Damage done to Jews by Christian traditions

[pat34lee]

It is to some. Sad but true. There is an element of MJism that is your garden variety anti-Catholic.

It is not anti-Catholic as much as anti-counterfeit religion.

The Catholic church is one of the ones mentioned most because it is the most obvious offender. It is the one that changed the Sabbath and the feast days and brought pagan practices into the church. It is also the mother of most other churches, as they still carry many of the same traditions.

 

[ContraMundum]

It is not anti-Catholic as much as anti-counterfeit religion.

The Catholic church is one of the ones mentioned most because it is the most obvious offender. It is the one that changed the Sabbath and the feast days and brought pagan practices into the church. It is also the mother of most other churches, as they still carry many of the same traditions.

I don't really believe that any more, so you won't get me to turn back my clock and buy it.

Carry on....

 

[someguy14]

If you get stabbed, do you not bleed?
We are all human and facing attacks from multiple sides. We can each relate to one another as human beings. We all desire Love and that is a common ground. We all came from Adam and are of the same. Would you rather fight for your traditions? Or would you rather unite in The One God that is The Maker of us all. You can never go wrong, doing Gods will. Love God and Love thy neighbour.

 

[LOCO]

I don't really believe that any more, so you won't get me to turn back my clock and buy it.

Carry on....

 

[pat34lee]

I don't really believe that any more, so you won't get me to turn back my clock and buy it.

Carry on....

It's not a matter of belief, it's a matter of history. The Catholic church was proud of the fact that they considered themselves powerful enough to change the holy days from the biblical dates to their own days. And most other churches still follow their lead.

 

[Aeneas]

Watching Christians attack each other makes me sad.

 

[ContraMundum]

It's not a matter of belief, it's a matter of history. The Catholic church was proud of the fact that they considered themselves powerful enough to change the holy days from the biblical dates to their own days. And most other churches still follow their lead.

If that's how you interpret it, then you are free to believe that.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

It is to some. Sad but true. There is an element of MJism that is your garden variety anti-Catholic.

For those Messianic Jews who are either in support of Catholicism or are active within the Catholic church (i.e. Hebrew Catholics) and thankful for the ways the Lord has used the Catholic Church in many things ranging from community involvement to benevolence ministry, spreading the Gospel of Christ, I'm sadden to see where the Messianic movement would allow for anti-Catholicism to occur under the name of "biblical discussion."

However, as many Messianic ministers/ministries actually take on some of the aspects of the camps out of which they are either hosted or developed from, it would not surprise me to see some Messianic ministries take on aspects of what they saw previously in the Protestant Movement. For many Evangelical circles hosting Messianic circles tend to influence people in being rabbidly anti-Catholic and thinking that to be anti-Catholic is to be pro-Christ/pro-Scripture. If there was an article like the 21st Century one where all things Protestant were disssed (including Messianic circles), of course it would not be taken well because of how it'd be quickly claimed that misrepresentation occurred. But that same honor must be given to others as well, even if you disagreed with the theology. Some of this reminds me of what was discussed in the forums when it came to Catholicism intersecting with the Messianic Movement, as seen in the thread entitled Mel Gibsons New Biblical Movie

Philip Jenkins had some wonderful things to say on the issue of Anti-Catholicism that I was very thankful for:

Anti-Catholicism​

 

[ContraMundum]

For those Messianic Jews who are either in support of Catholicism or are active within the Catholic church (i.e. Hebrew Catholics) and thankful for the ways the Lord has used the Catholic Church in many things ranging from community involvement to benevolence ministry, spreading the Gospel of Christ, I'm sadden to see where the Messianic movement would allow for anti-Catholicism to occur under the name of "biblical discussion."

However, as many Messianic ministers/ministries actually take on some of the aspects of the camps out of which they are either hosted or developed from, it would not surprise me to see some Messianic ministries take on aspects of what they saw previously in the Protestant Movement. For many Evangelical circles hosting Messianic circles tend to influence people in being rabbidly anti-Catholic and thinking that to be anti-Catholic is to be pro-Christ/pro-Scripture. If there was an article like the 21st Century one where all things Protestant were disssed (including Messianic circles), of course it would not be taken well because of how it'd be quickly claimed that misrepresentation occurred. But that same honor must be given to others as well, even if you disagreed with the theology. Some of this reminds me of what was discussed in the forums when it came to Catholicism intersecting with the Messianic Movement, as seen in the thread entitled Mel Gibsons New Biblical Movie

Let me take a punt on this and say that I think the anti-Catholicism is a lay-over from radical Protestantism that has managed to find its way into the thinking of some who have journeyed into the Messianic Movement.

But that is just the opinion of a simple bloke like me.

 

[pat34lee]

Let me take a punt on this and say that I think the anti-Catholicism is a lay-over from radical Protestantism that has managed to find its way into the thinking of some who have journeyed into the Messianic Movement.

But that is just the opinion of a simple bloke like me.

This is the type of simplistic thinking that led to the ecumenical movement and great evangelists like "Can't we all just get along?" Rodney King.

We are to stand against blatant sin in the church. Especially when it is being taught by the church.

People cannot know the truth unless someone tells them. Then it is up to them whether to believe it or not. Just know that believing or not believing does not change the truth.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Let me take a punt on this and say that I think the anti-Catholicism is a lay-over from radical Protestantism that has managed to find its way into the thinking of some who have journeyed into the Messianic Movement.

But that is just the opinion of a simple bloke like me.

Good insight, as many of the same arguments often brought out against Catholicism have been gross misinterpretations of what is actually taught--and many of them typical of exactly what's said in many Protestant circles that would pride themselves of not doing the same or what they deem "error" even though there has been many of the same things....


Other Messianics have often noted the same as well

 

[ContraMundum]

This is the type of simplistic thinking that led to the ecumenical movement and great evangelists like "Can't we all just get along?" Rodney King.

a) I don't think it is as simplistic as you might think. There is certainly a trace element of radical protestantism in this.

b) Rodney King is not an evangelist or a leader in the ecumenical movement.

We are to stand against blatant sin in the church. Especially when it is being taught by the church.

People cannot know the truth unless someone tells them. Then it is up to them whether to believe it or not. Just know that believing or not believing does not change the truth.

Agreed.

 

[ContraMundum]

Good insight, as many of the same arguments often brought out against Catholicism have been gross misinterpretations of what is actually taught--and many of them typical of exactly what's said in many Protestant circles that would pride themselves of not doing the same or what they deem "error" even though there has been many of the same things....


Other Messianics have often noted the same as well

Could it just be standard old garden variety prejudice?

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Could it just be standard old garden variety prejudice?

I think so, though many times prejudice arise due to the residue of what one grew up with---or misunderstanding (and fear, to be honest) of what is really believed by others. People fear what they don't understand...and they hate what they fear.

 

[LOCO]

It is to some. Sad but true. There is an element of MJism that is your garden variety anti-Catholic.

Thank you for at least being honest about it. I'd like a frank dialogue with someone who is able to at least admit that there is an element of anti-Catholicism within MJism.

Just as there has been a history of anti-judaism within the Catholic Church and even today to some extent but we are working on that relationship. I don't defend Catholicism with blinkers on, I am aware of her failings over the past 2000 years and I accept her as she is warts and all.

 

[ContraMundum]

Thank you for at least being honest about it. I'd like a frank dialogue with someone who is able to at least admit that there is an element of anti-Catholicism within MJism.

Just as there has been a history of anti-judaism within the Catholic Church and even today to some extent but we are working on that relationship. I don't defend Catholicism with blinkers on, I am aware of her failings over the past 2000 years and I accept her as she is warts and all.

To my knowledge the RCC is way ahead of the other churches in terms of confession to anti-semitism and seeking to right the wrongs done in the past. I speak of this in regards the institutional level- there have always been Catholics and other Christians of all stripes who have individually done great things for Jewish people, but as an institution, the RCC is way ahead by making formal moves and statements to correct anti-semitism in the Church. Nostra Aetate was a huge step forward for Christianity.

However, while churches gather around making amends with our friends in other faiths, many of us have not buried the hatchet with other Christians. To some people, the RCC is still a scapegoat and whipping boy for all kinds of conceivable and reprehensible deeds, and very rarely is there much substance or reason for this blame found in the facts of the matter. The MJism that is anti-Catholic is basically left-overs from radicalized quasi-Protestantism that evens demonizes normative Protestant churches as well. Hence, it is not uncommon to find that an anti-Catholic MJ is also an anti-"The Churches" MJ. The good news is that mainstream MJism on the whole does not concern itself with such fanatical and irrational thinking, and is in fact a progressive and positive force in the Christian Faith.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

To my knowledge the RCC is way ahead of the other churches in terms of confession to anti-semitism and seeking to right the wrongs done in the past. I speak of this in regards the institutional level- there have always been Catholics and other Christians of all stripes who have individually done great things for Jewish people, but as an institution, the RCC is way ahead by making formal moves and statements to correct anti-semitism in the Church. Nostra Aetate was a huge step forward for Christianity.

However, while churches gather around making amends with our friends in other faiths, many of us have not buried the hatchet with other Christians. To some people, the RCC is still a scapegoat and whipping boy for all kinds of conceivable and reprehensible deeds, and very rarely is there much substance or reason for this blame found in the facts of the matter. The MJism that is anti-Catholic is basically left-overs from radicalized quasi-Protestantism that evens demonizes normative Protestant churches as well. Hence, it is not uncommon to find that an anti-Catholic MJ is also an anti-"The Churches" MJ. The good news is that mainstream MJism on the whole does not concern itself with such fanatical and irrational thinking, and is in fact a progressive and positive force in the Christian Faith.

There has to be honesty on all sides in order for true understanding, healing and bridges formed in the Lord...and thankfully that is occurring in many places

 

[visionary]

Deuteronomy 11:12
New International Version (NIV)
12 It is a land the LORD your God cares for; the eyes of the LORD your God are continually on it from the beginning of the year to its end.

 

[DennisTate]

The article "The Jews and their Lies" written in 1543 is a good article to read to begin to understand how horrible our ideas were a few centuries ago.

Pastor Rick Joyner was given a visionary dream in 1995 that goes a long way toward helping us to be more open about our guilt of the past. Do a search for The Hordes of Hell Are Marching if you are interested.....when you find the article skip down to the subtitle The Judgment Seat of Christ.

 

[ContraMundum]

The article "The Jews and their Lies" written in 1543 is a good article to read to begin to understand how horrible our ideas were a few centuries ago.

The problem with that essay is that it is one of three Luther wrote about the Jews, and the other two were glowing appraisals of them. He also pleaded for the Church to treat the Jews kindly in his final sermon. It's pretty hard to generalize on this matter, as it is complex and very messy.

Pastor Rick Joyner was given a visionary dream in 1995 that goes a long way toward helping us to be more open about our guilt of the past. Do a search for The Hordes of Hell Are Marching if you are interested.....when you find the article skip down to the subtitle The Judgment Seat of Christ.

I read that book. It struck me as a little fleshy, as it looked more like it was written by a student of church history (which Rick is) than by a genuine prophet. It has no insight that one could not glean from picking up a copy of a good Church history book. But, for Charismatics who hate academia, it may have been the perfect voice for them to hear.