Husband hasn't worked in more than 5 years. =(

[citizenthom]

Please do not presume to put words in my mouth or interpret my own situation to answer in such a manner in order to satisfy whatever bad events have happened in your own life.

I am not putting words in your mouth: I am simply trying to tell you what a man hears when his wife utters the words you've said you used. I'm telling you, all the nice things and "encouragement" in the world does not mask the bottom line you laid out there to a man.

My wife has never delivered the ultimatum you delivered, so no, I am not speaking from "bad events in my own life"; I am just trying to listen to what you are saying with a man's ears and let you know what gets heard most clearly. I have struggled with a long and fruitless job search, as have many men here, and I can speak to (and earlier did speak to) a man's emotional state after years of failure in that area.

I am not attacking what you said/did because I do not think you knew how deeply what you said would cut a man. But that's why I am trying to communicate it to you: not to berate you but to inform you.

 

[LovebirdsFlying]

In all fairness, Miz, you did say that "seeing him with a job is what I need above all things from him at this point." Not that he puts honest effort into the search, but that he succeeds in landing one. If this were said to me, I too would interpret it to mean, "If you knock yourself out looking for a job but you don't get hired, too bad for you, I'm leaving anyway. It's too late. You blew it." That message in my head would drown out every "I love you" ever uttered. And I'm not even a man.

It has been my experience (sorry Thom, not meaning to insult you) that Thom can come across as abrasive sometimes in his posting style, and I understand why you took umbrage, but it could be that we don't see facial expression or tone of voice via the internet. In this case I entirely see both sides of the disagreement.

 

[sdmsanjose]

Mizhop

If your husband is in “a man's emotional state after years of failure in that area” or if he just prefers to go to college and not work, I think your actions will help him in either case. . It is hard for me to believe that he could not find anything in 5 years.

He is capable of working and has not tried hard enough to get work at this point. You giving him consequences for his actions is a form of love. It is obvious that it is very hard on you to be put in the position of showing your husband tough love. I think your tough love may push him to break out of his inertia.

No one needs to question your love for this man or your method of trying to help your husband and yourself. Sometimes it takes a strong action by a loved one to get a person to overcome his obstacles. I am a man and I admire a woman like you!

Stan

 

[dallasapple]

I remember when I was in college and I was trying to apply for a truck unloader job at a grocery store and they said that was a promoted position within the grocers union and that I had to be a bag boy, sorry not going to bag groceries as a 3rd year chemical engineering major. They need to let mentally handicaped people bag groceries and take your order at mcdonalds and let able bodied people unload trucks or stock or work in the back ground. I eventually found a job at a liquor store and while its still clerking it felt more respectable, I felt like I was able to connect with the clientell much better than at some place like mcdonalds.

Well I think thats the point..YOU protected your ego/integrity by finding a job "eventually" that was accpetable to you that you didnt feel undiginified and could maintian your self respect in ..

You didnt take on the attitude of "my intelligence supercedes the skills required to clerk at a liquor store..Im far above THAT position ..ta ta!"

Dallas

 

[dallasapple]

In all fairness, Miz, you did say that "seeing him with a job is what I need above all things from him at this point." Not that he puts honest effort into the search, but that he succeeds in landing one. If this were said to me, I too would interpret it to mean, "If you knock yourself out looking for a job but you don't get hired, too bad for you, I'm leaving anyway. It's too late. You blew it." That message in my head would drown out every "I love you" ever uttered. And I'm not even a man.

It has been my experience (sorry Thom, not meaning to insult you) that Thom can come across as abrasive sometimes in his posting style, and I understand why you took umbrage, but it could be that we don't see facial expression or tone of voice via the internet. In this case I entirely see both sides of the disagreement.

Here is the thing..maybe im that bad of a judge of character..I hardly see this woman seriously asking him to attempt at an unattainable/unreasonable goal then to abandon him for failing...

She is asking him to get a JOB part time even if only for 10 hours a WEEK..If he makes a sincere effort ..and can PROVE its litterally not due to his lack of effort I don't see her as saying ..too bad you're on your own..

And I think the point is ..if he "knocks himself out" looking for a job he WILL GET ONE...

Lovebird your situation is different..you have RESTRICTIONS physically due to health problems..Someone going in for an interview who is using a CANE is going to right off the bat probably face MORE obsticals and have a more difficult time convincing a company they are "able" to work..So yeah..you would I would think feel uncared for..or unloved if that ultimatum was put on you ...

Her husband unless she has deliberately left that part out..is NOT physically or mentally challenged..

I don't know why some people cant believe..its POSSIBLE he just has gotten complacent..and comfortable just not working..and is content to just do without some things..rather than have to work..I think his suggestion of SELLING some of his personal property and it sounds like things that are "meaningful" to him rather than get a JOB is very telling..Almost sounds like he has dug his heals in if you ask me..Like he will do anything to avoid having to get a JOB>

I dont understand how this OP's husband ended up being compared to people who have to walk with a cane..or people who have debilitating CLINICAL depression ..He could possibly be just HAPPY to stay HOME while she works..even if that means SHE SUFFERS..

Dallas

 

[c1ners]

I don't understand how it can be considered okay for a man to not work and not take care of his family for five years, but it's not okay for the wife to feel resentment from it.

IMO, the man is supposed to take care of the family. He is the one who is supposed to get up each morning and go to work. Wouldn't it be a much bigger blow to his ego to know that it's his wife doing what He is supposed to be doing?

This is how I see it: A man loses his job. A woman should be loving and encouraging to him for a time. A TIME! Not forever! Six months top and that's pushing it. After that he needs to get his butt off the couch and start looking for a way to support his family and stop depending on her to do it all.

I'm sorry, but that's just wrong. It's wrong of him to make his wife go to work everyday and come home to take care of him at night while he does nothing to help her.

If I were her I'd be giving him ultimatums too. Allowing him to continue what he is doing is not doing him any good. No one should be allowed to take advantage of another human being. God made us all to work and learn. He may be learning, but he also needs to working and helping to support his family.

That's my opinion, and I'm sticking to it.

 

[citizenthom]

c1ners, why do you think "loving and encouraging him" and his "getting off the couch and getting a job" are and either/or proposition? That's what is killing me in this thread: the idea that being nice to your spouse is somehow keeping him "on the couch." Or more appropriately, the idea that threatening divorce is going to get him off the couch.

I'd like to hear from some ladies who have improved their husbands' worth ethic by threatening divorce. Problem is they don't exist.

 

[LovebirdsFlying]

DA: I'll concede to you. You have your point. Assuming the OP's husband has no disabilities, his case and mine are not parallel. As for the ultimatum, I was challenging the wording. "Seeing him with a job" is the most important thing. Not "seeing him do his honest best." It's entirely probable that she did NOT mean she would leave him anyway if he did his best but was not hired before the deadline she set, but the wording left open that impression, and it could be that her husband thinks so. I have no way of knowing.

On encouragement, I saw a wife give an excellent example of it when her husband lost his job. "You'll land on your feet. You always do." Things like that go much further, in my experience, than, "Oh, no, you blew it!" Perhaps the OP can begin telling her husband, when he leaves every day for his job search, that she has faith he will "land on his feet." He'll start the day feeling good about himself.

 

[dallasapple]

c1ners, why do you think "loving and encouraging him" and his "getting off the couch and getting a job" are and either/or proposition? That's what is killing me in this thread: the idea that being nice to your spouse is somehow keeping him "on the couch." Or more appropriately, the idea that threatening divorce is going to get him off the couch.

I'd like to hear from some ladies who have improved their husbands' worth ethic by threatening divorce. Problem is they don't exist.

I did...not only did I do that..I pressured him relentlessly to start his own business..I put my (yes MY) money where my mouth was and invested with LARGE sums of money from my IRA that I held for 12 years in Microsoft and Intel..In the meantime he got a job at my insistance at Target and he HATED it so bad he found a better job..(yes a job that didnt humiliate him) and from that company which folded he picked up a client..that is still to this day regular income for us TWELVE years later in our OWN business which has supported us nicely again for over a decade..

NONE of this he was doing without MY nagging Thom..in FACT he flat out said ALL ther reasons it was a bad idea to start our own company including it woudl fail...So for the first 10 years of our marriage he had 4 jbos..with as long as a year solid of unemplyent..then the NEXT 12 years becaue of MY threats???And "begrudginaly" doing what I suggested?Solid non stop income..with a LOT of independence in fact very minimal workign hours..

So they do EXIST Thom and you have just met one.

Dallas

 

[c1ners]

quote=citizenthom;57679864]c1ners, why do you think "loving and encouraging him" and his "getting off the couch and getting a job" are and either/or proposition? That's what is killing me in this thread: the idea that being nice to your spouse is somehow keeping him "on the couch." Or more appropriately, the idea that threatening divorce is going to get him off the couch.

I'd like to hear from some ladies who have improved their husbands' worth ethic by threatening divorce. Problem is they don't exist.[/quote]

Well, after five years Tom, it's about time she give him something other than love and encouragement. Going to school is a good thing, but when push come to shove, he needs to get out there and support his family. School doesn't pay the bills and school isn't going to keep a roof over his head. Neither is it going to keep his wife from losing her sanity from worrying about all of the above.

The way that I see it is that the OP has been supportive of her husband for many years. At this moment in life they are about to lose their home and everything they hold dear because they are both out of work. She has loved him enough for all the years to allow him his dream of going to school. It's his turn to show her that he loves her by going out and getting a job so that she can once again have the stability that she's given him all this time.

I'm not really advocating divorce. But he does need an ultimatum. Do I sound bitter?

 

[mizhop]

It's been a year since I posted this thread, and another year with my husband jobless. I reread a lot of the posts that were made last year, and thank those of you that posted their experiences and thoughts, they helped me think things through a little better.

We're now up to 6+ years of no work. Wait, I amend that with the two weeks he did manage to find work last summer before he got fired for a disagreement with the boss. It's a whole 'nother summer in front of us, and the prospects again look dim. As a refresher, we have no kids, only dogs.

I send links with dozens of places to apply, and I do see him working at it and taking his resume places, but my hopes are in the toilet. For all I know he's tossing those resume's I print out in that same toilet. I should feel ashamed of my little faith in him, but given past experience.... it's actually bordering on disgust, and I *AM* ashamed of that.

I've had to get back on medication again because I've thought way too much about offing myself the last few months (ways, places, methods, etc.), though I honestly don't think I could do it. It was just the constant thinking about it that was unnerving. My shrink thinks I'm bipolar, and so I'm now on meds that make me tired all the time, but we're working on that.
We've had several discussions about all of this, but nothing has changed. As a matter of fact, he's out there eating popcorn and watching a movie right now.

All I can think now is that he's got one more year of school before he gets his bachelors degree, and part of that I'm going to end up paying out of pocket unless he (ha ha) finds a job and pays to finish up his degree. One more year, and that's it for me, I've decided. It'll be this time next year, come to think of it. He's going to have to find a job then, even if it's out of state and we have to move. There's a job in his future, or it's the end, one way or another. I can't go on like this anymore.

In the nearer future, it looks like I may be in the running for a weekends off job at work, so at least I'll be able to go back to church again, and maybe gain some strength and direction there.

Thanks again for allowing me to vent, and for your much needed prayers.

 

[LinkH]

I have been in grad school for about 5 years myself, but I have worked, mostly part-time, for much of that time, with a full-time summer job one summer. My wife doesn't work outside the home either either, but God is gracious. I've been blessed with another full-time summer job coming up here in a few days; praise God. I can relate to the frustration of the lack of income that goes along with being in school. I believe the Lord directed me to grad school, and my wife knew what she was getting in to. We've had a few people give us money at a certain times when it really helped. An old friend even delivered a thousand dollars to us before Christmas one year.

I was thinking several things when I read that. A man not being willing to work and provide for his own-- well that's a really, really bad thing. So based on what you said, it sounds like your husband is definitely making a mistake. On the other hand, even if your husband sins, you still have to do what is right before the Lord. If I were you, I don't think I would leave over this. I'd probably go the route of having an 'intervention' with the leaders and men from church involved if he goes to church.

If he's 50, doesn't he have some marketable job skills that pay well, or did he just flip burgers or do retail sales way back when? I'm also wondering what the return on investment is of going back just for an associates or even a bachelors at 50 years old. If its a degree in a high paying field like Finance, or maybe something like Chemistry or Engineer, maybe. But an Associates? What is that going to pay compared to lost wages and the cost of tuition? I don't think an Associates is enough to get a pay increase. If he had a Bachelor's would it may for itself? I guess he could work until he is 80 and let it pay for itself. If he holds out another 10 years, some states give seniors free tuition.

There are lots of short courses you can do to be qualified to do something to increase your income. There are certifications in things like project management, mortgage brokering, real estate sales, real estate appraisal, medical coding, and all kinds of things. At age 50, I don't know if a degree makes sense unless you are rich and just can afford to go to school for self-enrichment. My opinion about education has changed over time. I don't think it makes much sense just to go to college to be education these days. If you can read, you can educate yourself with a bit of determination. At his age, he should have some kind of plan related to how his education should increase his income. If he wanted self-enrichment, getting an associates is something. He can be happy with his accomplishment now and go get a job.

Btw, I read in a magazine recently that oil companies in South Dakata needed more workers than they could find. That may be something to look into for someone without a college degree.

 

[mizhop]

Thank you for the reply LinkH. In quick reply to your questions before I head for bed: I'm the Lutheran, he kept talking like he wanted to go to church, but has not on his own while I'm at work.

He actually has more skills going for him than I do; he was a licensed plumber, has a CDL-A license and can do carpentry and landscaping. He's going to have a Bachelors in Arts, Secondary Education to be a teacher this next spring. If it weren't for the state of IL veterans grant paying for his education, it would not be happening at all. I'm still paying for his books, and may have to pay for his last semester of school because he's over on some of his credits with the grant program.

Yes, there are lots of options to him, but he's not looking for them. His family is here, and he does not want to move. This is what I'm afraid of, that he'll get his bachelors, and if he cannot find a teaching job here, he'll continue to stagnate until I can't take any more. =(

 

[SearchingStudent]

Has your husband been evaluated for Asperger's, ADHD, depression? 5+ years of not really trying to find work even with the qualifications he has is telling me this goes beyond just being lazy.

He needs to see a good mental health professional and have a full eval done.

 

[JaneFW]

It's been a year since I posted this thread, and another year with my husband jobless. I reread a lot of the posts that were made last year, and thank those of you that posted their experiences and thoughts, they helped me think things through a little better.

We're now up to 6+ years of no work. Wait, I amend that with the two weeks he did manage to find work last summer before he got fired for a disagreement with the boss. It's a whole 'nother summer in front of us, and the prospects again look dim. As a refresher, we have no kids, only dogs.

I send links with dozens of places to apply, and I do see him working at it and taking his resume places, but my hopes are in the toilet. For all I know he's tossing those resume's I print out in that same toilet. I should feel ashamed of my little faith in him, but given past experience.... it's actually bordering on disgust, and I *AM* ashamed of that.

I've had to get back on medication again because I've thought way too much about offing myself the last few months (ways, places, methods, etc.), though I honestly don't think I could do it. It was just the constant thinking about it that was unnerving. My shrink thinks I'm bipolar, and so I'm now on meds that make me tired all the time, but we're working on that.
We've had several discussions about all of this, but nothing has changed. As a matter of fact, he's out there eating popcorn and watching a movie right now.

All I can think now is that he's got one more year of school before he gets his bachelors degree, and part of that I'm going to end up paying out of pocket unless he (ha ha) finds a job and pays to finish up his degree. One more year, and that's it for me, I've decided. It'll be this time next year, come to think of it. He's going to have to find a job then, even if it's out of state and we have to move. There's a job in his future, or it's the end, one way or another. I can't go on like this anymore.

In the nearer future, it looks like I may be in the running for a weekends off job at work, so at least I'll be able to go back to church again, and maybe gain some strength and direction there.

Thanks again for allowing me to vent, and for your much needed prayers.

It was interesting to read back through this thread. I saw where I posted and my husband had just started a new job after years of being at home, being SAHD etc., but he quit that job after 2 months and has now been home for 9 months.

I just want to ask - does he make his time at home worthwhile? Is he taking care of the home? I would not mind so much my husband being home - and him staying at home permanently - if only he took care of the house, the yard, and followed through on projects that we have had on the back burner for years. And I literally mean years. We are supposed to put our house on the market next year, but I don't know how we will do that if we don't get it looking better than it looks now! If your husband can do plumbing and landscaping and all of this, does he take care of that for your home? Has he any interest in working for himself. Plumbers can make a mint, so it surprises me that he is focused on the college degree, other than it's a way to stave off actually working.

Did he ever get a physical and get blood work done? Really, try to persuade him to do this. My h has finally had enough of his lethargy and went to the doctor for a physical. We are still waiting for results.

I wish I had advice for you, but you have my prayers.

 

[JaneFW]

BTW, my husband has already told me that I will be working until I am 67, so cool, only 17 years to go. <big eye roll>

 

[citizenthom]

BTW, my husband has already told me that I will be working until I am 67, so cool, only 17 years to go. <big eye roll>

Is that all? Because nowadays most people can expect to have to work until they are dead.

 

[JaneFW]

Is that all? Because nowadays most people can expect to have to work until they are dead.

Well maybe I'll die at my desk at 65. Something to look forward to.

And if that's what they "expect", then they didn't pay much attention to taking care of their future needs, and it's a shame that they didn't do that, because it's not a necessity if people take smart steps.

 

[LinkH]

If he's a plumber, he could start start his own small business. My Dad's an electrician. When a building is done, most of the electricians are out of work for a while unless the economy is booming. He started a repair business one time when he was out of work when I was a teenager. I don't think it paid as well as his 'regular job'-- either that or he just didn't like it as much because he went back to his regular commercial construction work when he had an opportunity.

My Dad put fliers on (not in) people's mailboxes to get the word out.

 

[BigDaddy4]

Thank you for the reply LinkH. In quick reply to your questions before I head for bed: I'm the Lutheran, he kept talking like he wanted to go to church, but has not on his own while I'm at work.

He actually has more skills going for him than I do; he was a licensed plumber, has a CDL-A license and can do carpentry and landscaping. He's going to have a Bachelors in Arts, Secondary Education to be a teacher this next spring. If it weren't for the state of IL veterans grant paying for his education, it would not be happening at all. I'm still paying for his books, and may have to pay for his last semester of school because he's over on some of his credits with the grant program.

Yes, there are lots of options to him, but he's not looking for them. His family is here, and he does not want to move. This is what I'm afraid of, that he'll get his bachelors, and if he cannot find a teaching job here, he'll continue to stagnate until I can't take any more. =(

If he does get his teaching degree, but does not find a job, he can always sign up to substitute teach. I did that years ago when I couldn't find a teaching job either. If he's peculiar about a certain district, or districts, in your area, this is a great way to get to know other teachers and administrators as well as gain valuable classroom experience.