Staff and Member discussion thread.

[Henaynei]

I've finally caught up, sorry it took so long, I was out of town yesterday and today I awoke with an awful migraine that sent me back to bed but still didn't relieve it totally.

This is what I've been able to glean so far.


[*] Administration is against any kind of debating.
[*] Some have suggested we debate in the general debate area which will be the death of us (IMO)
[*]The main area (which at this point with the other thread I'm not sure what it's going to be called) will be debate free, only for fellowship
[*]We can't have two forums, one for Torah observant and the other for Messianic Jews/Hebrew Christians and Israel supporters that don't believe that the Torah is for now, because it didn't work for a completely different group of believers.
[*]I am supposed to write something up but I think I already did.

Here's a suggestion, why can't we have a forum where you click from the Main forum of CF to an area title 'Messianic', once in there, there is not 'Main forum, but instead a group of forums from which one can choose from by the description and beliefs?

You could have:

Messianic Judaism - 'For those who are Jewish believers in Jesus/Yeshua as the promised Messiah, and worship in a Jewish way and focus on Jewish Evangelism and for Gentiles that join them in this endevour.'
(This would include Jewish and Gentile Messianics as well as Hebrew Christians of similar beliefs)

Torah Keepers -' For both Jews and Gentiles who (and this is hard to word without offending someone) believe that G-ds Torah is everlasting till all things are fulfilled.'

Of course we may have those from other groups that are Christians and may want to come and have a place.

Messianic Movement -'Two House, Ephramitse, Sacred Name - this could be a forum for those groups.'

and all three of these would have their own formal debate area where those who want to debate the beliefs of that group can do so. Also this I think would cut down on all the squabbling and give each area a safe and comfortable area to have discussions. Of course all could go to any of the forums from any of these groups like other icons and make fellowship posts and ask questions.

Not at all bad - not perfect, mind you but then nothing would be! This, however, seems to cover nearly every issue ...

b'Shalom {iPod touch w/CF app}

 

[anisavta]

Yes please take a shot a drawing something up

How's this for a start - Debate Rules:

• [FONT=&quot]No personal attacks on other members of the forum; only comments relating to the subject being debated will be tolerated. Do not attack your fellow debaters![/FONT]
• [FONT=&quot]Do not join in a debate unless you are at least somewhat knowledgeable about the subject. Also, do not post opinions or declarations without explaining your reasoning and (wherever possible) providing supporting evidence. Please try to keep an open mind when debating! And do not join a debate just for the sake of debating.[/FONT]
• [FONT=&quot]No harsh wording or labeling. You can debate without being inflammatory. [/FONT]

• [FONT=&quot]Do not assume that opposing posts are a personal attack on you. Tone is very difficult to interpret online especially in a debate setting.[/FONT]
• [FONT=&quot]Discussion of posts made in the Debate Forum in other forums will not be tolerated. When we're outside the Debate Forum we're all neutrals! Posts in the Debate Forum are not relevant to conversations outside of the Debate Forum.[/FONT]
• [FONT=&quot]Please PM a fellow member to get permission before using their link, quotation, or ideas to begin a new debate.[/FONT]
• [FONT=&quot]Do not create threads here for the specific purpose of inciting another member.[/FONT]
• [FONT=&quot]Do not try to change someones opinions and/or beliefs.[/FONT]
• [FONT=&quot]Be mature and responsible. Don't make assumptions. Try not to take comments personally.[/FONT]
• [FONT=&quot]Avoid typing in all CAPS just to get your point across. (Netiquette: avoid the use of all CAPITAL LETTERS in posts. ALL CAPS is considered "shouting" and causes readability issues.)[/FONT]
• [FONT=&quot]Lastly, use common sense. This is not a place to vent; it is a place to rationally discuss topics of interest. If you feel yourself getting upset by a comment...take a step back and post later. Passion is great but don't let it get out of hand. Please behave accordingly![/FONT]

 

[Tishri1]

Cool!! What do you all think? Any additions ?

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Not at all bad - not perfect, mind you but then nothing would be! This, however, seems to cover nearly every issue ...

b'Shalom {iPod touch w/CF app}

One issue that came to my mind is that many who may be 'Two House, Ephramitse, Sacred Name" would be with the Torah Keepers since they often overlap..same with the Christians.

But apart from that, I agree with you on what you noted

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Cool!! What do you all think? Any additions ?

In the same way opponents at sports games shake hands/bless one another after the game's done, what if it was required for debaters to leave discussion alone giving encouragment to one another?

 

[Henaynei]

One issue that came to my mind is that many who may be 'Two House, Ephramitse, Sacred Name" would be with the Torah Keepers since they often overlap..same with the Christians.

But apart from that, I agree with you on what you noted

That may be true, however all the Major Messianic Organizations, and many not so major, have a clear consensus that the same do not fall within the main of MJism. In several cases these organizations have concluded those such as "Two House, Ephramite, and Sacred Name" constitute heresy. As such, if we choose to make a place for them here, it would be best policy to give them their own icons and posting perimeters.

Henaynei Drags out her dusty trunk and digs out her trusty ol' asbestos long johns and fire extinguisher.

b'Shalom {iPod touch w/CF app}

 

[Tishri1]

Ok.... Thoughts everyone?

 

[GuardianShua]

That may be true, however all the Major Messianic Organizations, and many not so major, have a clear consensus that the same do not fall within the main of MJism. In several cases these organizations have concluded those such as "Two House, Ephramite, and Sacred Name" constitute heresy. As such, if we choose to make a place for them here, it would be best policy to give them their own icons and posting perimeters.

b'Shalom {iPod touch w/CF app}

If you keep dividing the pie you will end up with nothing. The term ephramite is offencive. And no one here is a member of the Sacred Name movement.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

That may be true, however all the Major Messianic Organizations, and many not so major, have a clear consensus that the same do not fall within the main of MJism. In several cases these organizations have concluded those such as "Two House, Ephramite, and Sacred Name" constitute heresy. As such, if we choose to make a place for them here, it would be best policy to give them their own icons and posting perimeters.

The issue with what many Major Messianic organizations do is that many associated with them may have variations of things like Two House or Sacred Name, although it is a smaller degree. As it concerns making a place for them, how far would that go? Would that also go for others who may not be in agreement with Paul/feel he is off since there have been Messianics here of that persuasion? WOuld that also include Messianics who are for Trinitarian thought or Messianics of differing variations since we've also had variety there as well?

Henaynei Drags out her dusty trunk and digs out her trusty ol' asbestos long johns and fire extinguisher.

 

[ContraMundum]

Ok.... Thoughts everyone?

Over regulation jumps out as I read this thread. A real problem. The obvious effect is that the more rules you have the less participation you have. I really don't see what the "big problem" is now, as things are. The rules in place are just fine. It's about how they are interpreted and applied.

 

[ContraMundum]

There is an enormous difference between debating Torah as such (ie the content of the teaching) and debating who can or cannot, or who should, or should not, make it central to their lives, or what degree of adherence is acceptable to call ones self a Messianic. This seems to be what the OP is getting at.

....not to mention the question of "what is?" the Torah in the first place. This is part of the problem- one man's Torah observance is "not Jewish enough" or "too Jewish" or "too grace alone" for another.

People just need to back off from judging each others' personal practices.

 

[Tishri1]

That may be true, however all the Major Messianic Organizations, and many not so major, have a clear consensus that the same do not fall within the main of MJism. In several cases these organizations have concluded those such as "Two House, Ephramite, and Sacred Name" constitute heresy. As such, if we choose to make a place for them here, it would be best policy to give them their own icons and posting perimeters.

Henaynei Drags out her dusty trunk and digs out her trusty ol' asbestos long johns and fire extinguisher.

b'Shalom {iPod touch w/CF app}

Some see some you of your folks observance and think your one law or two house, how does that hit you all?

 

[Tishri1]

Over regulation jumps out as I read this thread. A real problem. The obvious effect is that the more rules you have the less participation you have. I really don't see what the "big problem" is now, as things are. The rules in place are just fine. It's about how they are interpreted and applied.

I have been in your face thru this whole thread CM, what do you think about what I had to say? To hard , or do you think you have some things to work on?

 

[MessianicMommy]

How's this for a start - Debate Rules:

• [FONT=&quot]No personal attacks on other members of the forum; only comments relating to the subject being debated will be tolerated. Do not attack your fellow debaters![/FONT]
• [FONT=&quot]Do not join in a debate unless you are at least somewhat knowledgeable about the subject. Also, do not post opinions or declarations without explaining your reasoning and (wherever possible) providing supporting evidence. Please try to keep an open mind when debating! And do not join a debate just for the sake of debating.[/FONT]
• [FONT=&quot]No harsh wording or labeling. You can debate without being inflammatory. [/FONT]

• [FONT=&quot]Do not assume that opposing posts are a personal attack on you. Tone is very difficult to interpret online especially in a debate setting.[/FONT]
• [FONT=&quot]Discussion of posts made in the Debate Forum in other forums will not be tolerated. When we're outside the Debate Forum we're all neutrals! Posts in the Debate Forum are not relevant to conversations outside of the Debate Forum.[/FONT]
• [FONT=&quot]Please PM a fellow member to get permission before using their link, quotation, or ideas to begin a new debate.[/FONT]
• [FONT=&quot]Do not create threads here for the specific purpose of inciting another member.[/FONT]
• [FONT=&quot]Do not try to change someones opinions and/or beliefs.[/FONT]
• [FONT=&quot]Be mature and responsible. Don't make assumptions. Try not to take comments personally.[/FONT]
• [FONT=&quot]Avoid typing in all CAPS just to get your point across. (Netiquette: avoid the use of all CAPITAL LETTERS in posts. ALL CAPS is considered "shouting" and causes readability issues.)[/FONT]
• [FONT=&quot]Lastly, use common sense. This is not a place to vent; it is a place to rationally discuss topics of interest. If you feel yourself getting upset by a comment...take a step back and post later. Passion is great but don't let it get out of hand. Please behave accordingly![/FONT]

The part I bolded, the only thing I would word differently is to add "People have different opinions and beliefs. It is fine to share yours with the understanding that they will also share theirs - and you may never come to common ground. This is OK. Respect is key here."



I think we're getting somewhere.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

....not to mention the question of "what is?" the Torah in the first place. This is part of the problem- one man's Torah observance is "not Jewish enough" or "too Jewish" or "too grace alone" for another.

People just need to back off from judging each others' personal practices.

Pretty much.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

"People have different opinions and beliefs. It is fine to share yours with the understanding that they will also share theirs - and you may never come to common ground. This is OK. Respect is key here.".

 

[anisavta]

Some see some you of your folks observance and think your one law or two house, how does that hit you all?

Makes me shake my head and wonder the motivation for some to need to label anyone they don't agree with or understand. I see it as a control issue. "If you don't fit into my neat package - then I'll fit you into my own perception".

 

[Chaplain David]

The part I bolded, the only thing I would word differently is to add "People have different opinions and beliefs. It is fine to share yours with the understanding that they will also share theirs - and you may never come to common ground. This is OK. Respect is key here."
I think we're getting somewhere.

I agree Sister MessianicMommy,

Respect, yes! Not so quick or sharp with our tongues but acting like and posting in a manner what we know in our hearts, that the other is our brother or sister in Christ (Messiah), not an enemy.

I have also found that giving someone the benefit of the doubt, or said in another way, posting deferentially is helpful. There is no reason one cannot speak their truth, and the other their truth, and be friends while doing it and depart as friends.

Shalom

 

[Tishri1]

If you keep dividing the pie you will end up with nothing. The term ephramite is offencive. And no one here is a member of the Sacred Name movement.

While we are at it can you all list names that are offensive to you that would be good to let folks know

 

[Tishri1]

Also topics not up to debate, like kosher diet could be one, debating if you all should be or should not be on kosher diets is similar to debating Torah but many folks need examples and if we had a list of maybe the top 5 offenders that would be great!

Do you all remember the admin "redheadedstepchild"? She thought of that suggestion as she started on staff helping mod MJ years ago and knows a bit of what is ,or was ok back then, she will help in here too after she gets back from her vacation/LOA