St. Patrick kept the 7th Day Sabbath!

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by TruthWave7 The majority have always been wrong. Sunday gradually gained traction in Christian history not because of a Scripture basis, but because tradition crept into the church mostly via the growth of Roman Catholicism and its enormous amount of man made traditions, of which Sunday was its masterpiece!

No worshipping on Sunday can be shown to be mid 1st Century with the Bible no less.

Not according to the sabbatarian SDAs and MJs, and those Sects appear to constititue a minority of Christianity if I am not mistaken, which begs the question can the minority be correct and the majority be wrong in this case.
Help me LORD! I torn betwix the 2!

 

[3 Angels Messages]

The whole thing seems weird to me when I think about it. We have our SDA friends constantly insisting that the test of true fidelity to God is Sabbath observance in the way they keep it, but when it comes to a dozen other very foundational beliefs that mark traditional Christianity, they either don't care to join with us or, in any case, never talk about it. I can't bring myself to believe that if I worship on the right day of the week, much of the rest of what we know from the Bible is not worth considering.

Would you be able to name a few "very other foundational beliefs that mark 'traditional' [shudders at that word] Christianity?" Not that we have to discuss them here, in this place, since the OP is sort specific, but possibly for future thread topics?

The whole Bible is worth considering, and that includes the 4th Commandment, the 7th Day Sabbath of the Lord thy God, as it directly deals with Prophecy, Salvation, Redemption, Creation, etc.

 

[Cribstyl]

The majority have always been wrong. Sunday gradually gained traction in Christian history not because of a Scripture basis, but because tradition crept into the church mostly via the growth of Roman Catholicism and its enormous amount of man made traditions, of which Sunday was its masterpiece!

Tellings the historical truth can help us to sort things out. The same article you quoted from says that St Patrick also kept Sunday.
Bottom line is, you're spreading falsehood.

 

[Lysimachus]

That's not the point. The point is that it was never wrong to assemble for worship on Sundays, and it wasn't the "Christian Sabbath." No commandment was needed.

There is nothing wrong to assemble for worship on Sundays, only if it is being done as a "meeting", but not regular "Church Service" in place of the Sabbath. But the Sabbath is God's Holy Day of rest where we are to distinguish it from the other days. If you treat Sunday sacred just like you do the Sabbath, you are trying to sanctify another day that God never made Holy.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

There is nothing wrong to assemble for worship on Sundays, only if it is being done as a "meeting", but not regular "Church Service" in place of the Sabbath. But the Sabbath is God's Holy Day of rest where we are to distinguish it from the other days.
If you treat Sunday sacred just like you do the Sabbath, you are trying to sanctify another day that God never made Holy.

My goodness.....this topic has been discussed ad-nauseum since before I got on CF

http://www.christianforums.com/t1248170/
Sunday vs Saturday, Sabbath?
15th February 2005, 12:26 PM

TESTING THE FAITH
[SIZE=+2]Sunday, holy Sunday?
[SIZE=+1]Pastor resurrects Sabbath debate[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]with $1 million reward[/SIZE]
[/SIZE]

I am yet to see anyone claim the $1,000,000

 

[listed]

Not according to the sabbatarian SDAs and MJs, and those Sects appear to constititue a minority of Christianity if I am not mistaken, which begs the question can the minority be correct and the majority be wrong in this case.
Help me LORD! I torn betwix the 2!

I hope you accept the Scripture LLoJ. If you do, I Corinthians was written around 55 AD. Chapter 16 has the Christians meeting on Sunday or the First day of the week. It states that the churches of Galatia are doing this as well. Yes I understand the argument that they were keeping things at home. That is certianly not what the text states. You get into the Greek so use it here. Please tell us what you find. It wouldn't be accepted if I said it. I would focus on the word thēsaurizō translated store. This is a commercial word and doesn't match up with the piggy bank at home if one considers the language of the text. Carefully examine the first 4 verses of 16. The arguement is that they were to store at home. But then would it be a collection in one place when Paul gets to Corinth? Is Paul going to each home for the collection? No. He is going to get the collection from the church and not each man's home. You get the idea where I'm going with this? I contend that the by him indicates voluntary as in whosoever will. Paul later varifies this by saying it isn't a command.

 

[listed]

Would you be able to name a few "very other foundational beliefs that mark 'traditional' [shudders at that word] Christianity?" Not that we have to discuss them here, in this place, since the OP is sort specific, but possibly for future thread topics?

The whole Bible is worth considering, and that includes the 4th Commandment, the 7th Day Sabbath of the Lord thy God, as it directly deals with Prophecy, Salvation, Redemption, Creation, etc.

Then why won't you consider all the Scripture? I seriously doubt your sincere interest in all the Scripture or even the truth.

 

[listed]

Tellings the historical truth can help us to sort things out. The same article you quoted from says that St Patrick also kept Sunday.
Bottom line is, you're spreading falsehood.

You're on the mark. He can't say he doesn't know better as long as he has been posting in CF both as Truthwave7 and BrightCandle.

 

[listed]

There is nothing wrong to assemble for worship on Sundays, only if it is being done as a "meeting", but not regular "Church Service" in place of the Sabbath. But the Sabbath is God's Holy Day of rest where we are to distinguish it from the other days. If you treat Sunday sacred just like you do the Sabbath, you are trying to sanctify another day that God never made Holy.

The truth s that you don't observe the Sabbath of th eLord thy God.

Do you conduct business on the sabbath you claim to observe? Remember the 9th commandment before posting.

 

[3 Angels Messages]

Then why won't you consider all the Scripture? I seriously doubt your sincere interest in all the Scripture or even the truth.

Hello "listed",

I am sorry you feel this way, but perhaps spending some time with me by PM in the scriptures, in discussion, on any subject of the scriptures that you would like to begin with, may change your mind about me and the sincere interest in "all the Scripture" and "the Truth" and to follow it?

If no, then which part of the scripture specifically did you have in mind?

...as for Truth...

"Pilate saith unto him, What is truth? ..." [John 18:38;p]

Truth, is defined by the scriptures:

"Thy righteousness [is] an everlasting righteousness, and thy law [is] the truth." [Psalms 119:142]

"Thou [art] near, O LORD; and all thy commandments [are] truth." [Psalms 119:151]

"Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth." [John 17:17]

"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." [John 14:6]

"This is he that came by water and blood, [even] Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth." [1 John 5:6]

"All the paths of the LORD [are] mercy and truth unto such as keep his covenant and his testimonies." [Psalms 25:10]

"[He is] the Rock, his work [is] perfect: for all his ways [are] judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right [is] he." [Deuteronomy 32:4]

Just for those interested, a great deal of Truth, as given in and from the scriptures...

...Pearl Trees Of Life...

 

[listed]

My goodness.....this topic has been discussed ad-nauseum since before I got on CF

http://www.christianforums.com/t1248170/
Sunday vs Saturday, Sabbath?
15th February 2005, 12:26 PM

TESTING THE FAITH
[SIZE=+2]Sunday, holy Sunday?
[SIZE=+1]Pastor resurrects Sabbath debate[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]with $1 million reward[/SIZE]
[/SIZE]

If I recall corrcetly our friend Stryder offered this same deal and quickly withdrew on proof. I saw some one else offer 5,000,000 blessings to anyone proving their point. It grew to 500,000,000 and still no proof. Oh some offered spoof and half hearted evidence easily refutted if I recall. I wonder if we can get them to make the offer anew?

 

[Lysimachus]

The truth s that you don't observe the Sabbath of th eLord thy God.

Do you conduct business on the sabbath you claim to observe? Remember the 9th commandment before posting.

I do no business on Sabbath, and it has been this way since the day I was born. Sabbath is a joyful, relaxing day. A refreshing day. I look forward it every week. Sabbath is a day to praise God, to fellowship, to press together with other brothers and sisters, to take nature walks, to sing, to enjoy a wonderful meal.

We do our best to get everything out of the way before Sabbath so we can bask in His rest. We bask in the blessing that comes with His Holy Sabbath.

It has a sanctifying influence on the soul that people are missing out when they refuse to keep it holy.

If God knew that even the Jews could not keep it Holy (since you say nobody can keep it holy), then was God so dumb to make the rule in the first place if He knew nobody could keep it?

That's a pretty dumb version of a God if you ask me.

The fact is, God looks at the heart, and He sees whether you are putting forth all your God-given effort, despite your shortcomings. Christ's blood is sufficient for those who strive, despite their fallings.

It is "willful" transgression that there is no more sacrifice for sins (Heb. 10:26). We live up to according to the knowledge we have received.

When we "willfully" say "since I can't keep the law perfectly anyway, I'm not going to even try", God right there sees that your heart is not where it ought to be. That your heart is in contempt against His Holy Precepts, and that deep inside, you really do not want to do what is right, and you are not converted.

But, if you truly love God with all your heart, a converted person will say "I'm going to do my best, and I know God can help me!" Despite your shortcomings, God will see your heart, and He will bless you and strengthen you by His Grace.

It is very simple. Follow Jesus. Obey Him. Strive to keep all 10 of His commandments faithfully, and He will help you if you really want it.

This is my earnest plea.

 

[listed]

Hello "listed",

I am sorry you feel this way, but perhaps spending some time with me by PM in the scriptures, in discussion, on any subject of the scriptures that you would like to begin with, may change your mind about me and the sincere interest in "all the Scripture" and "the Truth" and to follow it?

If no, then which part of the scripture specifically did you have in mind?

...as for Truth...

"Pilate saith unto him, What is truth? ..." [John 18:38;p]

Truth, is defined by the scriptures:

"Thy righteousness [is] an everlasting righteousness, and thy law [is] the truth." [Psalms 119:142]

"Thou [art] near, O LORD; and all thy commandments [are] truth." [Psalms 119:151]

"Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth." [John 17:17]

"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." [John 14:6]

"This is he that came by water and blood, [even] Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth." [1 John 5:6]

"All the paths of the LORD [are] mercy and truth unto such as keep his covenant and his testimonies." [Psalms 25:10]

"[He is] the Rock, his work [is] perfect: for all his ways [are] judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right [is] he." [Deuteronomy 32:4]

Just for those interested, a great deal of Truth, as given in and from the scriptures...

...Pearl Trees Of Life...

I've done what you suggest with others to no avail. If you can do it privately you can do it publicly. It is impossible for you to prove the sabbath is a requirement for the Christian. And you certianly can't prove it is a requirement for salvation. I've been all up and down the SDA argument. I know it well. So make your move. I'll be most happy to engage you publicly.

Is this true - 17For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

Yes I love John 14:6. Notice is doesn't say the law including the ten commandments.

You should also consider John 10:1-9

1Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.
2But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep.
3To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.
4And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.
5And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.
6This parable spake Jesus unto them: but they understood not what things they were which he spake unto them.
7Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.
8All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.
9I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.

 

[listed]

I do no business on Sabbath, and it has been this way since the day I was born. Sabbath is a joyful, relaxing day. A refreshing day. I look forward it every week. Sabbath is a day to praise God, to fellowship, to press together with other brothers and sisters, to take nature walks, to sing, to enjoy a wonderful meal.

We do our best to get everything out of the way before Sabbath so we can bask in His rest. We bask in the blessing that comes with His Holy Sabbath.

It has a sanctifying influence on the soul that people are missing out when they refuse to keep it holy.

If God knew that even the Jews could not keep it Holy (since you say nobody can keep it holy), then was God so dumb to make the rule in the first place if He knew nobody could keep it?

That's a pretty dumb version of a God if you ask me.

The fact is, God looks at the heart, and He sees whether you are putting forth all your God-given effort, despite your shortcomings. Christ's blood is sufficient for those who strive, despite their fallings.

It is "willful" transgression that there is no more sacrifice for sins (Heb. 10:26). We live up to according to the knowledge we have received.

When we "willfully" say "since I can't keep the law perfectly anyway, I'm not going to even try", God right there sees that your heart is not where it ought to be. That your heart is in contempt against His Holy Precepts, and that deep inside, you really do not want to do what is right, and you are not converted.

But, if you truly love God with all your heart, a converted person will say "I'm going to do my best, and I know God can help me!" Despite your shortcomings, God will see your heart, and He will bless you and strengthen you by His Grace.

It is very simple. Follow Jesus. Obey Him. Strive to keep all 10 of His commandments faithfully, and He will help you if you really want it.

This is my earnest plea.

I see. I don't seek to attack you in the least. I did ask you to consider the 9th before answering. I see you didn't at least very well.

I see that you claim to be an American. Is this true? If it is I wonder if you use electricity as it comes to you through a meter or if you run from stored electricity in a battery bank?

I ask you what do the stone tablets say as recorded in Ex 20:8-11. For our convinence -

8Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
11For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Now let me ask who is the servant within they gates? Can some one deliver goods and services for your use and not be withing your gates? Technically yes, but in reality no because of the electric meter and transmission lines. How is that power plant generating this electricity for your convience run? By itself. Are you not controling them and requiring them to work and for you by accepting those goods on your sabbath? Are there other options yes. Now is that refrigerator working serving you? Is it not really then your servant or animal you're requiring to work against the clear command of the stone tablets?

Do you walk to sabbath services or do you mount your ass (donkey/horse) that is already saddled called a vehicle? If you didn't have a vehicle and we still used animals for transportation would the commandment apply? What do the stone tablets say? Does the spirit of the law have any meaning to you? I got this phrase talking with SDA folks just like you. BTW I've been doing this before the turn of the century. I show 310,000,000 plus blessings. Ihave more than 572,000,000 in my savings. I'll put them all up if and disappear if you can beat me. You want to give it a go?

I've seen this very argument used here in GT before. I rather love it. It is a very valid argument. The only defense you have is to deny the spirit and intention of the law including the ten commandments. It is called legalism. It is used to avoid the truth just like the pharisees Jesus spoke with.

This is just about your first paragraph. I offer proof of what God was doing with - 32For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all. Rom 11 What more do you need to prove that God issued the ten commandments for the explicit purpose of violation? The verse shows both cause and reason.

I reading the Bible one can easily see if looking that 10For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little: is indeed true. The plan of salvation was a process completed at the cross with the resurrection of Jesus.

Hey I'm just getting warmed up and the post is way to long now. I'll take a break.

 

[3 Angels Messages]

I've done what you suggest with others to no avail. If you can do it privately you can do it publicly. It is impossible for you to prove the sabbath is a requirement for the Christian. And you certianly can't prove it is a requirement for salvation. I've been all up and down the SDA argument. I know it well. So make your move. I'll be most happy to engage you publicly.

Is this true - 17For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

Yes I love John 14:6. Notice is doesn't say the law including the ten commandments.

You should also consider John 10:1-9...

Well, the invitation is always open.

Could you define "SDA argument"?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Well, the invitation is always open.

Could you define "SDA argument"?

Ummm....an arguement with an SDA

.

 

[Pythons]

I do no business on Sabbath, and it has been this way since the day I was born. Sabbath is a joyful, relaxing day. A refreshing day. I look forward it every week. Sabbath is a day to praise God, to fellowship, to press together with other brothers and sisters, to take nature walks, to sing, to enjoy a wonderful meal.

We do our best to get everything out of the way before Sabbath so we can bask in His rest. We bask in the blessing that comes with His Holy Sabbath.

It has a sanctifying influence on the soul that people are missing out when they refuse to keep it holy.

If God knew that even the Jews could not keep it Holy (since you say nobody can keep it holy), then was God so dumb to make the rule in the first place if He knew nobody could keep it?

That's a pretty dumb version of a God if you ask me.

The fact is, God looks at the heart, and He sees whether you are putting forth all your God-given effort, despite your shortcomings. Christ's blood is sufficient for those who strive, despite their fallings.

It is "willful" transgression that there is no more sacrifice for sins (Heb. 10:26). We live up to according to the knowledge we have received.

When we "willfully" say "since I can't keep the law perfectly anyway, I'm not going to even try", God right there sees that your heart is not where it ought to be. That your heart is in contempt against His Holy Precepts, and that deep inside, you really do not want to do what is right, and you are not converted.

But, if you truly love God with all your heart, a converted person will say "I'm going to do my best, and I know God can help me!" Despite your shortcomings, God will see your heart, and He will bless you and strengthen you by His Grace.

It is very simple. Follow Jesus. Obey Him. Strive to keep all 10 of His commandments faithfully, and He will help you if you really want it.

This is my earnest plea.

Do you believe that if you ate pork three times a day on the sabbath that you would be keeping the day holy?
...Let's say it was already cooked so you didn't need to gather wood for a fire.
...I would like you to answer this question.

 

[Cribstyl]

I do no business on Sabbath, and it has been this way since the day I was born. Sabbath is a joyful, relaxing day. A refreshing day. I look forward it every week. Sabbath is a day to praise God, to fellowship, to press together with other brothers and sisters, to take nature walks, to sing, to enjoy a wonderful meal.

We do our best to get everything out of the way before Sabbath so we can bask in His rest. We bask in the blessing that comes with His Holy Sabbath.

It has a sanctifying influence on the soul that people are missing out when they refuse to keep it holy.

If God knew that even the Jews could not keep it Holy (since you say nobody can keep it holy), then was God so dumb to make the rule in the first place if He knew nobody could keep it?

That's a pretty dumb version of a God if you ask me.

The fact is, God looks at the heart, and He sees whether you are putting forth all your God-given effort, despite your shortcomings. Christ's blood is sufficient for those who strive, despite their fallings.

It is "willful" transgression that there is no more sacrifice for sins (Heb. 10:26). We live up to according to the knowledge we have received.

When we "willfully" say "since I can't keep the law perfectly anyway, I'm not going to even try", God right there sees that your heart is not where it ought to be. That your heart is in contempt against His Holy Precepts, and that deep inside, you really do not want to do what is right, and you are not converted.

But, if you truly love God with all your heart, a converted person will say "I'm going to do my best, and I know God can help me!" Despite your shortcomings, God will see your heart, and He will bless you and strengthen you by His Grace.

It is very simple. Follow Jesus. Obey Him. Strive to keep all 10 of His commandments faithfully, and He will help you if you really want it.

This is my earnest plea.

Your reason for keeping the sabbath sounds tempting and awesome, thanks for sharing.

The reason some dont agree is because God has called us to Honor His word above His name. His word commands this generation to Honor His Son rather than His title as the creator, (who worked six days and rested on the seventh. )
God commands us to be believe in His Son. The doctrine of faith is all about belief in the person of Jesus Christ. He is also the creator.

Christ commanded baptism to those who believe in Him and joins His church.
Christ told us to take communuion to remember Him.

The significance of the transfiguration is more that some people want know about. Peter wanted to enshrine Moses for giving us the law and Isaiah cheif of all the prophets; who tells of things to come..... God stopped Peter's speech to say, This is my Son, Hear Him.
We need to invest in every word that Jesus spoke in the scriptures to know the truth that sets us free.
Jesus have given us two commandment to keep, and we should obey them faithfully.

(If you pledge to keep the sabbath is between you and God, we should not judge you...
Condemning the worship to God of others is a trick from the devil.)
CRIB

 

[TruthWave7]

Tellings the historical truth can help us to sort things out. The same article you quoted from says that St Patrick also kept Sunday.
Bottom line is, you're spreading falsehood.

The real bottom line is that I'm exposing the falsehood that Sunday proponents promote, namely, that Sabbath keeping was discarded right after Jesus' because the "New Covenant" was then in force. But, the evidence of the history of the first centuries shows the contrary, in that there is ample evidence of the early Christians keeping Sabbath, and very little evidence of Sunday keeping.

 

[TruthWave7]

Do you believe that if you ate pork three times a day on the sabbath that you would be keeping the day holy?
...Let's say it was already cooked so you didn't need to gather wood for a fire.
...I would like you to answer this question.

You love to play foolish little word games to divert attention from "elephant standing in the middle of the room", namely, that you know that there is no Commandment from God to keep the Sunday holy, except from church tradition, while there is the 4th Commandment written by the finger of God to
keep the Sabbath holy. Why do you refuse to obey what God clearly asks of you? What is it that is holding you back from simply obey what our loving God asks of you? In light of all that Jesus has done for you, can you not keep the Sabbath holy, and all the other 9 Commandments as well?