Eternal Fire SAVES not TORTURES (2)

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by Leggomyegolas

Sure, a parable *can* have a name in it. But none of them do, because adding the name of a fictional character in a story wouldn't add anything beneficial to the story. We don't know what the prodigal son's name was, or his older brother's name. Why? Because the names are irrelevant to the story.

So, in the rich man and Lazarus, we do have names. Why? Because it's telling a historical account of something that really happened. In that case, names do matter.​

​

thanks for making my point for me, I forgot to mention that

Staff just reopened this thread back up on the GT board.
Go for it!

http://www.christianforums.com/t7306890/#post61198082
Rich-man and Lazarus True story or Parable

 

[createdtoworship]

2 Thessalonians 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

the MASSES are deceived by mass religion of Satan [Rev 13:3-4] , believe his subtle alteration of God's word [for 'aion-' in Greek indeed refers to an 'aeon', not an impossible infinity of time] ...and are DESTROYED [Matt 7:13] ...

why do you not believe this scripture ?

the rest of scripture explains the mistake, , why do you ignore that ?

I guess greek scholars are also led astray? Because that is what I was quoting to you!

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

where does it state in hebrews that the Jews have not recieved the promise yet?

The apostate non-Christian Jews of today go to the same place as the apostate non-Christian Muslims and heathen unbelievers go if they do not accept Jesus as Lord, King, Savior and Redeemer.
Only thru the belief in and the faith of Jesus the Christ can one attain a resurrection to eternal life

 

[createdtoworship]

The apostate non-Christian Jews of today go to the same place as the apostate non-Christian Muslims and heathen unbelievers go if they do not accept Jesus as Lord, King, Savior and Redeemer.
Only thru the belief in and the faith of Jesus the Christ can one attain a resurrection to eternal life

yes I agree, but what vers in hebrews states this:

"all the other Old Testament saints, have not yet received the promises given to them by God:"

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

yes I agree, but what vers in hebrews states this:

"all the other Old Testament saints, have not yet received the promises given to them by God:"

You can ask the author of that site or a member here can answer that for you

Lazarus and the Rich Man - Here a little, there a little - Commentary

If this story is literal, then we have a contradiction in the Bible. Here, Lazarus is shown to have immediately received the promise of eternal life. Yet the author of Hebrews clearly tells us that Abraham, as well as all the other Old Testament saints, have not yet received the promises given to them by God:

 

[createdtoworship]

You can ask the author of that site

Lazarus and the Rich Man - Here a little, there a little - Commentary

If this story is literal, then we have a contradiction in the Bible. Here, Lazarus is shown to have immediately received the promise of eternal life. Yet the author of Hebrews clearly tells us that Abraham, as well as all the other Old Testament saints, have not yet received the promises given to them by God:

He quotes Hebrews 11:13, but it's talking about promises of the promised land not heaven

 

[Timothew]

Story #1:
A man had 2 sons. One of them asked for his inheritance early, and left home and spent it recklessly on loose living. When he ran out of money, and was barely scraping by, eating the same food as pigs, he came back home and asked his father to make him one of his servants, because even his father's servants ate better than those pigs did. But his father instead threw a big banquet in his son's honor, and was overjoyed because his son had been lost but was now found. The older brother was jealous, but the father rebuked him for his jealousy.

Story #2:
Steve Jobs and Steve Wozniak met in 1971, when their mutual friend, Bill Fernandez, introduced 21-year-old Wozniak to 16-year-old Jobs. In 1976, Wozniak invented the Apple I computer. Jobs, Wozniak, and Ronald Wayne founded Apple computer in the garage of Jobs's parents in order to sell it. They received funding from a then-semi-retired Intel product-marketing manager and engineer Mike Markkula.
In 1978, Apple recruited Mike Scott from National Semiconductor to serve as CEO for what turned out to be several turbulent years. In 1983, Jobs lured John Sculley away from Pepsi-Cola to serve as Apple's CEO, asking, "Do you want to sugar water for the rest of your life, or do you want to come with me and change the world?"

Which one would you assume is a real, historical story, and which one is a parable? Why?

Johnny Appleseed and Paul Bunyan met in 1786. Paul Bunyan called Johnny Appleseed a liberal tree hugger annd Johnny Appleseed called Paul Bunyan a knuckle dragging Neanderthal. They got into a fistfight and Paul Bunyan knocked Johnny Appleseed into the next state.

A certain man decided to build automobiles. He invested all of his money and built a factory. He said you could buy any color automobile that you wanted, as long as it was black.

Can you tell which of these stories is true based on the use of names?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

He quotes Hebrews 11:13, but it's talking about promises of the promised land not heaven

The Jews also await an earthly Temple, Sanctuary and Priesthood to be built in the Land.

They, along with the Muslims, are yet still Carnal

Hebrews 11:16 But now they desire a better, that is, a heavenly [country.] Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for He has prepared a city for them.

Hebrews 12:22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels,

 

[Timothew]

So, in the rich man and Lazarus, we do have names. Why? Because it's telling a historical account of something that really happened. In that case, names do matter.

According to the 1932 movie, Babes in Toyland AKA The March of the Wooden Soldiers, the names of the Three Little Pigs are Elmer, Willie, and Jiggs.

So in the story of the three little pigs, we do have names. Why? Because it's telling a historical account of something that really happened. In this case, names do matter.

 

[Leggomyegolas]

Johnny Appleseed and Paul Bunyan met in 1786. Paul Bunyan called Johnny Appleseed a liberal tree hugger annd Johnny Appleseed called Paul Bunyan a knuckle dragging Neanderthal. They got into a fistfight and Paul Bunyan knocked Johnny Appleseed into the next state.

A certain man decided to build automobiles. He invested all of his money and built a factory. He said you could buy any color automobile that you wanted, as long as it was black.

Can you tell which of these stories is true based on the use of names?

Can I tell which one is true? Yes.
Would I assume correctly if I didn't already know that Paul Bunyan and Johnny Appleseed are fictional characters, and that the "certain man" is Henry Ford? If I thought you weren't trying to deceive me, then no, probably not.

 

[Leggomyegolas]

According to the 1932 movie, Babes in Toyland AKA The March of the Wooden Soldiers, the names of the Three Little Pigs are Elmer, Willie, and Jiggs.

So in the story of the three little pigs, we do have names. Why? Because it's telling a historical account of something that really happened. In this case, names do matter.

Like I said before, you *can* add names to a parable if you really want to, but why would you? It doesn't add anything meaningful to the story.

In the rich man and Lazarus, if you take the names out, does the story still make as much sense? If it's just the rich man, and the poor man, and when the poor man dies, his soul goes to the place where his ancestors are?

 

[he-man]

yes I agree, but what vers in hebrews states this:"all the other Old Testament saints, have not yet received the promises given to them by God:"

Heb 11:7 Noah, Abraham, Jacob, Sara, innumerable,
-13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

Act 2:34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,

 

[createdtoworship]

The Jews also await an earthly Temple, Sanctuary and Priesthood to be built in the Land.

They, along with the Muslims, are yet still Carnal

Hebrews 11:16 But now they desire a better, that is, a heavenly [country.] Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for He has prepared a city for them.

Hebrews 12:22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels,

that doesn't link the two verses that there was a promise afar off and that promise was heaven, it just says it was a promise afar off....could be any promise, including the promised land.

 

[createdtoworship]

Heb 11:7 Noah, Abraham, Jacob, Sara, innumerable,
-13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

Act 2:34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,

yeah, thats not a promise of heaven again. If it were when they died they WOULD have received the promise.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

that doesn't link the two verses that there was a promise afar off and that promise was heaven, it just says it was a promise afar off....could be any promise, including the promised land.

Just take yer pick

 

[dollarsbill]

This parable is spoken to both the common Jews and the corrupt murderous Judean rulers, Pharisees.
Did ya notice his bit about the 5 brothers in vs 28

You start off with a TOTALLY false assumption, parable.

 

[dollarsbill]

So, show us the rule that says a parable can't have a name in it.
Otherwise, parables can contain names if the parable teller wants to put a name in it.

Pretty simple, no parable does.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by LittleLambofJesus

This parable is spoken to both the common Jews and the corrupt murderous Judean rulers, Pharisees.
Did ya notice his bit about the 5 brothers in vs 28
​

You start off with a TOTALLY false assumption, parable.

Then bring your assumptions of that parable over to this thread to discuss:

http://www.christianforums.com/t7306890/
Rich-man and Lazarus True story or Parable

 

[Timothew]

Pretty simple, no parable does.

Pretty simple, one parable does. The parable of Lazarus and the rich man.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by dollarsbill

Pretty simple, no parable does.​

​

Pretty simple, one parable does. The parable of Lazarus and the rich man.

We can actually look at other parables to help identify the rich man in Luke 16.
Here is one here.
Who is the King symbolizing

http://www.christianforums.com/t7460817-5/#post54547712
Matthew 22 and the "Man" not clothed for wedding feast

Matthew 22:11 And entering yet the King, to gaze of the ones reclining, He saw there a Man not clothed in cothing of wedding feast