what messianic prophecies where not fulfilled by jesus?

[Eyes wide Open]

sexual relations with absent of love?....

I have to explain that? if I must, sexual relations with an absense of love (Showing that you care) is purely for SELF gratification. That does not mean that both parties will not be mutually SELF gratified (all good) but only until one party becomes abused, either mentally or physically (through a lack of caring) thus creating a breakdown in the relationship causing trauma and heartache. (not God's ideal) So a relationship built on love will always prevail because you will always care for the others mental and physical well being keeping the relationship sound (if not rocky from time to time) This is why marriage was seen as sacred becasue two people in love was seen as God's ideal way, because love was the bond. Now we have taken it to mean that the marrige itself is the sacred aspect but without love it is nothing. (if not hedonistic for a time, but only until it ain't)

Edit: sorry sounded rude at the start, I was pushed for time.

 

[someguy14]

Could you explain how this relates to the thread?

God is all goodness and the only one worthy of praise.

 

[someguy14]

Simply put, you are not answering my question. I asked you, specifically, if you could show me how the Psalm verse was related to the messiah. You have answered in the quoted fashion.

This is like answering my inquiry about what time it is with a speech about how you do not like Daylight Savings Time. Sure, I can see the relation, but you are not really being forthcoming with an answer.

I have answered your questions LoAmmi. If your choosing to reject them or accept them, that is entirely your choice. May God bless.

 

[LoAmmi]

I have answered your questions LoAmmi. If your choosing to reject them or accept them, that is entirely your choice. May God bless.

No, you did not go through the Psalm to show me where it is about the messiah. It is not about accept or reject, there was no answer.

 

[ViaCrucis]

I think people believe it is a place for torture due to some sort of revenge fantasy. "You don't believe what I do, so you'll burn FOREVER!"

I would have to verify that the word is what is used in the Hebrew originally. I do not think it is, but I have not looked.

In the writings of Tertullian of Carthage, he speaks of the torture of the wicked--nearly with glee--and this certainly represents a revenge fantasy. Of course for Tertullian it's not "you don't believe what I do" but rather, "you who have persecuted us, oppressed us, put us to death and burned us at the stake, you will get your just reward."

Of course Tertullian's view doesn't seem to represent the mainstream very much. It's worth pointing out that Tertullian abandoned catholic Christianity and joined the Montanist sect, a heretical conservative apocalyptic movement not unlike modern apocalyptic cults.

Other contemporary writers, such as Origen of Alexandria, postulated that punishment in Hell was temporal, and speculated it was possible that all rational creatures--including the devils--could be eventually reconciled with God.

Later theologians, such as St. Gregory of Nyssa offers his position that the fires of Hell are chiefly purgatorial, comparing them to the fires which purify gold.

That's important to me because it means that Christianity has, historically, hardly been monolithic on the subject.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[someguy14]

No, you did not go through the Psalm to show me where it is about the messiah. It is not about accept or reject, there was no answer.

All goodness comes from God, LoAmmi. You should be aware of that. All praise is for God and blessed are those that belong to God.

 

[LoAmmi]

All goodness comes from God, LoAmmi. You should be aware of that. All praise is for God and blessed are those that belong to God.

I am Jewish and I practice Judaism. Do you believe we praise other beings than HaShem? By praise, I am assuming we mean worship and not telling someone else they did a good job.

 

[dfw69]

I have to explain that? if I must, sexual relations with an absense of love (Showing that you care) is purely for SELF gratification. That does not mean that both parties will not be mutually SELF gratified (all good) but only until one party becomes abused, either mentally or physically (through a lack of caring) thus creating a breakdown in the relationship causing trauma and heartache. (not God's ideal) So a relationship built on love will always prevail because you will always care for the others mental and physical well being keeping the relationship sound (if not rocky from time to time) This is why marriage was seen as sacred becasue two people in love was seen as God's ideal way, because love was the bond. Now we have taken it to mean that the marrige itself is the sacred aspect but without love it is nothing. (if not hedonistic for a time, but only until it ain't)

Edit: sorry sounded rude at the start, I was pushed for time.

i understand that......but what does it have to do in the garden of eden...with adam and eve?....what i understand took place was that eve was decieved by satan....and ate from the tree of knowlegde....then after not dying instantly gave adam to eat......this was forbidden....and a sin causing death....are you saying the tree of knowlegde was not a fruit but symbolic?....i was just trying to understand you...

 

[dfw69]

In the writings of Tertullian of Carthage, he speaks of the torture of the wicked--nearly with glee--and this certainly represents a revenge fantasy. Of course for Tertullian it's not "you don't believe what I do" but rather, "you who have persecuted us, oppressed us, put us to death and burned us at the stake, you will get your just reward."

Of course Tertullian's view doesn't seem to represent the mainstream very much. It's worth pointing out that Tertullian abandoned catholic Christianity and joined the Montanist sect, a heretical conservative apocalyptic movement not unlike modern apocalyptic cults.

Other contemporary writers, such as Origen of Alexandria, postulated that punishment in Hell was temporal, and speculated it was possible that all rational creatures--including the devils--could be eventually reconciled with God.

Later theologians, such as St. Gregory of Nyssa offers his position that the fires of Hell are chiefly purgatorial, comparing them to the fires which purify gold.

That's important to me because it means that Christianity has, historically, hardly been monolithic on the subject.

-CryptoLutheran

Well imo.....hell fire is not temporal......not a place of purifying into gold......but a place of eternal judgement........for sins committed.....eternal seperation from god.....so....let us not sin.....or face the consenquences.....

 

[CalledOutOne]

Isaiah 1:26: "And I will restore your judges as at first and your counsellors as in the beginning; afterwards you shall be called City of Righteousness, Faithful City." Some Jews[4] interpret this to mean that the Sanhedrin will be re-established."(Isaiah 1:26)

This is yet to come. This will happen during the thousand year millennial reign of Yeshua.

Once he is King, leaders of other nations will look to him for guidance. (Isaiah 2:4)

See above. Millennial reign.

The whole world will worship the One God of Israel (Isaiah 2:11-17)

Yet to come. When this happens: Philippians 2:10.

He will be descended from King David (Isaiah 11:1) via Solomon (1 Chronicles 22:8-10, 2 Chronicles 7:18)

He fulfilled this one. (Matthew 1:6)

The "spirit of the Lord" will be upon him, and he will have a "fear of God" (Isaiah 11:2)

The Holy Spirit was upon Him (Mark 3 shows Him casting out demons with the Holy Spirit). The fear of the Lord was upon Him (Luke 22:44 shows Him sweating blood for the wrath of God was about to come upon Him for the sins of the elect.)

Evil and tyranny will not be able to stand before his leadership (Isaiah 11:4)

Yet to come. Read The Revelation of Jesus Christ.

Knowledge of God will fill the world (Isaiah 11:9)

Yet to come. See Philippians 2:10.

He will include and attract people from all cultures and nations (Isaiah 11:10)

Revelation 5:9

All Israelites will be returned to their homeland (Isaiah 11:12)

Yet to come. See Romans 11.

Death will be swallowed up forever (Isaiah 25:8)

Death is swallowed up. See 1 Corinthians 15:53-57

There will be no more hunger or illness, and death will cease (Isaiah 25:8)

See Revelation 21:4.

All of the dead will rise again (Isaiah 26:19)

See Revelation 20:13.

The Jewish people will experience eternal joy and gladness (Isaiah 51:11)

Not the Jews, but the ransomed. Millenial reign and the salvation of His elect. Again Revelation 21:4.

He will be a messenger of peace (Isaiah 52:7)

See Romans 5:1.

Nations will recognize the wrongs they did to Israel (Isaiah 52:13-53:5)

Have you read it? It's not their wrongs to Israel, it's their wrongs to Messiah. And that is yet to come. It will be in final judgement. See The Revelation of Jesus Christ.

The peoples of the world will turn to the Jews for spiritual guidance (Zechariah 8:23)

See Romans 11. That is when Israel is restored.

The ruined cities of Israel will be restored (Ezekiel 16:55)

The new temple will be built during the Millennial Reign of Jesus Christ (Ezekiel; Zechariah; Revelation).

Weapons of war will be destroyed (Ezekiel 39:9)

Yet to come. See above.

The people of Israel will have direct access to the Torah through their minds and Torah study will become the study of the wisdom of the heart (Jeremiah 31:33)

See Romans 1.

He will give you all the worthy desires of your heart (Psalms 37:4)

You haven't delighted in Messiah. You wouldn't experience this.

He will take the barren land and make it abundant and fruitful (Isaiah 51:3, Amos 9:13-15, Ezekiel 36:29-30, Isaiah 11:6-9)

Millennial Reign. See above.


There is no prophecy that Yeshua has not fulfilled or that He won't fulfill.

 

[LoAmmi]

There is no prophecy that Yeshua has not fulfilled or that He won't fulfill.

Great, so when Jesus does it, I will believe he is the messiah.

I will not read the New Testament to see these fulfilled. I see a lot more "it will happen" than it has happened, and the ones claimed are ones that plenty of people could have accomplished. Born in the line of David is not exactly impressive.

I have read Isaiah 53. It is not about the messiah in my opinion. The servant is never identified as the messiah anywhere in Isaiah, but is identified as Israel many times.

 

[CalledOutOne]

Great, so when Jesus does it, I will believe he is the messiah.

I will not read the New Testament to see these fulfilled. I see a lot more "it will happen" than it has happened, and the ones claimed are ones that plenty of people could have accomplished. Born in the line of David is not exactly impressive.

I have read Isaiah 53. It is not about the messiah in my opinion. The servant is never identified as the messiah anywhere in Isaiah, but is identified as Israel many times.

Well, according to Yeshua you are blinded by the evil one. You don't even believe the Tanakh, so what difference does it make?

 

[LoAmmi]

Well, according to Yeshua you are blinded by the evil one. You don't even believe the Tanakh, so what difference does it make?

Of course I believe the Tanakh. You have given me New Testament verses to read. Care to take the challenge and prove it from the Tanakh?

"Blinded by the evil one" is just a way to make people feel better when others disagree with them.

 

[CalledOutOne]

You don't believe the Tanakh. If you did you would know that it testifies about Yeshua.

We as Gentiles now have a relationship with your God.
We are even coming around to keeping the Torah.

 

[LoAmmi]

You don't believe the Tanakh. If you did you would know that it testifies about Yeshua.

I know that it is claimed that it does, however I have never seen much evidence to that effect.

I do not appreciate being told what I believe or do not believe and ask you to cease making accusations.

 

[LoAmmi]

We as Gentiles now have a relationship with your God.
We are even coming around to keeping the Torah.

Gentiles have always had the ability to have a relationship. There are gentiles in the Tanakh that are shown to believe.

Why keep the Torah? Is it not the common belief that you were freed?

 

[CalledOutOne]

Freed from sin and slavery. I am now a slave of righteousness through the redeeming blood of Yeshua.

I don't keep the Torah to be saved or to maintain salvation, but because I love God and I love His Law.

A lot of Messianics are popping up.

 

[LoAmmi]

I don't keep the Torah to be saved or to maintain salvation, but because I love God and I love His Law.

You have basically just described the Jewish position on the Torah. Paul pretty much says that the Torah was a guide and that now grace is the way to go.

 

[CalledOutOne]

You are lost and you are held captive to keeping all of the Law.
Your mind is blinded.
You are anti-Messiah.
There is no hope unless you fall on your face and recognize Messiah:
Jesus Died! - Paul Washer - YouTube

 

[LoAmmi]

You are lost and you are held captive to keeping all of the Law.
Your mind is blinded.
You are anti-Messiah.
There is no hope unless you fall on your face and recognize Messiah:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a11ASw5NRUw

So, you do not desire a conversation?