Let's Talk About Hell (6)

[LutheranMafia]

It never says that Saul couldn't see Samuel. Why wouldn't he be able to see him?

It is clearly implied by the fact that Saul keeps asking the witch what she is seeing:

The king said to her, “Don’t be afraid. What do you see?”
The woman said, “I see a ghostly figure[a] coming up out of the earth.”
“What does he look like?” he asked.
​

Elohim being a physical being, How about Jesus Christ? Also, it says "one like the elohim" if I recall correctly.

The word elohim only appears in the OT and it does not always refer to God. Here is a tabulation of the ways the word elohim is used: God 2346, god 244, judge 5, GOD 1, goddess 2, great 2, mighty 2, angels 1, exceeding 1, God-ward + 04136 1, godly 1

OK, so judges are physical beings, you've got me there, but all of the other translations of the word do not refer to physical beings, and never does it refer to a resurrected being. It does refer to immaterial spirits like gods and angels which share a lot in common with ghosts.

 

[Timothew]

Angels also are material beings.

 

[createdtoworship]

Angels also are material beings.

if we can entertain angels unaware how do you believe they are physical?

 

[createdtoworship]

Oh really? Then you for one thing, what happens to those who live during the thousand years? Do they all just go to the grave? Since there is no literal hell only the second death.

Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished.

Lewis Sperry Chafer - systematic theology says this:


Revelation 20:12-13 identifies those comprising the second resurrection as the wicked judged by God at the great white throne judgment prior to being cast into the lake of fire. The second resurrection, then, is the raising of all unbelievers; the second resurrection is connected to the second death. It corresponds with Jesus’ teaching of the “resurrection of damnation” (John 5:29).

 

[he-man]

Lewis Sperry Chafer - systematic theology says this:Revelation 20:12-13 identifies those comprising the second resurrection as the wicked judged by God at the great white throne judgment prior to being cast into the lake of fire. The second resurrection, then, is the raising of all unbelievers; the second resurrection is connected to the second death. It corresponds with Jesus’ teaching of the “resurrection of damnation” (John 5:29).

The systematic theology of the Bible teaches differently.

You can tell Lewis Sperry Chafer did not know what he was talking about and did not know Greek. There is NO resurrecton of damnation. John 5:29 says: the second resurrection is of they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of κρισεως judgment.

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]G2920 κρισιν κρίση decision, judgment, a separating[/FONT][/FONT]

 

[Timothew]

if we can entertain angels unaware how do you believe they are physical?

Because if they weren't physical, we would notice that while we were entertaining them.

 

[createdtoworship]

Because if they weren't physical, we would notice that while we were entertaining them.

did you read that before you posted?

 

[Timothew]

did you read that before you posted?

I don't always understand your worldview. If you were serving tea to an angel that wasn't physical, wouldn't you notice that she had no body? I think that would be the first thing I would notice.

 

[Timothew]

If we can entertain angels without knowing that they are angels (unaware), how do you believe that they are not physical?

 

[createdtoworship]

I don't always understand your worldview. If you were serving tea to an angel that wasn't physical, wouldn't you notice that she had no body? I think that would be the first thing I would notice.

Ghosts can be seen, does that mean they are physical?

 

[createdtoworship]

If we can entertain angels without knowing that they are angels (unaware), how do you believe that they are not physical?

because they come in spirit form and can deceive our senses, like a ghost apparition would. Demons can cause great disturbances in the physical world, even without a body.

 

[Timothew]

Ghosts can be seen, does that mean they are physical?

I'm talking about real life, not ghost stories. Besides, didn't LutheranMafia say that Samuel was a ghost specifically because Saul could not see him? If ghosts can be seen, then LM's argument flies out of the window.

 

[Timothew]

The men that came to visit Abraham were physical men, but the bible says they were angels.

 

[Timothew]

Genesis 19:1, 10, 15 and 16.

The two angels arrived at Sodom in the evening.

But the men inside reached out and pulled Lot back into the house and shut the door.

With the coming of dawn, the angels urged Lot, saying, “Hurry!

When he hesitated, the men grasped his hand.

These angels are clearly depicted in the bible as being physical and material.

 

[createdtoworship]

These angels are clearly depicted in the bible as being physical and material.

yeah, then how can they appear in the sky and fly?

Genesis 19:1, 10, 15 and 16.

The two angels arrived at Sodom in the evening.

But the men inside reached out and pulled Lot back into the house and shut the door.

With the coming of dawn, the angels urged Lot, saying, “Hurry!

When he hesitated, the men grasped his hand.

angels can alter phsical dimensions to solidify upon demand. Even satan asked Christ to throw himself off a cliff and to have the angels carry him. So obviously they can both fly freely in and out of space and they can solidify upon demand.

 

[he-man]

because they come in spirit form and can deceive our senses, like a ghost apparition would. Demons can cause great disturbances in the physical world, even without a body.

SURE! The Bogeyman Demon will get you if you are not careful! I think someone has an irrational fear!

Oh! maybe it is a boggart or a specter; goblin, bugbear, goblin that eats naughty children (Folklore) © Oxford University Press, 2004

 

[createdtoworship]

SURE! The Bogeyman Demon will get you if you are not careful! I think someone has an irrational fear!

Oh! maybe it is a boggart or a specter; goblin, bugbear, goblin that eats naughty children (Folklore) © Oxford University Press, 2004

Even Michael, one of the most powerful of the angels, did not dare to accuse Satan, but rather said, "The Lord rebuke you" (Jude 1:9).

 

[he-man]

Even Michael, one of the most powerful of the angels, did not dare to accuse Satan, but rather said, "The Lord rebuke you" (Jude 1:9).

How about Casper?

 

[createdtoworship]

How about Casper?

you don't bring railing accusations against any spiritual being. we Respect them. Even casper.

Jude 1:9

King James Version (KJV)

9 Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

but that doesn't mean be afraid of them or run from them.

"resist the devil and He will flee"

 

[he-man]

you don't bring railing accusations against any spiritual being. we Respect them. Even casper.

I think rather you should FEAR God and forget the bogeyman theory.

Isa 54:16 Behold, I have created the smith that bloweth the coals in the fire, and that bringeth forth an instrument for his work; and I have created the destroyer to destroy.

2Sa 24:16 And when the angel stretched out his hand upon Jerusalem to destroy it, the LORD repented him of the evil, and said to the angel that destroyed the people, It is enough: stay now thine hand. And the angel of the LORD was by the threshingplace of Araunah the Jebusite.

Psa 35:5 Let them be as chaff before the wind: and let the angel of the LORD chase them.
6 Let their way be dark and slippery: and let the angel of the LORD persecute them.

Who destroyed Sodom and Gomorrha with His eternal Fire?

Jud 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

Gen 19:24 Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven;

Who could the amazing DESTROYER be?

Ep.Hebr.11.28 ; cf. ἐξολοθρεύω:—hence ὀλοθρ-ευτής , οῦ, ὁ, destroyer, IEp.Cor.10.10 :—fem. ὀλοθρ-εύτρια , gloss on λοιγίστρια, Hsch. : [Henry George Liddell. Robert Scott]

The destroying angel, who is called ὁ ὀλοθρεύων, [VWS]
Exo 12:23 For the LORD will pass through to smite the Egyptians; and when he seeth the blood upon the lintel, and on the two side posts, the LORD will pass over the door, and will not suffer the destroyer to come in unto your houses to smite

2Ki 19:35 And it came to pass that night, that the angel of the LORD went out, and smote in the camp of the Assyrians an hundred fourscore and five thousand: and when they arose early in the morning, behold, they were all dead corpses.

1Co 10:10 Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer.


Rev 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them