unfortunately used by our translators to render the Hebrew Sheol שאול, or:"αιδης, and once θανατος, 2 Sam. xxii. 6: Inferi or Inferna, or sometimes Mors).

We say unfortunately, because although, as St. Augustine truly asserts, Sheol,with its equivalents Inferi and Hades, are never used in a good sense (De Gen. ad Lit. xii. 33), yet the English word Hell is mixed up with numberless associations entirely foreign to the minds of the ancient Hebrews.

It would perhaps have been better to retain the Hebrew word Sheol, or else render it always by " the grave " or " the pit."

Ewald accepts Luther's word Holle; even Unterwelt, which is suggested by De Wette, involves conceptions too human for the purpose.
DR. WILLIAM SMITH'S DICTIONARY OF THE BIBLE; Page 1038

And IF it were MERELY a matter of the BIBLE being the ONLY influence in understanding, then what you have offered would be MORE correct. But there is MORE that is able to influence than The Bible ITSELF. There is the Holy Spirit as well.

And that the BABIES you have referred to: The Hebrews were the ONLY inspiration or understanding offered, then we would surely be JUST as infantile as they WERE.

Paul was confronted with similar 'childishness' from the Corinthians. After he had visited them and WITNESSED the Holy Spirit being present among them, a short time after leaving them he received messages that they were REVERTING BACK into BABIES.

So I would offer that the Hebrews would be a SAD example indeed to try and find UNDERSTANDING of Christ THROUGH. They were BARELY able to even HOLD ON to what they KNEW of God, much less any relevant concepts that there may have been ATTEMPTS to deliver to them. While maybe a FEW have ALWAYS been able to SEE what God has offered, in GENERAL, the PEOPLE were as BLIND AS BATS.

God has ALWAYS ONLY offered what could be HANDLED. And in the past, it is OBVIOUS that this was VERY LIMITED. It took TIME for most of the present concepts that are understandable to TAKE PLACE in understanding. And it was REVEALED in STEPS. Not EVERYTHING at ONE TIME.

Blessings,

MEC
 
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DrBubbaLove

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Pulled 'the rule thing' on ME the other day. Right after telling someone else to 'go jump in a lake'.

Blessings,

MEC
Yes, it is telling that someone would lecture others about some rules while freely breaking others themselves.
 
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saved3686

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I don't know if you have red the book "Visions of Heaven and Hell" by John Bunyan a 17th century English preacher. Even if it's 250 years old it reveals volumes about the torments of hell. If you havn't red it it's a must read.
I've pasted a short part of it below. If this is something you have red already please ígnore this post. It's just in case some are not familiar with this. Thank you all.
Preferably, go the spiritlessons.com/Documents/John_Bunyan_Hell/index.htm to read it all.
**********​
We had not gone much farther before we saw a wretched soul lying on a bed of burning steel, almost choked with brimstone. He cried out with such dreadful anguish and desperation, that I asked my conductor to wait. I heard him speak as follows:

"Ah, miserable wretch! Undone forever, forever! Oh, this killing word, 'forever!' Will not a million years be long enough to bear that pain, which if I could avoid it, I would not endure for even one moment for the sake of being offered one million worlds? No, no my misery never will have an end; after millions of years it will still be for ever. Oh, what a helpless and hopeless condition I am in! It is this 'forever' that is the hell of hell! O cursed wretch! Cursed to all eternity! How willfully have I undone myself! Oh, what stupendous folly am I guilty of, to choose sin’s short and momentary pleasure at the dear price of everlasting pain! How often I was told it would be so! How often I was encouraged to leave those paths of sin that brought me to the chambers of eternal death! But I, like a dumb animal, would not listen to those pleadings. Now it is too late to change it, for my eternal state is fixed for ever. Why was I made a person, that I would choose this fate? Why was I made with an immortal soul, and yet should take so little care of it? Oh how my own neglect stings me to death, and yet I know I cannot die! I live a dying life, worse than ten thousand deaths; and yet I once could have changed all this, but did not! Oh, that is the gnawing worm that never dies! I might once have been happy, salvation was offered to me and I refused it. Had salvation been offered to me only once, it would have been an unforgivable folly to refuse it. But salvation was offered me a thousand times, and yet (wretch that I was) I still as often refused it. O cursed sin, that with deluding pleasures leads mankind to eternal ruin! God often called, but I as often refused; He stretched His hand out, but I would not mind it. How often have I ignored His counsel! How often have I refused His reproof! But now the scene is changed, the case is altered. Now He laughs at my calamity, and mocks at the destruction which is come upon me. He would have helped me once, but I would not accept His help. Therefore those eternal miseries I am condemned to undergo are but the just reward of my own doing."

I could not hear this sorrowful lamentation without thinking about the wonderful grace that God had shown to me, eternal praises to His holy name! For my heart told me that I had deserved eternal judgment as much as that sad wretch, but that God's grace alone had made us different. O how unsearchable are His counsels! Who can fathom His divine decree?

After these thoughts I spoke to the sorrowful complainer, and told him I had heard his woeful complaints. I saw that his misery was great, and his loss irreparable, and told him I would willingly hear more about it if this might possibly help lessen his sufferings."

"No, not at all; my pains cannot be relieved even for one small moment. But by your question I understand that you are a stranger here; and may you ever be a stranger! Ah, had I but the least hope still remaining, how I would kneel and cry and pray for ever to be redeemed from this hell! But it is all in vain, I am lost forever. But so that you will be warned about ending up here, I will tell you what the damned suffer."
 
Chapter 8: A Lost Soul Speaks
"Our miseries in this infernal dungeon are of two kinds: what we have lost, and what we suffer. I will first speak about what we have lost.

1. In this sad dark place of misery and sorrow, we have lost the presence of the ever blessed God. This is what makes this dungeon hell. Though we had lost a thousand worlds, it would not be as important as this one greatest loss. Could we but see the least glimpse of His favor here, we might be happy; but have lost it to our everlasting woe.

2. Here we have also lost the company of saints and angels, and instead have nothing but tormenting devils.

3. Here we have lost heaven, too, the center of blessedness. There is a deep gulf between us and heaven, so that we are shut out from it forever. Those everlasting gates that let the redeemed into heaven are now for ever shut against us.

4. To make our wretchedness far worse, we have lost the hope of ever obtaining a better condition. This makes us truly hopeless. Well may our hearts now break, since we are both without hope and help. This is what we have lost; and if we think of these things, it is enough to tear and gnaw upon our miserable souls forever. Yet, oh, that this were all that our torments were!
But we are also tormented by suffering and pain, as I will try to explain to you now.

1. First, we undergo a variety of torments. We are tormented here a thousand, no, ten thousand different ways. Those that suffer upon the earth seldom have more than one affliction at a time. But if they had ulcers, gallstones, headaches, and fever all at the same time, would they not think they were very miserable? Yet all those together are but like the biting of a flea compared to those intolerable, sharp pains that we endure. Here we have all the sufferings of hell. Here is an unquenchable fire which burns us; a lake of burning brimstone that ever chokes us; and eternal chains that bind us. Here there is utter darkness to frighten us, and a worm of conscience that gnaws upon us everlastingly. Any one of these is worse to bear than all the torments that mankind ever felt on earth!

2. But our torments here are not only various, but are also complete. They afflict every part of the body, and torment all the powers of the soul. This makes what we suffer the worst of tortures. In those sicknesses which men have on earth, though some members of their bodies will suffer, yet other parts will have no pain. Here it is different; every member of the soul and body suffers at the same time.

"Our eyes are tormented here with the sight of devils who appear in all the horrible shapes and black appearances that sin can give them. Our ears are continually tormented with the loud continual yelling of the damned. Our nostrils are smothered with sulfurous flames; our tongues with burning blisters; and the whole body is rolled in flames of liquid fire. All the powers and faculties of our souls are also tormented here. The imagination suffers with the thoughts of our present pain and the memory of the heaven we have lost. Our minds are tormented as we remember how foolishly we spent our precious time on earth. Our understanding is tormented with the thoughts of our past pleasures, present pains, and future sorrows, which are to last forever. And our consciences are tormented with a continual gnawing worm.

3. Another thing that makes our misery so awful is the sharpness of our torments. The fire that burns us is so violent that all the water in the sea can never quench it. The pains we suffer here are so extreme that it is impossible for anyone to know them except the damned.

4. Another part of our misery is the ceaselessness of our torments. As various, as complete, and as extremely violent as they are, they are also continual. We have no rest from them. If there were any relaxation, it might be some relief. But there is no easing of our torments, and what we suffer now we must suffer forever.

5. The society or company we have here is another part of our misery. Tormenting devils and tormented souls are all our company. Dreadful shrieks, howlings, and fearful cursing are our continual conversation because of the fierceness of our pain.

6. The place we are in also increases our sufferings. It is the completion of all misery, a prison, a dungeon, a bottomless pit, a lake of brimstone, a furnace of fire that burns to eternity, the blackness of darkness for ever; and lastly, hell itself. Such a wretched place as this can only increase our wretchedness.

7. The cruelty of our tormentors is another thing that adds to our sufferings. Our tormentors are devils in whom there is no pity. While they are tormented themselves, they still take pleasure in tormenting us.

8. All those sufferings that I have recounted are very grievous. But that which makes them the most grievous is that they shall always be forever. All of our intolerable sufferings shall last to all eternity! ‘Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire,’ is what continually sounds in my ears. Oh, that I could reverse that fatal sentence! Oh, if there was but a bare possibility of salvation! This is the miserable situation we are in, and shall be in forever."
 
Chapter 9: Further Conversations
This wretched soul had scarcely finished what he was saying when he was tormented again by a hellish demon, who told him to stop complaining. The demon said, "don't you know you have deserved it all? How often were you told of this before, but would not believe it? You laughed at those who warned you about hell. You were even so presumptuous as to dare Almighty justice to destroy you! How often you called on God to damn you. Do you complain that you are answered according to your wishes? What an unreasonable thing! You know that you had salvation offered you, and you refused it. How can you now complain of being damned? I have more reason to complain, for you had a long time in which repentance was offered you; but I was cast into hell as soon as I had sinned. If I had been offered salvation, I would never have rejected it as you did. Who do you think should pity you now, with all that heaven had offered to you?"

This made the wretch cry out, "Oh, do not continue to torment me; I know that I chose destruction. Oh, that I could forget it! These thoughts are my greatest torture. I chose to be damned, and therefore justly am so."
Then turning to the demon that tortured him he said, "But I also came here through your temptations, you cursed devil. You were the one that had tempted me to do all of my sins; and now you would reproach me? You say you never had a Savior offered to you; but you should also remember that you never had a tempter such as you have always been to me."

To this the devil scornfully replied, "It was my business to lead you here! You had often been warned of this by your preacher. You were plainly told that we sought your ruin, and go about continually like roaring lions, seeking whom we could devour. I was often afraid you that would believe them, as several other souls did, to our great disappointment. But you were willing to do what we wanted; and since you have done our work it is but reasonable that we should pay you wages." Then the fiend tormented him again and caused him to roar out so horribly that I could no longer stay to hear him, so I passed on.
Passing a little further we saw a multitude of damned souls together, gnashing their teeth with extreme rage and pain, while the tormenting fiends with hellish fury poured liquid fire and brimstone continually upon them. In the meantime, they were cursing God and those about them, and were blaspheming in a tremendous manner. I could not help but ask of one demon that so tormented them, who were these souls that he tormented so cruelly?

Said he, "These wretches well deserve their punishment. They tried to teach others the right road to heaven, while they were so in love with hell that they came here. These are those souls that have been our great helpers upon the earth, and therefore they deserve our special attention in hell. We use our full diligence to give every one their utmost share of torments, for they not only have their own sins to answer for, but also all the sins of those whom they led astray both by their doctrine and example."

"Since they have been such great helpers for you, I would think that in gratitude you would treat them a little more kindly."

To this the impudent friend answered me in a scoffing manner, "They that expect gratitude among devils will find themselves mistaken. Gratitude is a virtue, but we hate all virtue. Besides, we hate all mankind, and were it in our power not one of them should be happy. It is true we do not tell them so upon earth, because there it is our business to flatter and deceive them. But when we have them here where they cannot escape, we soon convince them of their foolishness in serving us."

From this I could only think about what infinite grace it is that any poor sinners are brought to heaven, considering how many traps are laid by the enemy to ensnare them by the way. Therefore it is a ministry well worthy of the blessed Son of God to save His people from their sins, and to deliver them from the wrath to come. But it is also folly and madness in men to refuse the offers of His grace, and to choose to side with the destroyer.
 
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DrBubbaLove

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To the OPs point, people do not believe in eternal torment because they wrongly believe that holding such a belief makes it impossible to see God as Merciful, Just and Loving.
 
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Timothew

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DrBubbaLove said:
To the OPs point, people do not believe in eternal torment because they wrongly believe that holding such a belief makes it impossible to see God as Merciful, Just and Loving.

You said it true DrBubbaLove, thats the real reason for sure.

No Norah,
That is not the reason that I don't believe in eternal torture in Hell. A plain reading of scripture shows that the result of sin is death, not eternal torture in hell. Romans 6:23 "For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord."

Those who believe in Jesus Christ receive eternal life and those who do not believe do not receive eternal life. Those who reject Jesus Christ will perish and those who do not reject Jesus Christ will not perish.
John 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life."

This is what the Scriptures say, and I do not believe in eternal torture in hell because I believe what the scriptures say.
 
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gasman64

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No Norah,
That is not the reason that I don't believe in eternal torture in Hell. A plain reading of scripture shows that the result of sin is death, not eternal torture in hell. Romans 6:23 "For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord."

Those who believe in Jesus Christ receive eternal life and those who do not believe do not receive eternal life. Those who reject Jesus Christ will perish and those who do not reject Jesus Christ will not perish.
John 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life."

This is what the Scriptures say, and I do not believe in eternal torture in hell because I believe what the scriptures say.


Give it up Tim. For some people it's not enough to just shoot the horse. They want to submit it to torture after death by continuously flogging it after it has died. Just to teach it an extra lesson that death couldn't teach it in the first place. So many people claim to read and understand the bible, but this thread proves otherwise. They want to kill the horse, flog the horse and then turn it into pet food. Now that's efficient. We will just call the flogging pre-tenderising so Fido and Mittens get a better texture when they eat the minced Flicka from their plastic bowls on the back stoop. :cool:
 
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SilenceInMotion

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No Norah,
A plain reading of scripture shows that the result of sin is death, not eternal torture in hell.

Jesus talks about Hell plenty in Scripture.

So, it's more like you are 'cherry picking' rather then 'plainly reading'.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Do you know what vague Ambiguity means?
Ambiguity of information, in words, pictures, or other media, is the ability to express more than one interpretation. It is generally contrasted with vagueness, in that specific and distinct interpretations are permitted (although some may not be immediately apparent), whereas with information that is vague it is difficult to form any interpretation at the desired level of specificity. Wikipedia®

And Yes, the grave is a very lonely place!

HELL. This is the word generally and unfortunately used by our translators to render the Hebrew Sheol שאול, or:"αιδης, and once θανατος, 2 Sam. xxii. 6: Inferi or Inferna, or sometimes Mors).

We say unfortunately, because although, as St. Augustine truly asserts, Sheol,with its equivalents Inferi and Hades, are never used in a good sense (De Gen. ad Lit. xii. 33), yet the English word Hell is mixed up with numberless associations entirely foreign to the minds of the ancient Hebrews.

It would perhaps have been better to retain the Hebrew word Sheol, or else render it always by " the grave " or " the pit."

Ewald accepts Luther's word Holle; even Unterwelt, which is suggested by De Wette, involves conceptions too human for the purpose.
DR. WILLIAM SMITH'S DICTIONARY OF THE BIBLE; Page 1038
He-man, you are more relentless than a broken record, endlessly repeating the same tired 100+ year old quotes from Dr. Smith. It speaks volumes about you that you are unable to articulate your thoughts in your own words. Do you do the same thing in person? How much social interaction do you get most days? Any?
What does Dr. W. Smith believe concerning eternal hellfire torture?
Ever study on the covenantle parable of the rich man/Lazarus in Luke 16? ;)

Lazarus and the Rich Man - Here a little, there a little - Commentary

LUKE 16:22 "So it was that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels to Abraham's bosom. The rich man also died and was buried."
23 "And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom."

What did Yeshua mean by saying here that the rich man was in "torments in Hades"? The key to discovering the symbolic meaning of this verse is the Greek noun basanois, translated "torments" above.
According to Friberg's Analytical Lexicon of the Greek New Testament, basanois, which is a form of the noun basanos, means "strictly, a touchstone for testing the genuineness of metals by rubbing against it . . ."

The etymology of basanos found in Kittel's Theological Dictionary of the New Testament is very helpful in correctly understanding this verse:

If the Pharisees and scribes understood Yeshua's prophetic parable, it must have astonished and infuriated them. How could the Jews become alienated from God while the elect Gentiles became the "seed of Abraham"? The implication that the House of Judah and those called from the Gentile nations were to change places would have been almost impossible for the Pharisees and scribes to believe.
 
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Timothew

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Give it up Tim. For some people it's not enough to just shoot the horse. They want to submit it to torture after death by continuously flogging it after it has died. Just to teach it an extra lesson that death couldn't teach it in the first place. So many people claim to read and understand the bible, but this thread proves otherwise. They want to kill the horse, flog the horse and then turn it into pet food. Now that's efficient. We will just call the flogging pre-tenderising so Fido and Mittens get a better texture when they eat the minced Flicka from their plastic bowls on the back stoop. :cool:

Excellent! :ahah:


But I'll keep on, :comeon:


Even though they :noooo:


Until :dead:


Maybe someday they will :study:
 
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Timothew

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Well that's the problem right there. Try reading it in it's original Greek and you will no longer be able to deny Hell.
I have. If you have read it in it's original greek, I'm surprised that you have not rejected the unbiblical notion of eternal torment in hell. The greek is even stronger than the english translations. And the English Translations are very good.
 
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SilenceInMotion

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I have. If you have read it in it's original greek, I'm surprised that you have not rejected the unbiblical notion of eternal torment in hell. The greek is even stronger than the english translations. And the English Translations are very good.

Jesus talks about Hell.

So

How can you deny it?

I told you to read the original Greek just to throw a bone. But then I changed my mind- it is in the plain reading of Scripture and you are laboring under extreme heresy.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Timothew

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Jesus talks about Hell.

So

How can you deny it?

I told you to read the original Greek just to throw a bone. But then I changed my mind- it is in the plain reading of Scripture and you are laboring under extreme heresy.
I'm sorry, but you are mistaken. Jesus talked about being destroyed by fire in Gehenna, which is the Valley of Hinnom outside Jerusalem. I thought you said that you understood greek? The plain reading of scripture is "For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that whoever believes in him will not PERISH, but will have ETERNAL LIFE." This plainly says that some perish and some receive eternal life. NONE at all are tortured in hell. This is the plain reading of scripture. I believe it. IT doesn't support eternal torture in hell.
 
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If Not For Grace

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WHY: Easy-

People have a hard time getting their mind around how a "loving" God can allow people to be born into something, claim to give them free will and yet If they choose option B, then they suffer eternally for it. Particularly in western culture the concept of a "it's my way or the highway" is difficult for people who get to "vote" or voice an opinionn on everything.

No comprehension of Absolute Power...
 
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SilenceInMotion

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I'm sorry, but you are mistaken. Jesus talked about being destroyed by fire in Gehenna, which is the Valley of Hinnom outside Jerusalem. I thought you said that you understood greek? The plain reading of scripture is "For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that whoever believes in him will not PERISH, but will have ETERNAL LIFE." This plainly says that some perish and some receive eternal life. NONE at all are tortured in hell. This is the plain reading of scripture. I believe it. IT doesn't support eternal torture in hell.

How about reading Matthew 25?

Seriously, I get tired of this run around.

Not that it really matters, but if you look at the Catholic version, you will see a bit more conviction in the words.
NEW ADVENT BIBLE: Matthew 25
 
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