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Different state past

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AV1611VET

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Oh, so nice to see you trying to subtly insult others, AV. Such a good example you are setting for your fellow Christian.

Anyway, there's a big difference between participating in a thread since the beginning (or near to it), and reading the whole thread in one go.
You might want to read your post again, then.

An analogy would be like a man standing in a room for a day, then coming out and telling others not to spend any length of time in it, because it will fry your brain.
 
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History and the bible. Where else?? The doubts about the records on life spans...support? Oh...don't have any? I know.
There is very little scientific support for that. Although they do not rule long lifespans out. The passage in the Bible where people will live to be 100 during the reign of Christ, seems to be coming true. The average age in Jerusalem is already up to over 80 years of age.
 
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rambot

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It doesn't. But the need for special intervention is eliminated. No fairies needed for every tree that grew fast or man that lived a long time...etc.
So God DID limit himself to the laws in the different past state.


Say what?
What you dismiss as "special intervention", I would argue are the mechanisms God used in creation.



Plenty happened I suspect. Man no longer could communicate for one thing. As in Babel. Continents separated. But of course this was at the time when we could not communicate so expect no records:)
Well, that is both really convenient for you, and utterly ridiculous to claim "no written records" when the ONLY support you have for this ridiculous theory is a SINGLE ancient text (translated dozens of times mind you)
And "plenty"? You list two things and call that plenty? That's kind of absurd

Now that it is clear...what is your excuse?
Under no circumstances is that even close to true. You've created some comforting theory that has no evidentiary support; even in the Bible. You approach ALL information with your comfort theory and make things fit into it. As the Bible is incredibly vague, it's REALLY REALLY easy to make it fit to what you want it to. If it is impossible to fit the new information into your comfort theory, you seem to not admit it's existence (see Elendur's post and your exclamation that he quotes).


Right. Some read, but not all understand. I have the advantage of science. .
If you sincerely believe that BUT can only give two ridiculous examples of how "the change" affected people, you are delusional and ignorant in an embarrassing way.


Simpl put, I do not understand how you view reality. Not in terms of this theory, but in terms of looking at the natural world.
 
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dad

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Show me this history then, and remember that you have claimed it's outside of the bible.
The Sumerian records tell of long lifespans. They are of course pagan records, so one would not look to them for detailed accuracy. But they do agree with the biblical amazing long lives enough to be evidence. The spirits of Egypt also, even early kings were said to be gods and spirit beings! The bible also indicates that spirits married women here.
 
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dad

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There is very little scientific support for that. Although they do not rule long lifespans out.
Who are "they"?? Science? They have no possible clue.

The passage in the Bible where people will live to be 100 during the reign of Christ, seems to be coming true. The average age in Jerusalem is already up to over 80 years of age.
Absurd. It actually cites an exception to long lives again coming, where if a poor guy dies at 100 somehow, he will be considered a child still. To claim that indicates how long men will live displays a stark lack of comprehension.
 
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dad

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So God DID limit himself to the laws in the different past state.
No. But He limited man. The different laws of creation week also can be traced forward clear on past the flood.
What you dismiss as "special intervention", I would argue are the mechanisms God used in creation.
The different laws of creation week also can be traced forward clear on past the flood. How God created doesn't matter. The way nature here worked matters.



Well, that is both really convenient for you, and utterly ridiculous to claim "no written records" when the ONLY support you have for this ridiculous theory is a SINGLE ancient text (translated dozens of times mind you)
And "plenty"? You list two things and call that plenty? That's kind of absurd
Far from ridiculous, it is obvious that in a world that just had all men confused in languages and unable to talk to each other for the most part, that written records would not exist in abundance. Who knows if there even was a need to writing when we all understood everyone?

Furthermore the very early civilization of Egypt resorted to pictures and picture words to communicate and form a written record! So maybe pictures might be a good place to look for a 'written' record near the nature change time?
Under no circumstances is that even close to true. You've created some comforting theory that has no evidentiary support; even in the Bible. You approach ALL information with your comfort theory and make things fit into it. As the Bible is incredibly vague, it's REALLY REALLY easy to make it fit to what you want it to. If it is impossible to fit the new information into your comfort theory, you seem to not admit it's existence (see Elendur's post and your exclamation that he quotes).
What is not true?? You ain't deep, you just ain't clear.

If you sincerely believe that BUT can only give two ridiculous examples of how "the change" affected people, you are delusional and ignorant in an embarrassing way.
False. The advantage of science is that we have more facts and evidence to explain. Like the separation of continents, fossils, stars...etc etc. With God's word to man, real clues can be had. I kid you not.
Simpl put, I do not understand how you view reality. Not in terms of this theory, but in terms of looking at the natural world.
Simple. The present natural world is fine. All well and good and set up by God for us. Lots of wonderful things about nature even now. The laws we have here also are Jim Dandy. They work fine. However, the present nature is clearly temporal, so I wouldn't get so hung up on it that you put it before the creator. That is the name of the so called science game!
 
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Farinata

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Well I think I can sum this up.

Joe: Hey Mac?

Mac: Yeah Joe?

Joe: You know science?

Mac: Yeah?

Joe: The methodology and body of knowledge that put men on the moon? And put GPS satellites into orbit? That taught us about germs and DNA? That gave us computers, cellphones, and harnessed electricity? Superconductors, vaccines, and nuclear power? That lets us make quantitative statements and validated predictions about stars exploding in other galaxies? And let's us examine the very building blocks of reality in particle accelerators?

Mac: Yeah, what about it?

Joe: What if it's all BS and a couple of nomads living 4000 years ago in backwater Palestine in the bronze age had it all right?

Mac: I don't know Joe. Wouldn't that mean the earth is only 6000 years old?

Joe: Yeah, so what?

Mac: Well doesn't radiometric dating, for example, show that the world is older than that?

Joe: Nah. The laws of nature just worked differently back then.

Mac: Differently how?

Joe: I don't know. In a way that I can't be wrong. Man, science makes SO many unwarranted assumptions.
 
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rambot

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No. But He limited man. The different laws of creation week also can be traced forward clear on past the flood.
There is a lack of understanding here that I cannot clarify and, given I'm trying to get you to understand what you are saying, I figure I'll just let this argument go.

The different laws of creation week also can be traced forward clear on past the flood. How God created doesn't matter. The way nature here worked matters.
1) How this world came to be is one of the biggest goals of science. So, I'm not surprised you dismiss it so roundly.


Far from ridiculous, it is obvious that in a world that just had all men confused in languages and unable to talk to each other for the most part, that written records would not exist in abundance. Who knows if there even was a need to writing when we all understood everyone?
So I guess the Bible is not a written record?

Furthermore the very early civilization of Egypt resorted to pictures and picture words to communicate and form a written record! So maybe pictures might be a good place to look for a 'written' record near the nature change time?
I just do not know where to begin.


What is not true?? You ain't deep, you just ain't clear.
I wasn't talking about "truth" I was talking about your M.O. in discussions about the past.

False. The advantage of science is that we have more facts and evidence to explain. Like the separation of continents, fossils, stars...etc etc. With God's word to man, real clues can be had. I kid you not.
I KNOW what the advantages of science are. You do NOT have them behind your argument. You do not even have God's word.
 
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dad

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Mac: Well doesn't radiometric dating, for example, show that the world is older than that?

Joe: Nah. The laws of nature just worked differently back then.

Mac: Differently how?..
In all the ways history and the bible detail. But you need to look at what science knows. That doesn't include the state of the past.
 
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dad

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There is a lack of understanding here that I cannot clarify and, given I'm trying to get you to understand what you are saying, I figure I'll just let this argument go.

1) How this world came to be is one of the biggest goals of science. So, I'm not surprised you dismiss it so roundly.
If they wanted to get a clue how God dunnit thay shoulld not leave Him and His word out of their little knowledge pool. They have no hope now. Get over it.

So I guess the Bible is not a written record?
It came...when? Long after the tower of Babel.
I just do not know where to begin.
Just thought of that now? Maybe try to think of it before posting next time?
I wasn't talking about "truth" I was talking about your M.O. in discussions about the past.
What about them?
I KNOW what the advantages of science are. You do NOT have them behind your argument. You do not even have God's word.
If you claim to have them backin you up, let's have a look see!
 
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Farinata

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Mac: Differently how?

Joe: Differently in a way such that Bible is true.

Mac: So radiometric dating is wrong because it contradicts the Bible. And why should we trust the Bible?

Joe: Because it's the word of God!

Mac: And how do you know the Bible is the word of God?

Joe: Because it says so in the Bible!

Mac: So the Bible is true because it's the word of God. And the Bible is the word of God because it says so in the Bible?

Joe: Now you're getting it!

Mac:.... Do you have other reasons for believing in a 6000 year old earth?

Joe: Sure! Look at history! Sumerian mythology talked about people living for hundreds of years just like in Genesis, therefore people had to have lived for hundreds of years!

Mac: Didn't the Sumerians also worship lots of different gods? And have a different creation story? So do you worship those gods or believe in their creation story?

Joe: No, because that's not in the Bible! Wow you really don't get it do you?

That's soulless! - What evidence or logical argument can you provide? - YouTube
 
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rambot

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If they wanted to get a clue how God dunnit thay shoulld not leave Him and His word out of their little knowledge pool. They have no hope now. Get over it.

It came...when? Long after the tower of Babel.
Just thought of that now? Maybe try to think of it before posting next time?
What about them?
If you claim to have them backin you up, let's have a look see!
Wow. Even when I humoured you AND actually made an effort to understand your position, you still managed to obfuscate.

How can you manage to show people your way is right when you, clearly, don't even know what that is. It's like you just throw ideas, like cooked spagetti against a wall, to see if it sticks.

It is useless.

It is finished.
 
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AV1611VET

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dad

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Mac: Differently how?

Joe: Differently in a way such that Bible is true.

Mac: So radiometric dating is wrong because it contradicts the Bible. And why should we trust the Bible?
Try supporting it, rather than conducting the vaguemina monologues.
 
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dad

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Wow. Even when I humoured you AND actually made an effort to understand your position, you still managed to obfuscate.

How can you manage to show people your way is right when you, clearly, don't even know what that is. It's like you just throw ideas, like cooked spagetti against a wall, to see if it sticks.

It is useless.

It is finished.
I try to spoon feed evos, since their retention quotient is limited.
 
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