Physics and the Immortality of the Soul

[mzungu]

This is a way of teaching so people can understand what your saying. Jesus is considered the best teacher that ever was. Because his method of teaching was so effective. You have to use word pictures and something people can relate to. You should sign up for some teacher training classes because it can really help your communication skills to learn how to relate to people on terms they can understand. If no one understood Jesus, He would have been ignored. The problem was they understood all to well what He was saying.

The church we attended here was hit by a tornado. That was because there was a new housing project and the pastor did not want to expand the church to make room for the new people. After the tornado he had no choice but to rebuild the church.

If Jesus was such a good teacher then how can you justify the slaughter that was done in his name? How can you justify the hundreds of Christian sects that mostly hate each other? So many versions of the Bible etc.
As for the Tornado; You will always find an excuse so long as it suits your needs.

Personally I have no excuses to offer other than facts and reality. The Nazis justified their crimes so did the crusades, the inquisition, the witch burnings,etc. etc. The day we stop finding excuses in order to justify the inexcusable and start looking for answers then this planet stands a chance.

Religion even justified slavery for crying out loud.

 

[Norman321]

If Jesus was such a good teacher then how can you justify the slaughter that was done in his name?

What slaughter was that? Do you just make this stuff up as you go along? Jesus teaching was of non violence, to love your enemy and to do good. Perhaps you should study up on this stuff sometimes.

Religion even justified slavery for crying out loud.

First of all people in the Bible were not really slaves. They were servents. Moses actually gave them rights that they did not have. Moses was very much for the little guy.

They did not have food stamps and welfare back then. If you did not work, then you did not eat. People had large familys so that their children would take care of them when they got old.

 

[Lion Hearted Man]

First of all people in the Bible were not really slaves. They were servents. Moses actually gave them rights that they did not have. Moses was very much for the little guy.

They did not have food stamps and welfare back then. If you did not work, then you did not eat. People had large familys so that their children would take care of them when they got old.

What a blatant misrepresentation.

However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)


When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property. (Exodus 21:20-21 NAB)

 

[mzungu]

What slaughter was that? Do you just make this stuff up as you go along? Jesus teaching was of non violence, to love your enemy and to do good. Perhaps you should study up on this stuff sometimes.

First of all people in the Bible were not really slaves. They were servents. Moses actually gave them rights that they did not have. Moses was very much for the little guy.

They did not have food stamps and welfare back then. If you did not work, then you did not eat. People had large familys so that their children would take care of them when they got old.

The SAN tribe of Africa had large families, owned no slaves, shared everything, did not rape, steal, and conducted no wars. Everyone cared for everyone. I do not deny the goodness inherent in Jesus' teachings. I contest you claim that he was the best teacher. Good teachers bring good results and judging by Christian history it is hard to accept that Jesus brought good results.

As for the slave issue; The previous poster gave you the answer.

 

[Norman321]

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Slave
Slave: The institution of slavery was recognized, though not established, by the Mosaic law with a view to mitigate its hardship and to secure to every man his ordinary rights. I. Hebrew slaves. --

The circumstances under which a Hebrew might be reduced to servitude were-- (1) poverty; (2) the commission of theft; and (3) the exercise of paternal authority. In the first case, a man who had mortgaged his property, and was unable to support his family, might sell himself to another Hebrew, with a view both to obtain maintenance and perchance a surplus sufficient to redeem his property. (Leviticus 25:25,39) (2) The commission of theft rendered a person liable to servitude whenever restitution could not be made on the scale prescribed by the law. (Exodus 22:1,3) The thief was bound to work out the value of his restitution money in the service of him on whom the theft had been committed. (3) The exercise of paternal authority was limited to the sale of a daughter of tender age to be a maidservant, with the ulterior view of her becoming the concubine of the purchaser. (Exodus 21:7)
The servitude of a Hebrew might be terminated in three ways: (1) by the satisfaction or the remission of all claims against him; (2) by the recurrence of the year of jubilee, (Leviticus 25:40) and (3) the expiration of six years from the time that his servitude commenced. (Exodus 21:2; 15:12) (4) To the above modes of obtaining liberty the rabbinists added, as a fourth, the death of the master without leaving a son, there being no power of claiming the salve on the part of any heir except a son. If a servant did not desire to avail himself of the opportunity of leaving his service, he was to signify his intention in a formal manner before the judges (or more exactly at the place of judgment), and then the master was to take him to the door-post, and to bore his ear through with an awl, (Exodus 21:6) driving the awl into or "unto the door," as stated in (15:17) and thus fixing the servant to it. A servant who had submitted to this operation remained, according to the words of the law, a servant "forever." (Exodus 21:6) These words are however, interpreted by Josephus and by the rabbinsts as meaning until the year of jubilee.
The condition of a Hebrew servant was by no means intolerable. His master was admonished to treat him, not "as a bond-servant, but as an hired servant and as a sojourner," and, again, "not to rule over him with rigor." (Leviticus 25:39,40,43) At the termination of his servitude the master was enjoined not to "let him go away empty," but to remunerate him liberally out of his flock, his floor and his wine-press. (15:13,14) In the event of a Hebrew becoming the servant of a "stranger," meaning a non-Hebrew, the servitude could be terminated only in two ways, viz. by the arrival of the year of jubilee, or by the repayment to the master of the purchase money paid for the servant, after deducting a sum for the value of his services proportioned to the length of his servitude. (Leviticus 25:47-55) A Hebrew woman might enter into voluntary servitude on the score of poverty, and in this case she was entitled to her freedom after six years service, together with her usual gratuity at leaving, just as in the case of a man. (15:12,13) Thus far we have seen little that is objectionable in the condition of Hebrew servants. In respect to marriage there were some peculiarities which, to our ideas, would be regarded as hardships. A master might, for instance, give a wife to a Hebrew servant for the time of his servitude, the wife being in this case, it must be remarked, not only a slave but a non-Hebrew. Should he leave when his term had expired, his wife and children would remain the absolute property of the master. (Exodus 21:4,5) Again, a father might sell his young daughter to a Hebrew, with a view either of marrying her himself or of giving her to his son. (Exodus 21:7-9) It diminishes the apparent harshness of this proceeding if we look on the purchase money as in the light of a dowry given, as was not unusual, to the parents of the bride; still more, if we accept the rabbinical view that the consent of the maid was required before the marriage could take place. The position of a maiden thus sold by her father was subject to the following regulations: (1) She could not "go out as the men-servants do," i.e. she could not leave at the termination of six years, or in the year of jubilee, if her master was willing to fulfill the object for which he had purchased her. (2) Should he not wish to marry her, he should call upon her friends to procure her release by the repayment of the purchase money. (3) If he betrothed her to his son, he was bound to make such provision for her as he would for one of his own daughters. (4) If either he or his son, having married her, took a second wife, it should not be to the prejudice of the first. (5) If neither of the three first specified alternatives took place, the maid was entitled to immediate and gratuitous liberty. (Exodus 21:7-11) The custom of reducing Hebrews to servitude appears to have fallen into disuse subsequent to the Babylonish captivity. Vast numbers of Hebrews were reduced to slavery as war-captives at different periods by the Phoenicians, (Joel 3:6) the Philistines, (Joel 3:6; Amos 1:6), the Syrians, 1 Macc. 3:42; 2 Macc. 8:11, the Egyptians, Joseph Ant. xii. 2,3, and above all by the Romans. Joseph. B.C. vi. 9,3. II. Non-Hebrew slaves. --
The majority of non-Hebrew slaves were war-captives, either of the Canaanites who had survived the general extermination of their race under Joshua or such as were conquered from the other surrounding nations. (Numbers 31:26) ff. Besides these, many were obtained by purchase from foreign slave-dealers, (Leviticus 25:44,45) and others may have been resident foreigners who were reduced to this state by either poverty or crime. The children of slaves remained slaves, being the class described as "born in the house," (Genesis 14:14; 17:12; Ecclesiastes 2:7) and hence the number was likely to increase as time went on. The average value of a slave appears to have been thirty shekels. (Exodus 21:32)
That the slave might be manumitted appears from (Exodus 21:26,27; Leviticus 19:20)
The slave is described as the "possession" of his master, apparently with a special reference to the power which the latter had of disposing of him to his heirs, as he would any other article of personal property. (Leviticus 25:45,46) But, on the other hand, provision was made for the protection of his person. (Exodus 21:20; Leviticus 24:17,22) A minor personal injury, such as the loss of an eye or a tooth, was to be recompensed by giving the servant his liberty. (Exodus 21:26,27) The position of the slave in regard to religious privileges was favorable. He was to be circumcised, (Genesis 17:12) and hence was entitled to partake of the paschal sacrifice, (Exodus 12:44) as well as of the other religious festivals. (12:12,18; 16:11,14) The occupations of slaves were of a menial character, as implied in (Leviticus 25:39) consisting partly in the work of the house and partly in personal attendance on the master. It will be seen that the whole tendency of the Bible legislation was to mitigate slavery, making it little than hired service, and to abolish it, as indeed it was practically abolished among the Jews six hundred years before Christ.

 

[Norman321]

it is hard to accept that Jesus brought good results.

Do you mean you can not accept that people follow the teachings of Jesus? The people out in the world do not follow His teachings. Because they are not Christians. If you want to be a Christian, then you have to follow His teachings.

46 “But why do you call Me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and not do the things which I say?

 

[mzungu]

Do you mean you can not accept that people follow the teachings of Jesus? The people out in the world do not follow His teachings. Because they are not Christians. If you want to be a Christian, then you have to follow His teachings.

46 “But why do you call Me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and not do the things which I say?

Claiming to be a Christian and actually adhering to Christian Dogma are two different things.

First of all I agree that Jesus taught good things but he also warned that the scriptures (OT) must be upheld to the letter which means that witches must be put to death and disobedient children must be killed and slavery is allowed.

Most Christians do not adhere to a literal interpretation of the Bible simply because they see the Bible as a spiritual guide, and just want to live in peace and raise their families.

creationists on the other hand are ALSO not adhering to the bible but for reasons other than the above. Creationism is a multi billion dollar industry and the more fanatical the followers are the more money is generated!

 

[Norman321]

First of all I agree that Jesus taught good things but he also warned that the scriptures (OT) must be upheld to the letter which means that witches must be put to death and disobedient children must be killed and slavery is allowed.

Why do you think that Jesus said: “If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her.”

I believe we should follow the Bible to the letter. We are to judge our own heart. It is not our job to judge others. We either judge ourselves or if we do not judge ourselves then God will judge us.

"I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled." We are not to take communion unless we examine ourselves: "Examine Yourself - Therefore whoever eats this bread or drinks this cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of the body and blood of the..."

29 For he who eats and drinks in an unworthy manner eats and drinks judgment to himself, not discerning the Lord’s[c] body. 30 For this reason many are weak and sick among you, and many sleep. 31 For if we would judge ourselves, we would not be judged. 32 But when we are judged, we are chastened by the Lord, that we may not be condemned with the world.

Do you know what the word MANY means? Do you know what it means to be "weak and sick"?

 

[Norman321]

Creationism is a multi billion dollar industry and the more fanatical the followers are the more money is generated!

As far as I know, I have never made a penny off of serving God. I do not ever accept money. In fact I work and spend my own money to do what I can to help others.

 

[Non sequitur]

I wonder if in a few hundred years we will have people talking about the fortunate "servants" that worked on the plantations in the South?

Didn't they get free food and lodge?

 

[mzungu]

Why do you think that Jesus said: “If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her.”

How can you reconcile the above with this especially when Jesus tells us to strictly adhere to the scriptures :


Kill People Who Don't Listen to Priests
Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)

Kill Witches
You should not let a sorceress live. (Exodus 22:17 NAB)

Kill Homosexuals
"If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives." (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)

Kill Fortune-tellers

A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortune-teller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death. (Leviticus 20:27 NAB)

Death for Hitting Dad
Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death. (Exodus 21:15 NAB)

Death for Cursing Parents
1) If one curses his father or mother, his lamp will go out at the coming of darkness. (Proverbs 20:20 NAB)
2) All who curse their father or mother must be put to death. They are guilty of a capital offence. (Leviticus 20:9 NLT)

Death for Adultery
If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)

Death for Fornication
A priest's daughter who loses her honour by committing fornication and thereby dishonours her father also, shall be burned to death. (Leviticus 21:9 NAB)

Kill Non believers
They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)

Kill False Prophets
If a man still prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall say to him, "You shall not live, because you have spoken a lie in the name of the Lord." When he prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall thrust him through. (Zachariah 13:3 NAB)

Kill the Entire Town if One Person Worships Another God
Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him." (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)

Kill Women Who Are Not Virgins On Their Wedding Night
But if this charge is true (that she wasn't a virgin on her wedding night), and evidence of the girls virginity is not found, they shall bring the girl to the entrance of her fathers house and there her townsman shall stone her to death, because she committed a crime against Israel by her unchasteness in her father's house. Thus shall you purge the evil from your midst. (Deuteronomy 22:20-21 NAB)

Kill Followers of Other Religions.
1)If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)

2) Suppose a man or woman among you, in one of your towns that the LORD your God is giving you, has done evil in the sight of the LORD your God and has violated the covenant by serving other gods or by worshipping the sun, the moon, or any of the forces of heaven, which I have strictly forbidden. When you hear about it, investigate the matter thoroughly. If it is true that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, then that man or woman must be taken to the gates of the town and stoned to death. (Deuteronomy 17:2-5 NLT)

Death for Blasphemy
One day a man who had an Israelite mother and an Egyptian father got into a fight with one of the Israelite men. During the fight, this son of an Israelite woman blasphemed the LORD's name. So the man was brought to Moses for judgment. His mother's name was Shelomith. She was the daughter of Dibri of the tribe of Dan. They put the man in custody until the LORD's will in the matter should become clear. Then the LORD said to Moses, "Take the blasphemer outside the camp, and tell all those who heard him to lay their hands on his head. Then let the entire community stone him to death. Say to the people of Israel: Those who blaspheme God will suffer the consequences of their guilt and be punished. Anyone who blasphemes the LORD's name must be stoned to death by the whole community of Israel. Any Israelite or foreigner among you who blasphemes the LORD's name will surely die. (Leviticus 24:10-16 NLT)

Kill False Prophets
1) Suppose there are prophets among you, or those who have dreams about the future, and they promise you signs or miracles, and the predicted signs or miracles take place. If the prophets then say, 'Come, let us worship the gods of foreign nations,' do not listen to them. The LORD your God is testing you to see if you love him with all your heart and soul. Serve only the LORD your God and fear him alone. Obey his commands, listen to his voice, and cling to him. The false prophets or dreamers who try to lead you astray must be put to death, for they encourage rebellion against the LORD your God, who brought you out of slavery in the land of Egypt. Since they try to keep you from following the LORD your God, you must execute them to remove the evil from among you. (Deuteronomy 13:1-5 NLT)

2) But any prophet who claims to give a message from another god or who falsely claims to speak for me must die.' You may wonder, 'How will we know whether the prophecy is from the LORD or not?' If the prophet predicts something in the LORD's name and it does not happen, the LORD did not give the message. That prophet has spoken on his own and need not be feared. (Deuteronomy 18:20-22 NLT)

Infidels and Gays Should Die
So God let them go ahead and do whatever shameful things their hearts desired. As a result, they did vile and degrading things with each other's bodies. Instead of believing what they knew was the truth about God, they deliberately chose to believe lies. So they worshiped the things God made but not the Creator himself, who is to be praised forever. Amen. That is why God abandoned them to their shameful desires. Even the women turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in sex with each other. And the men, instead of having normal sexual relationships with women, burned with lust for each other. Men did shameful things with other men and, as a result, suffered within themselves the penalty they so richly deserved. When they refused to acknowledge God, he abandoned them to their evil minds and let them do things that should never be done. Their lives became full of every kind of wickedness, sin, greed, hate, envy, murder, fighting, deception, malicious behavior, and gossip. They are backstabbers, haters of God, insolent, proud, and boastful. They are forever inventing new ways of sinning and are disobedient to their parents. They refuse to understand, break their promises, and are heartless and unforgiving. They are fully aware of God's death penalty for those who do these things, yet they go right ahead and do them anyway. And, worse yet, they encourage others to do them, too. (Romans 1:24-32 NLT)

Kill Anyone who Approaches the Tabernacle
For the LORD had said to Moses, 'Exempt the tribe of Levi from the census; do not include them when you count the rest of the Israelites. You must put the Levites in charge of the Tabernacle of the Covenant, along with its furnishings and equipment. They must carry the Tabernacle and its equipment as you travel, and they must care for it and camp around it. Whenever the Tabernacle is moved, the Levites will take it down and set it up again. Anyone else who goes too near the Tabernacle will be executed.' (Numbers 1:48-51 NLT)

Kill People for Working on the Sabbath
The LORD then gave these further instructions to Moses: 'Tell the people of Israel to keep my Sabbath day, for the Sabbath is a sign of the covenant between me and you forever. It helps you to remember that I am the LORD, who makes you holy. Yes, keep the Sabbath day, for it is holy. Anyone who desecrates it must die; anyone who works on that day will be cut off from the community. Work six days only, but the seventh day must be a day of total rest. I repeat: Because the LORD considers it a holy day, anyone who works on the Sabbath must be put to death.' (Exodus 31:12-15 NLT)

 

[Greg1234]

How can you reconcile the above with this especially when Jesus tells us to strictly adhere to the scriptures :

What was said?

Kill People Who Don't Listen to Priests

Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)

Kill Witches
You should not let a sorceress live. (Exodus 22:17 NAB)

Kill Homosexuals
"If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives." (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)

Kill Fortune-tellers

A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortune-teller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death. (Leviticus 20:27 NAB)

Death for Hitting Dad
Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death. (Exodus 21:15 NAB)

Death for Cursing Parents
1) If one curses his father or mother, his lamp will go out at the coming of darkness. (Proverbs 20:20 NAB)
2) All who curse their father or mother must be put to death. They are guilty of a capital offence. (Leviticus 20:9 NLT)

Death for Adultery
If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)

Death for Fornication
A priest's daughter who loses her honour by committing fornication and thereby dishonours her father also, shall be burned to death. (Leviticus 21:9 NAB)

Kill Non believers
They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)

Kill False Prophets
If a man still prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall say to him, "You shall not live, because you have spoken a lie in the name of the Lord." When he prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall thrust him through. (Zachariah 13:3 NAB)

Kill the Entire Town if One Person Worships Another God
Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him." (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)

Kill Women Who Are Not Virgins On Their Wedding Night
But if this charge is true (that she wasn't a virgin on her wedding night), and evidence of the girls virginity is not found, they shall bring the girl to the entrance of her fathers house and there her townsman shall stone her to death, because she committed a crime against Israel by her unchasteness in her father's house. Thus shall you purge the evil from your midst. (Deuteronomy 22:20-21 NAB)

Kill Followers of Other Religions.
1)If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)

2) Suppose a man or woman among you, in one of your towns that the LORD your God is giving you, has done evil in the sight of the LORD your God and has violated the covenant by serving other gods or by worshipping the sun, the moon, or any of the forces of heaven, which I have strictly forbidden. When you hear about it, investigate the matter thoroughly. If it is true that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, then that man or woman must be taken to the gates of the town and stoned to death. (Deuteronomy 17:2-5 NLT)

Death for Blasphemy
One day a man who had an Israelite mother and an Egyptian father got into a fight with one of the Israelite men. During the fight, this son of an Israelite woman blasphemed the LORD's name. So the man was brought to Moses for judgment. His mother's name was Shelomith. She was the daughter of Dibri of the tribe of Dan. They put the man in custody until the LORD's will in the matter should become clear. Then the LORD said to Moses, "Take the blasphemer outside the camp, and tell all those who heard him to lay their hands on his head. Then let the entire community stone him to death. Say to the people of Israel: Those who blaspheme God will suffer the consequences of their guilt and be punished. Anyone who blasphemes the LORD's name must be stoned to death by the whole community of Israel. Any Israelite or foreigner among you who blasphemes the LORD's name will surely die. (Leviticus 24:10-16 NLT)

Kill False Prophets
1) Suppose there are prophets among you, or those who have dreams about the future, and they promise you signs or miracles, and the predicted signs or miracles take place. If the prophets then say, 'Come, let us worship the gods of foreign nations,' do not listen to them. The LORD your God is testing you to see if you love him with all your heart and soul. Serve only the LORD your God and fear him alone. Obey his commands, listen to his voice, and cling to him. The false prophets or dreamers who try to lead you astray must be put to death, for they encourage rebellion against the LORD your God, who brought you out of slavery in the land of Egypt. Since they try to keep you from following the LORD your God, you must execute them to remove the evil from among you. (Deuteronomy 13:1-5 NLT)

2) But any prophet who claims to give a message from another god or who falsely claims to speak for me must die.' You may wonder, 'How will we know whether the prophecy is from the LORD or not?' If the prophet predicts something in the LORD's name and it does not happen, the LORD did not give the message. That prophet has spoken on his own and need not be feared. (Deuteronomy 18:20-22 NLT)

Infidels and Gays Should Die
So God let them go ahead and do whatever shameful things their hearts desired. As a result, they did vile and degrading things with each other's bodies. Instead of believing what they knew was the truth about God, they deliberately chose to believe lies. So they worshiped the things God made but not the Creator himself, who is to be praised forever. Amen. That is why God abandoned them to their shameful desires. Even the women turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in sex with each other. And the men, instead of having normal sexual relationships with women, burned with lust for each other. Men did shameful things with other men and, as a result, suffered within themselves the penalty they so richly deserved. When they refused to acknowledge God, he abandoned them to their evil minds and let them do things that should never be done. Their lives became full of every kind of wickedness, sin, greed, hate, envy, murder, fighting, deception, malicious behavior, and gossip. They are backstabbers, haters of God, insolent, proud, and boastful. They are forever inventing new ways of sinning and are disobedient to their parents. They refuse to understand, break their promises, and are heartless and unforgiving. They are fully aware of God's death penalty for those who do these things, yet they go right ahead and do them anyway. And, worse yet, they encourage others to do them, too. (Romans 1:24-32 NLT)

Kill Anyone who Approaches the Tabernacle
For the LORD had said to Moses, 'Exempt the tribe of Levi from the census; do not include them when you count the rest of the Israelites. You must put the Levites in charge of the Tabernacle of the Covenant, along with its furnishings and equipment. They must carry the Tabernacle and its equipment as you travel, and they must care for it and camp around it. Whenever the Tabernacle is moved, the Levites will take it down and set it up again. Anyone else who goes too near the Tabernacle will be executed.' (Numbers 1:48-51 NLT)

Kill People for Working on the Sabbath
The LORD then gave these further instructions to Moses: 'Tell the people of Israel to keep my Sabbath day, for the Sabbath is a sign of the covenant between me and you forever. It helps you to remember that I am the LORD, who makes you holy. Yes, keep the Sabbath day, for it is holy. Anyone who desecrates it must die; anyone who works on that day will be cut off from the community. Work six days only, but the seventh day must be a day of total rest. I repeat: Because the LORD considers it a holy day, anyone who works on the Sabbath must be put to death.' (Exodus 31:12-15 NLT)

You forgot a few-

Death to those who are angry without just cause
"Ye have heard that it was said of them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:

But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire." (Matt 5:21-22)

Death to those who try to save their life
"Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it." (Lk 17:33)

 

[mzungu]

What was said?

You forgot a few-

Death to those who are angry without just cause
"Ye have heard that it was said of them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:

But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire." (Matt 5:21-22)

Death to those who try to save their life
"Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it." (Lk 17:33)

And your point being

 

[Ronald]

How can you reconcile the above with this especially when Jesus tells us to strictly adhere to the scriptures :

We do have a New Covenant by which we live. We are under grace NOT THE MOSAIC LAW (613 laws) They could not keep the law nor can we so Christ fulfilled it for us and the Old Covenant was replaced and therefore we are not required to keep those laws. Nevertheless, the closer they followed the law (since it was perfect), the cleaner and more holy a life they experieced. God's law was for their benefit; and it shows us what sin is. And the human tendency is to rebel against the law. Give a toddler 20 things to play with in a room and tell him he can play with everything EXCEPT THIS ONE THING ... DON'T EVEN TOUCH IT! Well, we all know that this child may obey for awhile but the temptation and urge will eventually overcome his will to restrain himself. We don't want to be told NO, DON'T DO IT! Naturally, human nature rebels against authority -- we are born that way. We grow out of the terrible two's but the rebelliousness continues in other areas.
So this whole list here (with the exception of Romans chapter one, which is just addressing the state of sinful man), is not applicable to our faith and way of life. He gave us only two commandments to live by: Love God and Love your neighbor.

Mzungu's list the OT laws & judgements:
Kill People Who Don't Listen to Priests
Kill Witches
Kill Homosexuals
Kill Fortune-tellers
Death for Hitting Dad
Death for Adultery
Death for Fornication
Kill Non believers
Kill False Prophets
Kill the Entire Town if One Person Worships Another God
Kill Women Who Are Not Virgins On Their Wedding Night
Kill Followers of Other Religions.
Death for Blasphemy
Kill False Prophets
Infidels and Gays Should Die
Kill Anyone who Approaches the Tabernacle
Kill People for Working on the Sabbath

We don't judge people in such a way, God will when they die. So, in a sense, if you are not "in Christ", meaning you do not have forgiveness for your sins in that list above by that time, you will be judged by the law and you will be destroyed, both soul and body in the Lake of Fire.

 

[Jro]

We do have a New Covenant by which we live. We are under grace NOT THE MOSAIC LAW (613 laws) They could not keep the law nor can we so Christ fulfilled for us. So this whole list here with the exception of Romans is not applicable to our faith and way. He gave us only two commandments to live by: Love God and Love your neighbor.

We don't judge people in such a way, God will when they die. So, in a sense, if you are not "in Christ", meaning you do not have forgiveness for your sins in that list above by that time, you will be judged by the law and you will be destroyed, both soul and body in the Lake of Fire.

God is love y'all.

 

[Norman321]

How can you reconcile the above with this especially when Jesus tells us to strictly adhere to the scriptures :

We do not have a theocracy today. In this country we have a separation between church and state. So it is not the job of the church to enforce the law, it is the job of the government.

The law then becomes an object lesson to show that the wages of sin is death. Atheists do not have a problem with this. They know they are going to die. They know that they will not receive eternal life.

I would rather live under God's law rather then man's law. But you seem to indicate that you prefer man's law.

Of course there is the teaching of law vs grace. We do currently live in the age of grace.

 

[CaliforniaSun]

We do have a New Covenant by which we live. We are under grace NOT THE MOSAIC LAW (613 laws) They could not keep the law nor can we so Christ fulfilled it for us and the Old Covenant was replaced and therefore we are not required to keep those laws. Nevertheless, the closer they followed the law (since it was perfect), the cleaner and more holy a life they experieced. God's law was for their benefit; and it shows us what sin is. And the human tendency is to rebel against the law. Give a toddler 20 things to play with in a room and tell him he can play with everything EXCEPT THIS ONE THING ... DON'T EVEN TOUGH IT! Well, we all know that this child may obey for awhile but the temptation and urge will eventually overcome his will to restrain himself. We don't want to be told NO, DON'T DO IT! Naturally, human nature rebels against authority -- we are born that way. We grow out of the terrible two's but the rebelliousness continues in other areas.
So this whole list here (with the exception of Romans chapter one, which is just addressing the state of sinful man), is not applicable to our faith and way of life. He gave us only two commandments to live by: Love God and Love your neighbor.

We don't judge people in such a way, God will when they die. So, in a sense, if you are not "in Christ", meaning you do not have forgiveness for your sins in that list above by that time, you will be judged by the law and you will be destroyed, both soul and body in the Lake of Fire.

So, it took your god 4,000 years to figure out that 613 laws were 611 too many, and left you with just two. So far it's been 2,000 years and we can't even follow these two. When does he figure this out and give us an easy one?

 

[Davian]

We do have a New Covenant by which we live. We are under grace NOT THE MOSAIC LAW (613 laws) They could not keep the law nor can we so Christ fulfilled for us. So this whole list here with the exception of Romans is not applicable to our faith and way. He gave us only two commandments to live by: Love God and Love your neighbor.

We don't judge people in such a way, God will when they die. So, in a sense, if you are not "in Christ", meaning you do not have forgiveness for your sins in that list above by that time, you will be judged by the law and you will be destroyed, both soul and body in the Lake of Fire.

God is love y'all.

Love indeed.

I'm so glad that Ronald takes the time to preach at us.

 

[CaliforniaSun]

Love indeed.

I'm so glad that Ronald takes the time to preach at us.

Hey, if they turn out to be right, and us wrong, you're buying the first round.

 

[Greg1234]

So, it took your god 4,000 years to figure out that 613 laws were 611 too many, and left you with just two. So far it's been 2,000 years and we can't even follow these two. When does he figure this out and give us an easy one?

They've always hinged on those two laws.