what messianic prophecies where not fulfilled by jesus?

[LoAmmi]

Then you might want to look into the Baha'i Faith (another Abrahamic religion, BTW) given that it teaches that the Christ Spirit already returned about a century and a half ago with the new name both the Jewish and Christian scriptures promised!

I do not believe the Jewish scriptures do promise this at all. I have seen the verse, it is not talking about the messiah. If I am not convinced of Christianity or Islam, I am almost certain I am not going to be convinced of a religion that claims to be a succession from those two.

Also, if you are correct this "new spirit" still did not finish the job, so it still does not prove anything.

 

[louisealex]

I understand that, I am pretty sure I satressed it because it was one of the criterias. The stuff about the time span was to show that these things are coming true in a longer timescale for us, but the blink of an eye for God. (metaphorically speaking) There seemed to be very few that hadn't already come true.

Louise

 

[LoAmmi]

There seemed to be very few that hadn't already come true.

Really? From where I sit, very few of them have come true. None of the ones that are exclusive and exhaustive meaning that they can only happen once and never again have happened. That is pretty big.

 

[dfw69]

Really? From where I sit, very few of them have come true. None of the ones that are exclusive and exhaustive meaning that they can only happen once and never again have happened. That is pretty big.

which are to happen once and never again?

 

[LoAmmi]

which are to happen once and never again?

Have we not been through this?

World Peace
Rebuilding of the Temple
All know HaShem (no missionaries needed)
All Jews reside within Israel

Those are some of the ones that can happen once and no more.

 

[louisealex]

First of all maybe should say where come from. I am New Ager. I believe that we are entering the New Age. It probably won't be as fast as I want it to be, but I am still living trapped within the confines of an ego. I have help through oneness blessings and feel a connection with the divine, and lots of wonderful mystical things happen.

All Jews live in Israel? I don't know how literally you want to push this one. But for me it has happened. That word 'All' is very prescriptive.

No missionaries will be needed fr when we are all enlightened and know the God within ourselves there will be know need for missionaries.

Are you not rebuilding the temple yet? Who is stopping you?

World Peace will come when the majority are enlightened.

Jesus has fulfilled a lot of the others. These are coming. World peace doesn't come because people want it. It comes because the majority of people no longer have ego's and live in Godhead. Oneness with God, beyond good and evil.

I am not a christian but know that at the very basic level his message is the correct one. LOVE. It is not without reason that the Nag Hammad texts and the other gospels, the Mary Magdalen and Judas gospels have turned up and are translated for these amazing magical times. Up to now the other gospels, the Roman chosen gospels, speak of love, but not really a way to feel love. Believe in Christ, that helps, but there is no personal understanding. With the other words of Christ we see a much deeper understanding. That God is within us. A deeper understanding that connects with Hindu beliefs and understandings. There are prphecies that Islam will be the last religion on the planet. (That is the God of Israel) My personal belief on that one is because it might take them the longest to get enlightened, because of dogmatism. Who knows, who cares. For some reason the Jewish people still don't want to accept their messiah. Even though he has flowered the largest religion of the world.

Louise

 

[LoAmmi]

I have shown where these come from a few times on this thread. If you go back to the beginning there is a list of the prophecies. You want to think they have happened that is your interpretation. Do not expect me to just go along because someone spoke of love. Speaking of love is not a prophecy to identify the Messiah. Would you really like a discussion about exactly why popularity does not make truth?

 

[someguy14]

there is a list of the prophecies.

Post #7

 

[someguy14]

The book of Isaiah really is a wonderful book.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I understand that, I am pretty sure I satressed it because it was one of the criterias. The stuff about the time span was to show that these things are coming true in a longer timescale for us, but the blink of an eye for God. (metaphorically speaking) There seemed to be very few that hadn't already come true.

Louise

Interesting post.
How is biblical time measured in both the OT and NT? This time, times and half time is rather interesting, shown in both Daniel and Revelation

http://www.christianforums.com/t7618390-8/#post59367391
The measurement of time, times, and half a time.

1260 days is equal to 42 mths, which is 3 1/2 yrs, which is "time, times, and half a time. This is only possible if the 1260 days is divided by 360 days. 360 days times 3 1/2 yrs equals 1260 days which is 42 mths.

How much days did Israel spend in the wilderness post exodus from Egypt? 42 yrs! How long did Christ preach before his crucifixtion? 3 1/2 yrs! How long is the covenant confirmed? 3 1/2 yrs. How long does the abomination of desolation stand? 1290 days, which is 1 mth longer than 1260 days. The heavenly sanctuary is cleansed 1 1/2 month later, the 1335th day/year. They all represent a time when evil triumphed, 3 1/2 days/years, 42 months/yrs, and 1260 days/years!

.....

 

[louisealex]

The only time scale I can go by is the one that God ids definitely not trapped in an orbit around our sun, indeed that our sun is not the only sun either, a day, a year these are our measurements. Who knows the Divines time scale, it is beyond our understanding I imagine. For God created time and therefore stands outside of time.

I have to go but will go to the list and write for each one my opinion. I did do it before but I felt it came across pedantic and a little rude. But I don't mind doing it again. I have to go now, so it will have to be later today. : ) But of course everything I write is in terms of enlightenment. If anyone would like to read the writings of an enlightened person here is a blog. She was not particularly religious. She became enlightened about 6 months ago. Since I am new to here I can't put on links but please google the awakened dreamer.

Louise

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

But of course everything I write is in terms of enlightenment. If anyone would like to read the writings of an enlightened person here is a blog. She was not particularly religious. She became enlightened about 6 months ago. Since I am new to here I can't put on links but please google the awakened dreamer.

Louise

Here ya go

The Awakened Dreamer | Dispatches from Beyond the Dream


.......

 

[LoAmmi]

The only time scale I can go by is the one that God ids definitely not trapped in an orbit around our sun, indeed that our sun is not the only sun either, a day, a year these are our measurements. Who knows the Divines time scale, it is beyond our understanding I imagine. For God created time and therefore stands outside of time.

I do not write of a timescale or anything like that. The verses I look to are clear. It is not about time, it is about it happening. Basically, UNTIL it happens, I cannot say someone is or is not the messiah.

I would also like to address the following:

For some reason the Jewish people still don't want to accept their messiah.

It is not a desire. In fact, I would imagine many of us would love to accept the messiah. However, they have to accomplish the task. Your statement is the exact same to me as this:

"For some reason, Americans still don't want to accept John McCain as their president"

He did not win the election. He is not president. That does not remove the possibility of him becoming president in the future. If he were to die, and you were told it is ok, he will be coming back to become president in the future, would you put a lot of stock in that?

 

[LoAmmi]

But of course everything I write is in terms of enlightenment. If anyone would like to read the writings of an enlightened person here is a blog. She was not particularly religious. She became enlightened about 6 months ago. Since I am new to here I can't put on links but please google the awakened dreamer.

To be honest, I do not really care for the whole "enlightenment" stuff. Mysticism and the like are about as interesting to me as paint drying on a wall.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

To be honest, I do not really care for the whole "enlightenment" stuff. Mysticism and the like are about as interesting to me as paint drying on a wall.

Or whitewashing

Search for 'Genesis 1:1' in the version

NKJV) Deuteronomy 27:2 "And it shall be, on the day when you cross over the Jordan to the land which the LORD your God is giving you, that you shall set up for yourselves large stones, and whitewash them with lime.
4 "Therefore it shall be, when you have crossed over the Jordan, [that] on Mount Ebal you shall set up these stones, which I command you today, and you shall whitewash them with lime.

NKJV) Matthew 23:27 "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites!
For you are like whitewashed tombs which indeed appear beautiful outwardly, but inside are full of dead [men's] bones and all uncleanness.

NKJV) Acts 23:3 Then Paul said to him, "God will strike you, [you] whitewashed wall!
For you sit to judge me according to the law, and do you command me to be struck contrary to the law?"

 

[louisealex]

Isaiah 1:26: "And I will restore your judges as at first and your counsellors as in the beginning; afterwards you shall be called City of Righteousness, Faithful City." Some Jews[4] interpret this to mean that the Sanhedrin will be re-established."(Isaiah 1:26)

We call Jerusalem the cradle of faith. You have your counsellors and your judges.

Once he is King, leaders of other nations will look to him for guidance. (Isaiah 2:4)

certainly true

The whole world will worship the One God of Israel (Isaiah 2:11-17)

Now here we have a small problem. There is only one God, so this idea of the one god being the god of Israel is odd, for me. What about the one god of the Hindu's or other monothiastic religions. The great spirit of the native americans. My God is one god so is therefore the same God. If it means will worship the one god like you do then why not say it. What about the one god as you do? It often happens in prophecies that they don't take into consideration what was not known about at the time of writing.

He will be descended from King David (Isaiah 11:1) via Solomon (1 Chronicles 22:8-10, 2 Chronicles 7:18)

Since Jesus was a man who knows about that one.

The "spirit of the Lord" will be upon him, and he will have a "fear of God" (Isaiah 11:2)

Touch who?

Evil and tyranny will not be able to stand before his leadership (Isaiah 11:4)

That is one of those one's that is gradually coming : )

Knowledge of God will fill the world (Isaiah 11:9)

Well that's happened already, but again...increasing

He will include and attract people from all cultures and nations (Isaiah 11:10)

done

All Israelites will be returned to their homeland (Isaiah 11:12)

All those that want to have

Death will be swallowed up forever (Isaiah 25:8)

Death will be swallowed up forever, but you have to understand enlightenment for that to make sense

There will be no more hunger or illness, and death will cease (Isaiah 25:8)

Again, understanding enlightenment

All of the dead will rise again (Isaiah 26:19)

?

The Jewish people will experience eternal joy and gladness (Isaiah 51:11)

That will be the day!

He will be a messenger of peace (Isaiah 52:7)

done

Nations will recognize the wrongs they did to Israel (Isaiah 52:13-53:5)

done

The peoples of the world will turn to the Jews for spiritual guidance (Zechariah 8:23)

Hmmmm well we do, kinda, your messiah!! (if we are right and you have turned your back on your own messiah. Which by the way would have had to have happened in order for the workd to get out and other nations to take it on.)

The ruined cities of Israel will be restored (Ezekiel 16:55)

Happening

Weapons of war will be destroyed (Ezekiel 39:9)

In time

The people of Israel will have direct access to the Torah through their minds and Torah study will become the study of the wisdom of the heart (Jeremiah 31:33)[5]

Love

He will give you all the worthy desires of your heart (Psalms 37:4)

He would if you asked

He will take the barren land and make it abundant and fruitful (Isaiah 51:3, Amos 9:13-15, Ezekiel 36:29-30, Isaiah 11:6-9)

That's happening...permaculturalists are begining to green the desert

The list of prophecies I pulled from Wiki as a neutral source. Do you need me to highlight which ones have not been fulfilled?

 

[LoAmmi]

Once he is King, leaders of other nations will look to him for guidance. (Isaiah 2:4)

certainly true

Jesus was never king of Israel. This is not "certainly true".

The whole world will worship the One God of Israel (Isaiah 2:11-17)

Now here we have a small problem. There is only one God, so this idea of the one god being the god of Israel is odd, for me. What about the one god of the Hindu's or other monothiastic religions. The great spirit of the native americans. My God is one god so is therefore the same God. If it means will worship the one god like you do then why not say it. What about the one god as you do? It often happens in prophecies that they don't take into consideration what was not known about at the time of writing.

Your interpretation. You believe in some sort of oneness, I do not. I can accept that others have perceived HaShem, but they do not see Him as we do.

He will be descended from King David (Isaiah 11:1) via Solomon (1 Chronicles 22:8-10, 2 Chronicles 7:18)

Since Jesus was a man who knows about that one.

It is a prophecy.

The "spirit of the Lord" will be upon him, and he will have a "fear of God" (Isaiah 11:2)

Touch who?

I do not understand.

Evil and tyranny will not be able to stand before his leadership (Isaiah 11:4)

That is one of those one's that is gradually coming : )

He still has to come back and be king, no? That has not happened.

Knowledge of God will fill the world (Isaiah 11:9)

Well that's happened already, but again...increasing

It is supposed to happen when the messiah is king. That has still not happened.

He will include and attract people from all cultures and nations (Isaiah 11:10)

done

I can see where this could be fulfilled by Jesus. I can also see where it could be said it was not if Jesus was wrong.

All Israelites will be returned to their homeland (Isaiah 11:12)

All those that want to have

Not the Exiles, which are needed for this prophecy to be true.

Death will be swallowed up forever (Isaiah 25:8)

Death will be swallowed up forever, but you have to understand enlightenment for that to make sense

No I do not. You are adding to the prophets.

There will be no more hunger or illness, and death will cease (Isaiah 25:8)

Again, understanding enlightenment

Again, your adding to the prophets.

All of the dead will rise again (Isaiah 26:19)

?

You do not like this one?

The Jewish people will experience eternal joy and gladness (Isaiah 51:11)

That will be the day!

Indeed. Will it not be an awesome proof that the messiah has come?

He will be a messenger of peace (Isaiah 52:7)

done

"I come not to bring peace, but a sword".

Nations will recognize the wrongs they did to Israel (Isaiah 52:13-53:5)

done

Ok, this needs bold. WHAT?! Since when did this happen? Did I miss a news item?

The peoples of the world will turn to the Jews for spiritual guidance (Zechariah 8:23)

Hmmmm well we do, kinda, your messiah!! (if we are right and you have turned your back on your own messiah. Which by the way would have had to have happened in order for the workd to get out and other nations to take it on.)

23 This is what the Lord Almighty says: “In those days ten people from all languages and nations will take firm hold of one Jew by the hem of his robe and say, ‘Let us go with you, because we have heard that God is with you.’”

Sorry, your interpretation does not fit the verse.

The ruined cities of Israel will be restored (Ezekiel 16:55)

Happening

Still waiting for that king to arrive though...

Weapons of war will be destroyed (Ezekiel 39:9)

In time

Supposed to happen when the messiah comes

The people of Israel will have direct access to the Torah through their minds and Torah study will become the study of the wisdom of the heart (Jeremiah 31:33)[5]

Love

Sorry, no. "Love" is a nice concept, but it is not the Torah.

He will give you all the worthy desires of your heart (Psalms 37:4)

He would if you asked

I would actually go against Wiki on this being a messianic prophecy. I do not see the standard hallmarks.

He will take the barren land and make it abundant and fruitful (Isaiah 51:3, Amos 9:13-15, Ezekiel 36:29-30, Isaiah 11:6-9)

That's happening...permaculturalists are begining to green the desert

Fair enough.


My point is that we are not actively rejecting anybody. We are waiting for those things to come to pass. We weigh everybody against those measures. The person either has met or has not met the objectives.

 

[louisealex]

Thank you for elucidating the problems.

What is the wisdom of the heart if it is not Love?

Anyways, thank you I have often wondered what the problems are.

Shame you guys are still stuck in seperation mentality, Oneness is a reality being experienced by more and more people. It is an actual reality. I hope it happens to me soon, but well I am not holding my breath.

Louise

 

[LoAmmi]

What is the wisdom of the heart if it is not Love?

We are told in the Torah that the Torah is the path of life. We are told to love others as ourselves, so it is not devoid of that. I simply do not believe that the phrase "love" can mean all things.

Shame you guys are still stuck in seperation mentality, Oneness is a reality being experienced by more and more people. It is an actual reality. I hope it happens to me soon, but well I am not holding my breath.

I have no desire for anything described as Oneness. It is not appealing for me. People can experience whatever reality they desire.

 

[dfw69]

Have we not been through this?

World Peace
Rebuilding of the Temple
All know HaShem (no missionaries needed)
All Jews reside within Israel

Those are some of the ones that can happen once and no more.

probably so but i may have forgotten.....


Anyone can cause world peace with help of nations....and using unseen technology forces.. so no one is ever accused...like the past two resent tsunamies ....were probably manipulated....these thing such as weather manipulalations earthquakes and such can depopulate earth and enemies of the agenda for world peace

the temple built one last time?....several times in history the temple was built....and this next temple to come will not last long
.....

all will know hashem...how?....when he is invisible and is suppose to reside in the holy of holies when its built?......and only the high priest will enter...

all tbe jews in israel?.....so many claim to be jews...many can come out and make aalyah to israel and it can be seen as the prophecy coming to pass

all im saying is if these are signs....they are not so convincing....and can be manipulated by mans abilities today......thats why jesus prophecies of the end times say be not decieve..for his signs will be far more convincing when they occure