Answering any questions on Evolution

[Mr Strawberry]

They why don't we just skip Q&A, since it all boils down to one side demanding evidence, and the other side demanding faith?

At first, a story from the Bible was told.

Then the story was ridiculed because of its depiction of God as being unjust.

When I chimed in and pointed out that we don't know the whole story; then the trump card is play: "Let's see evidence."

Why wasn't evidence asked for up front, rather than try to slip an ad hominem on God through?

I'll tell you why.

Because my answer caught you off-guard, didn't it?

So now you're retreating behind your "shield of faith" and demanding evidence.

I don't know how many times I've seen that happen here.

It happens a lot with Noah's flood.

Someone wants to know why God didn't just blink everyone out of existence, rather than drown them slowly; and when I point out that drowning them gave them time to repent; the conversation usually ends up with a demand for evidence of the Flood in the first place.

Like I say ... you Internet scientists are a dime a dozen, with 9¢ change.

Even another poster, who followed me back here from another site, appears to have left this place because of its lack of scientists.

Catching people off guard might be your interpretation, incredulous that you are being serious might be another.

 

[AV1611VET]

Catching people off guard might be your interpretation, incredulous that you are being serious might be another.

Oh, so you do know the whole story? you were there?

 

[Mr Strawberry]

Oh, so you do know the whole story? you were there?

My only interest was in your creative and rather optimistic interpretation of audience reaction to your posts. I was just trying to rein in your ego momentarily.

 

[Wiccan_Child]

Some people do not ever seem to get sick. My son missed three days of school in the last three years. But there were people that in three years they did not miss any school at all.

Well, that doesn't mean they weren't sick, only that they didn't take time off. Besides, is there a correlation between sick days and religious faith?

 

[NailsII]

They why don't we just skip Q&A, since it all boils down to one side demanding evidence, and the other side demanding faith?

?Because without evidence, we have no way of knowing if someone is telling the truth or not.
It really is that simple.
I'm not doing it out of malace, it is the only way to seperate the wheat from the chaff as they say.

At first, a story from the Bible was told.

Then the story was ridiculed because of its depiction of God as being unjust.

Is that a fair assessement of the story?

When I chimed in and pointed out that we don't know the whole story; then the trump card is play: "Let's see evidence."

How can you not know the whole story if it is from the bible?
How do you know if it is accurate without evidence?

Why wasn't evidence asked for up front, rather than try to slip an ad hominem on God through?

If someone makes an incredible claim, it requires evidence to back it up.
I would be a little stupid to ask for evidence before you have made an assertion...

I'll tell you why.

Because my answer caught you off-guard, didn't it?

No.

So now you're retreating behind your "shield of faith" and demanding evidence.

I don't know how many times I've seen that happen here.

It happens a lot with Noah's flood.

It isn't a shield, it is a tool for seperating the snake oil from the crude oil.
The reason it happens a lot with Noah's flood is because most people (*) accept it is a story and not an actual written historical account.

* this is just an estimate, but I could dig for some statistics if yo wish.

Someone wants to know why God didn't just blink everyone out of existence, rather than drown them slowly; and when I point out that drowning them gave them time to repent; the conversation usually ends up with a demand for evidence of the Flood in the first place.

It is a valid point though, surely.
Plus we all know that there is no evidence for a global flood, and you yourself have admitted that there is no evidence for a creation.

Like I say ... you Internet scientists are a dime a dozen, with 9¢ change.

Even another poster, who followed me back here from another site, appears to have left this place because of its lack of scientists.

And this is relevant how?

* Edit - if a soul does exist, then it must be measurable because it interacts with physical processes, such as thought, emotion etc. For it to be the vector for carrying human conciousness into the next life, it must have to interact with some if not all of the brain. These interactions must be measurable, so I would expect some hint of evidence for its existence. *

 

[Non sequitur]

According to tripartitism, a born-again believer's soul is fed by the fruit of the Spirit, which gets its nourishment from the Word of God.

The two in turn, help to nourish the body by strengthening the immune system.

It's kind of like a circle: the body reads the Word, which feeds the Spirit, which nourishes the soul, which nourishes the body.

Very few people, including myself, have that harmony ... in my opinion.

Whoa... I had to use my Tuning Crystals to really see the Truth in that.


However, I'lll one up that:

Quantum healing is healing the bodymind from a quantum level. That means from a level which is not manifest at a sensory level. Our bodies ultimately are fields of information, intelligence and energy. Quantum healing involves a shift in the fields of energy information, so as to bring about a correction in an idea that has gone wrong. So quantum healing involves healing one mode of consciousness, mind, to bring about changes in another mode of consciousness, body. --Deepak Chopra

Boom.

Now what.

 

[bobsterInJapan]

This thread is getting mighty long..

Is the OP sill open for questions?

I have heard of a type of owl, though I don't know the name of it, which has a face that is shaped like a dish, as in a statellite dish. It also has left and right ear holes that are vertically out-of-line with respect to each other. This owl has amazing hearing and can tell accurately where sounds are coming from, including vertical components.

How could such a bird evolve in such a way. How did his/her alleged ancestors evolve a dish face, especially, the beginning stages, i.e., the owl's face slightly becoming concave. Wouldn't an ever-so-slightly concave face have no real advantage over a non-concave face. Do you get what I mean?

 

[KhaosTheory]

This thread is getting mighty long..

Is the OP sill open for questions?

I have heard of a type of owl, though I don't know the name of it, which has a face that is shaped like a dish, as in a statellite dish. It also has left and right ear holes that are vertically out-of-line with respect to each other. This owl has amazing hearing and can tell accurately where sounds are coming from, including vertical components.

How could such a bird evolve in such a way. How did his/her alleged ancestors evolve a dish face, especially, the beginning stages, i.e., the owl's face slightly becoming concave. Wouldn't an ever-so-slightly concave face have no real advantage over a non-concave face. Do you get what I mean?

That's actually a perfect example of natural selection.

Yes, a slightly concave face would allow the owl to hear slightly better and thus catch prey to feed itself and reproduce better than non-concave faced owls.

Generations later, there are only concave faced owls left because the other ones had a slightly harder time finding food and eventually died off.

Wings:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9dHWOjRMxM

 

[bobsterInJapan]

That's actually a perfect example of natural selection.

Yes, a slightly concave face would allow the owl to hear slightly better and thus catch prey to feed itself and reproduce better than non-concave faced owls.

Generations later, there are only concave faced owls left because the other ones had a slightly harder time finding food and eventually died off.

Wings:

Thank you for your reply and for the video link. I will most likely have further questions after I get time to study the video of Richard Dawkins about wings.

 

[SkyWriting]

That's actually a perfect example of natural selection.Yes, a slightly concave face would allow the owl to hear slightly better and thus catch prey to feed itself and reproduce better than non-concave faced owls.Generations later, there are only concave faced owls left because the other ones had a slightly harder time finding food and eventually died off.

Everyone loves a good story. Here's one. Smooth hard surfaces reflect sound in predictable directions, and soft and rough surfaces disperse and absorb sound patterns. Early, smooth concrete sound barriers along the expressways have been redesigns with rough uneven patterns to disperse sound. Some have used wood to absorb noise, but don't last as long.
Are feathers more of a smooth/hard surface or soft and rough? I thinks.
So I look into it:

The owl has a concave face capable of absorbing sound.
Eiji Nakatsu: Lecture on Biomimicry as applied to a Japanese Train - It is Alive in the Lab

They have specially-designed, sound-absorbing feathers that allow them to accomplish silent flight.Barred Owl

Some owls have feathered ear tufts; these are not ears, but are part of the owl's camouflage. Flight Many owls have thick feathers that absorb the sounds...Owls - EnchantedLearning.com

There are a number of non-researched sources claiming that the owls face is like a radio dish. That is impossible. The "Listening" focal point would be 12 - 14 inches in front of the owls face. LOOK at were the listening devices are located:

The focal point of any listening reflection surface is never asymmetrically located behind the dish surface.

I agree this is a perfect example of evolution at work. Rumors spread by people not checking for sources.

 

[CabVet]

Everyone loves a good story. Here's one. Smooth hard surfaces reflect sound in predictable directions, and soft and rough surfaces disperse and absorb sound patterns. Early, smooth concrete sound barriers along the expressways have been redesigns with rough uneven patterns to disperse sound. Some have used wood to absorb noise, but don't last as long.
Are feathers more of a smooth/hard surface or soft and rough? I thinks.
So I look into it:

The owl has a concave face capable of absorbing sound.
Eiji Nakatsu: Lecture on Biomimicry as applied to a Japanese Train - It is Alive in the Lab

They have specially-designed, sound-absorbing feathers that allow them to accomplish silent flight.Barred Owl

Some owls have feathered ear tufts; these are not ears, but are part of the owl's camouflage. Flight Many owls have thick feathers that absorb the sounds...Owls - EnchantedLearning.com

There are a number of non-researched sources claiming that the owls face is like a radio dish. That is impossible. The "Listening" focal point would be 12 - 14 inches in front of the owls face. LOOK at were the listening devices are located:

The focal point of any listening reflection surface is never asymmetrically located behind the dish surface.

I agree this is a perfect example of evolution at work. Rumors spread by people not checking for sources.

Yes Mr. Expert, a perfect example of a creationist at work. As you can see below, the focal point of the human ear (the eardrum) is located behind the dish surface (your outer ear). So much for the listening membrane never being located behind the dish. LOOK at where the listening device is located:

The owl's face does not reflect sound. It amplifies and directs the sounds to it's ears, much like our own outer ears do, except theirs are much better. In other words, the owl's "ear" is it's entire face. Perhaps you are the one that might want to check your sources, after all that is how rumors spread.

 

[Wiccan_Child]

This thread is getting mighty long..

Is the OP sill open for questions?

I have heard of a type of owl, though I don't know the name of it, which has a face that is shaped like a dish, as in a statellite dish. It also has left and right ear holes that are vertically out-of-line with respect to each other. This owl has amazing hearing and can tell accurately where sounds are coming from, including vertical components.

How could such a bird evolve in such a way. How did his/her alleged ancestors evolve a dish face, especially, the beginning stages, i.e., the owl's face slightly becoming concave. Wouldn't an ever-so-slightly concave face have no real advantage over a non-concave face. Do you get what I mean?

Yes, but you're assumption is wrong: a slightly concave face is an advantage, at least to an owl.

 

[CabVet]

Everyone loves a good story. Here's one. Smooth hard surfaces reflect sound in predictable directions, and soft and rough surfaces disperse and absorb sound patterns. Early, smooth concrete sound barriers along the expressways have been redesigns with rough uneven patterns to disperse sound. Some have used wood to absorb noise, but don't last as long.
Are feathers more of a smooth/hard surface or soft and rough? I thinks.
So I look into it:

The owl has a concave face capable of absorbing sound.
Eiji Nakatsu: Lecture on Biomimicry as applied to a Japanese Train - It is Alive in the Lab

They have specially-designed, sound-absorbing feathers that allow them to accomplish silent flight.Barred Owl

Some owls have feathered ear tufts; these are not ears, but are part of the owl's camouflage. Flight Many owls have thick feathers that absorb the sounds...Owls - EnchantedLearning.com

There are a number of non-researched sources claiming that the owls face is like a radio dish. That is impossible. The "Listening" focal point would be 12 - 14 inches in front of the owls face. LOOK at were the listening devices are located:

The focal point of any listening reflection surface is never asymmetrically located behind the dish surface.

I agree this is a perfect example of evolution at work. Rumors spread by people not checking for sources.

No response for my post above, eh? Hard to admit that you are wrong, correct? If you still think that the sensor cannot be behind the dish surface try one of these for yourself and tell us what you found out:

Or better yet, try the "artificial" owl:

But even something simple like this will prove evolution's point:

All three examples above are analogous to what evolution caused an owl's face to look like.

 

[SkyWriting]

No response for my post above, eh? Hard to admit that you are wrong, correct? If you still think that the sensor cannot be behind the dish surface try one of these for yourself and tell us what you found out:

Or better yet, try the "artificial" owl:

But even something simple like this will prove evolution's point:


All three examples above are analogous to what evolution caused an owl's face to look like.

You must be a well paid researcher! Your examples all show the eardrum in front of the reflective surface.
The hearing horn being the least obvious. But in fact, I was wrong. The eardrums are not hidden behind the
owls feathers or below the curve of the reflective surface, as I stated knew they couldn't be.
And the owls face is not concave either as was originally argued.

 

[CabVet]

You must be a well paid researcher!

Still not going to admit that you are wrong about owl's faces not working as sound amplifiers?

 

[SkyWriting]

Yes Mr. Expert, a perfect example of a creationist at work. As you can see below, the focal point of the human ear (the eardrum) is located behind the dish surface (your outer ear). So much for the listening membrane never being located behind the dish. LOOK at where the listening device is located:


The owl's face does not reflect sound. It amplifies and directs the sounds to it's ears, much like our own outer ears do, except theirs are much better. In other words, the owl's "ear" is it's entire face. Perhaps you are the one that might want to check your sources, after all that is how rumors spread.

The cone or horn is the reflective surface. The eardum remains at the focal point in front of the curve. Though the curve of a horn is difficult to grasp. A horn is always a convex surface not concave. The owls dense "ruff" do reflect only high frequency sounds toward the owls asymmetric ears and have no effect on lower frequency sounds.

 

[CaliforniaSun]

wuts evlutin

It's, like, really hard to learn sciency stuff. Stick with the cdesign proponentists'!

 

[CabVet]

The cone or horn is the reflective surface. The eardum remains at the focal point in front of the curve. Though the curve of a horn is difficult to grasp. A horn is always a convex surface not concave. The owls dense "ruff" do reflect only high frequency sounds toward the owls asymmetric ears and have no effect on lower frequency sounds.

In other words, you were wrong. Do you want to know what else evolution did to the owl's ears? It made the asymmetric:

Asymmetric ear placement allows them to pinpoint with more accuracy where the sound is coming from.

 

[CabVet]

And the owls face is not concave either as was originally argued.

Wrong again. The bones are not concave, but the face is.

Facial disc - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

From the link above: "In ornithology, the facial disc is the concave collection of feathers on the face of some birds—most notably owls—surrounding the eyes. The concavity of the facial disc forms a circular paraboloid that collects sound waves and directs those waves towards the owl's ears. The feathers making up this disc can be adjusted by the bird to alter the focal length of this sound collector, enabling the bird to focus at different distances and allowing it to locate prey by sound alone under snow, grass, and plant cover."

 

[sandwiches]

Wrong again. The bones are not concave, but the face is.

Facial disc - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

From the link above: "In ornithology, the facial disc is the concave collection of feathers on the face of some birds—most notably owls—surrounding the eyes. The concavity of the facial disc forms a circular paraboloid that collects sound waves and directs those waves towards the owl's ears. The feathers making up this disc can be adjusted by the bird to alter the focal length of this sound collector, enabling the bird to focus at different distances and allowing it to locate prey by sound alone under snow, grass, and plant cover."

Ouch... talk about pwning...