WoF verses Non-WoF

[Yahu]

I don't wear my own righteouness, I wear His
Peace...

Then expect to be naked in Heaven. You have to earn your own robe of righteousness. It is still His righteousness by being led by the spirit but it must shine through us by our actions.

You can't live like hell then claim it is His righteousness.

 

[TasManOfGod]

But that is the lie. We are NOT delivered from ALL curses.

Not only all curses but all sin and all sickness also
If there was anything else Christ could have done for us He would have done it.
Now do we (all beleivers) appropriate all that is available to us
No far from it
Most only receive redemption from sin
Others (particularly of the Wof variety )receive redemption from sickness as well
While still others also include redemption from the curse of the Law.
How does this happen ? By faith having heard the Word and received it.
That is why it is inappropriate to shoot the messenger or call him a liar.

 

[hislegacy]

Not only all curses but all sin and all sickness also
If there was anything else Christ could have done for us He would have done it.
Now do we (all beleivers) appropriate all that is available to us
No far from it
Most only receive redemption from sin
Others (particularly of the Wof variety )receive redemption from sickness as well
While still others also include redemption from the curse of the Law.
How does this happen ? By faith having heard the Word and received it.
That is why it is inappropriate to shoot the messenger or call him a liar.

Excellent post

 

[hislegacy]

Then expect to be naked in Heaven. You have to earn your own robe of righteousness. It is still His righteousness by being led by the spirit but it must shine through us by our actions.
.

Really?

For if by the one man’s offense death reigned through the one, much more those who receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.)

Too bad the Bible says otherwise.

OTOH, you can't possibly love Christ and live like the devil. Jesus Himself said an expression of our Love for Him was to be obedient.

Teach people to love Jesus with all the have and sin becomes a mute issue.

 

[hislegacy]

Dup

 

[dkbwarrior]

Then expect to be naked in Heaven. You have to earn your own robe of righteousness.

No, you are mistaken:

6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.
-Isaiah 64:6

Peace...

 

[Alive_Again]

The vision of the unclean animals was symbolic. It didn't pertain to food. Animals are associated with different people groups all over scripture.

It was only symbolic in that those things and people which were formerly by the Law considered unclean are now to be received by those in covenant with God. This includes the eating of formerly unclean animals. Nothing is to be refused. It must be eaten by faith.

When Yeshua said it is what comes out of a man that defiles, he was referencing not washing his hands before eating, not being in violation of Yah's law.

We are no longer held to the law of ordinances, of which eating a limited variety of animals, the washing of hands, etc. applies. These things don't have anything to do with the heart. That is why it is the heart condition in the New Covenant that determines whether or not we are defiled. Nothing defiled will get into heaven. That is why when we sin (and we will), we need to be cleansed by the blood of Jesus.

It should also be said that our righteousness is a complete gift. We cannot attain to that. We are called to fulfill righteousness, but that is absolutely impossible without the working of the Holy Spirit and the blood of Jesus. We cannot regenerate ourselves, do, or cause to do anything resembling righteousness. As Jesus said, "Without Me, you can do nothing". In Him we can fulfill righteousness. We must, like Abraham go to sacrifice Isaac. Abraham could not have failed to fulfill this. Rahab had to receive the spies, and the list goes on. Jesus had to obey God to be the sinless sacrifice.

Any doctrine that would acknowledge righteousness to be anything beyond the absolute gift of grace is a distorted version of the truth. We CAN, though obey God by the ability which He provides. This is all grace too. We DO sin, and thus we need to be cleansed.

 

[dkbwarrior]

Any doctrine that would acknowledge righteousness to be anything beyond the absolute gift of grace is a distorted version of the truth.

Agreed, and well said. Any doctrine that says that we can do anything to earn or attain our own righteousness outside of the gift of righteousness betowed upon us by the grace of a loving God is far more dangerous than believing that all the promises of God are for us today. In fact, it is heretical.

3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.
4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.
6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.
7 Ye did run well; who did hinder you that ye should not obey the truth?
8 This persuasion cometh not of him that calleth you.
-Galatians 5:3-8

Peace...

 

[Alive_Again]

But that is the lie. We are NOT delivered from ALL curses.

We are delivered from all curses. However, that presupposes that we are walking in the light. There are many curses for those who walk in darkness. It only takes repentance to change that eligibility.

We may have circumstances in our lives that may exist as a result of these curses and we may have to exercise patience in our restoration, even though we are delivered from all the power of the enemy. There are judgments that we sometimes have to walk through according to the mercy of God.

It is not His will for us to suffer from curses. Obviously a curse has everything to do with evil spirits and their effects upon those of the world.

 

[Yahu]

Not only all curses but all sin and all sickness also
If there was anything else Christ could have done for us He would have done it.
Now do we (all beleivers) appropriate all that is available to us
No far from it
Most only receive redemption from sin
Others (particularly of the Wof variety )receive redemption from sickness as well
While still others also include redemption from the curse of the Law.
How does this happen ? By faith having heard the Word and received it.
That is why it is inappropriate to shoot the messenger or call him a liar.

You seek to forget that Yeshua spoke curses in the New Testament. Even IF the Old Testament curses for violation of Yah's will were removed and you toss out the entire old testament, there are curses spoken in the New Testament! I have already given the Jezebel example from Rev 2 many times in this thread.

This is also a curse:
Ga 6:8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.

It again is a conditional curse in the form of IF you do this THEN this will happen. A curse is consequences for actions against the will of Yah. How can all curses be broken when the New Testament clearly states consequences. The law of reaping and sowing is not removed!

IF you sow evil Then you will reap evil! How it that done away with? Here are other examples:

Rev 2:5 remember therefore whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works: but if not, I am coming to thee, and I will remove thy lamp out of its place, except thou shalt repent.

16 repent therefore: but if not, I come to thee quickly, and I will make war with them with the sword of my mouth.

21 and I gave her time that she should repent, and she will not repent of her fornication.
22 behold, I cast her into a bed, and those that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, unless they repent of her works,
23 and her children will I kill with death; and all the assemblies shall know that *I* am he that searches the reins and the hearts; and I will give to you each according to your works.

17 because thou sayest, I am rich, and am grown rich, and have need of nothing, and knowest not that *thou* art the wretched and the miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked;
18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold purified by fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white garments, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness may not be made manifest; and eye-salve to anoint thine eyes, that thou mayest see.
19 I rebuke and discipline as many as I love; be zealous therefore and repent.

The ONLY curse that we are redeemed of is this one:
Ga 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

We are redeemed from the curse that requires us to be perfect under the law!

So are you redeemed from this sickness?
1 Co 11:29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord’s body.
30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep (die).

This WoF doctrine again removes all accountability of our actions. It claims Yeshua did it all and we don't have to do anything but believe yet many actions generate a response. Sin causes error, sickness and death if it isn't dealt with. You can't just go right on willfully sinning and expect no consequences. Those consequences are curses.

Expect any WoF who follows Jezebel, ie an Ahab, to be cast into great tribulation. Expect any Jezebel to be cast into the sick bed and die if she doesn't repent. Expect to reap corruption when you sow to the flesh. Sowing money to reap money is sowing to the flesh. It is following after mammon or the 'lord of fortune'.

How many WoF followers will be cast into the outer darkness? How many will be outside the walls of the heavenly city because they claimed everything was covered by grace through their faith yet continued in some abomination as a result? BTW witchcraft is one of the abominations that will get them put outside the city gates with the murderers and homosexuals.


Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

Dogs is a Hebrew reference to male homosexual prostitutes. Sorcerers here is those that misuse spiritual authority. Yes, Yeshua did enough to get you into the Heavenly kingdom. Your position in that kingdom is dependent on your actions in following his commandments. If you will settle for being 'outside the gates' and forbidden the 'tree of life' that is your option. All I can do is sound the warning. Those that refuse to listen, well the consequences are upon their own head.

 

[TasManOfGod]

Yahu it is plainfully obvious to me that you spend most of you time being concerned with the sinful character of man rather than the redeeming character of God. Jesus didn't call us to express how bad man was but rather how good God was.

 

[Yahu]

Yahu it is plainfully obvious to me that you spend most of you time being concerned with the sinful character of man rather than the redeeming character of God. Jesus didn't call us to express how bad man was but rather how good God was.

My calling is a call to repentance for the people.

The beginning of wisdom is the fear of YHVH but few people seem to fear the consequences of their actions. The church is full of foolish children that think Yah is just a bigger version of Santa.

 

[TasManOfGod]

My calling is a call to repentance for the people.

The beginning of wisdom is the fear of YHVH but few people seem to fear the consequences of their actions. The church is full of foolish children that think Yah is just a bigger version of Santa.

The only consequence for a believer for ungodlness is the lack of reward. I would suggest being very careful about misrepresenting the nature of God.

 

[Simon Peter]

The only consequence for a believer for ungodlness is the lack of reward.

I would suggest being very careful about misrepresenting the nature of God.

Why?

If the only consequence is a lack of reward.


peace,
Simon

 

[TasManOfGod]

Why?

If the only consequence is a lack of reward.


peace,
Simon

These are two different statements - not necessarily associated

 

[Simon Peter]

These are two different statements - not necessarily associated

Ok then.

But the question remains: Why?

Why should one be "very careful about misrepresenting the nature of God"?



peace,
Simon

 

[Alive_Again]

The only consequence for a believer for ungodlness is the lack of reward. I would suggest being very careful about misrepresenting the nature of God.

Mmmm...

An ungodly witness scorneth judgment: and the mouth of the wicked devoureth iniquity.
Prov 19:28

To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.
Jude 1:15

But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
2 Peter 3:7

How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts. These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.
Jude 1:18-19

Sensual = carnal

And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly; And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;
2 Peter 2:5-6

And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?
1 Peter 4:18

Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;
1 Tim 1:9-10

Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
Titus 2:12

Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment, nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous. For the Lord knoweth the way of the righteous: but the way of the ungodly shall perish.
Psalms 1:5-6

 

[Yahu]

Ok then.

But the question remains: Why?

Why should one be "very careful about misrepresenting the nature of God"?
peace,
Simon

I would suggest you actually read the old testament to see the nature of Yah.

 

[Simon Peter]

I would suggest you actually read the old testament to see the nature of Yah.

LOL.

Thanks...But I've read the entire OT at least 7 times and I know that God is to be feared.

I was just surprised that a WoF appeared to be saying we should fear God, so I was trying to get him to explain. Still no response though.

It's probably that they just think other people should fear God. They sometimes threaten people with God, but then claim God is only kind and gentle and fluffy.

peace,
Simon

 

[Yahu]

It's probably that they just think other people should fear God. They sometimes threaten people with God, but then claim God is only kind and gentle and fluffy.

peace,
Simon

Oh, I agree. I don't understand how people can follow the light and fluffy side of Yah without understanding His entire nature. Yes, Father can be nice but I guess they have never seen His anger.