Praying for tragedy

Mling

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I disagree. But I can see how what you infer could be the case. That is often a problem with the written word, no body language, no facial expressions, no inflection.

I think the OP said wait for tragedy to strike, that part is rather negative and fits what you. But is also said let them see Jesus working through you. I see that as saying let your actions and unconditinal help speak at that point. The 2 ideas pull in opposite directions.

EDIT: Oops it does not say wait, it just says be there. Nothing that implies don't be there before tragedy.

After rereading I'm thinking more and more that how I would view the phrase, likely taken out of context, depends heavily on hte character of the person saying it.

I'm taking it in the context of considering the people who are usually targeted by Christian evangelism: children, most heavily, but also people who are reeling from tragedy or major life changes (18 year olds fresh out of home are a major target audience) addicts, people suffering from diseases (sometimes with the promise that their ailment will go away once they convert), members of primitive tribes--who are targetted despite having *no* frame of reference that would allow them to understand Christianity, but are likely to say "yes! Yes!" To anything that the near-godlike people with the fancy machines have.

The list goes on and includes lots of people who Christians claim are targeted because they are most in need of support, but take a look at the negative space. The people least targeted by attempts at conversion (as opposed to attack) are well-educated, emotionally stable, happy, healthy atheists. Interestingly, these are the people who most christians would say are most deceived by Satan or "the world" and most in need of spiritual guidance, and yet they are the people least likely to be offered it and most likely to be attacked.

Why? The number one difference I see between those extremes is that the people least likely to be targeted by conversion attempts are the most able to think clearly and rationally. The most likely to be targeted are the ones who are either incapable of mature, capable, rational thought (children, and people with certain illnesses) and people who are in a life position where they're likely to grab eagerly or desperately at anything they're offered (people reeling from tragedy or life change, ill people and their families, and people with little exposure to the modern world.)

I am fully aware that most Christians really do believe that by targeting vulnerable people, they're being nurturing and supportive. That doesn't make it any less predatory. I've known sexual predators who work on similar mo's: "she's young! Sure, she seems hesitant and she doesn't actually know what decisions I'm making for her, but it's for the best. She'd make bad decisions if I let her control her own life, so I'm just going to present things in ways that...'encourage' her to make the decisions I know are best for.her. she needs my guidance!"

Not *knowing* you're a predator doesn't make you less of one. Targeting people who are vulnerable and trying to coerce them into making decisions based on your own wants instead of their's is what makes a person a predator, and that's also the core of evangelism.
 
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GA777

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On how to convert an atheist to Christianity:

"Be there when tragedy strikes and let him see jesus working through you."

Should Christians be secretly rooting for tragedy to befall atheists so that they can convert them to Christianity?

Depends what tragedy. And no I don't root for it to happen unless it seems the only way because souls matter more than the flesh and the body, the joyful everlasting life matters much more than this one etc. etc.
Any Christian would never root for the death of a soul before its salvation no matter the reason.

And many times tragedy works much better, because we people tend to normally look to what benefits us, and to our selfish needs and desires in this world that we decide not to imagine or think about the 2nd one or about God or Jesus who will prevent us from desiring what we see here. We get so attached to this world despite the bad moments we experience and will remain attached to it unless something different happens changing the path or the thought about the path of the future. And tragedy here works much better.
 
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JGG

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Depends what tragedy. And no I don't root for it to happen unless it seems the only way because souls matter more than the flesh and the body, the joyful everlasting life matters much more than this one etc. etc.
Any Christian would never root for the death of a soul before its salvation no matter the reason.

I've watched Christians dance on the grave of a dead gay teen. In fact, one was the boy's father. I know Christians who have celebrated the death of a Jew because they were Jewish. I happen to know you're wrong.

And many times tragedy works much better, because we people tend to normally look to what benefits us, and to our selfish needs and desires in this world that we decide not to imagine or think about the 2nd one or about God or Jesus who will prevent us from desiring what we see here. We get so attached to this world despite the bad moments we experience and will remain attached to it unless something different happens changing the path or the thought about the path of the future. And tragedy here works much better.

So then shouldn't Christians pray for tragedy? Think about the benefits for potential for salvation with another 9/11, Hurrican Katrina, or Oklahoma City bombing!
 
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GA777

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I've watched Christians dance on the grave of a dead gay teen. In fact, one was the boy's father. I know Christians who have celebrated the death of a Jew because they were Jewish. I happen to know you're wrong.



So then shouldn't Christians pray for tragedy? Think about the benefits for potential for salvation with another 9/11, Hurrican Katrina, or Oklahoma City bombing!

Do I need to reexplain you again what the term "Christian" means?


Do you know what salvation is and how it can be accomplished?
 
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JGG

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Do I need to reexplain you again what the term "Christian" means?

According to CF, this is what qualifies:

The Nicene Creed (with scriptural references)

We believe in (Romans 10:8-10; 1John 4:15)
ONE God, (Deuteronomy 6:4, Ephesians 4:6)
the Father (Matthew 6:9)
Almighty, (Exodus 6:3)
Maker of Heaven and Earth, (Genesis 1:1)
and of all things visible and invisible. (Colossians 1:15-16)

And in ONE Lord Jesus Christ, (Acts 11:17)
the Son of God, (Mathew 14:33; 16:16)
the Only-Begotten, (John 1:18; 3:16)
Begotten of the Father before all ages. (John 1:2)
Light of Light; (Psalm 27:1; John 8:12; Matthew 17:2,5)
True God of True God; (John 17:1-5)
Begotten, not made; (John 1:18)
of one essence with the Father (John 10:30)
by whom all things were made; (Hebrews 1:1-2)
Who for us men and for our salvation (1Timothy 2:4-5)
came down from Heaven, (John 6:33,35)
and was incarnate of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary, (Luke 1:35)
and became man. (John 1:14)
And was crucified for us (Mark 15:25; 1Cointhians 15:3)
under Pontius Pilate, (John 19:6)
and suffered, (Mark 8:31)
and was buried. (Luke 23:53; 1Corinthians 15:4)
And the third day He rose again, according to the Scriptures. (Luke 24:1 1Corinthians 15:4)
And ascended into Heaven, (Luke 24:51; Acts 1:10)
and sits at the right hand of the Father. (Mark 16:19; Acts 7:55)
And He shall come again with glory (Matthew 24:27)
to judge the living and the dead; (Acts 10:42; 2Timothy 4:1)
whose Kingdom shall have no end. (2 Peter 1:11)

And in the Holy Spirit, (John 14:26)
the Lord, (Acts 5:3-4)v
the Giver of Life, (Genesis 1:2)
Who proceeds from the Father; (John 15:26)
Who with the Father and the Son together is worshipped and glorified; (Matthew 3:16-17)
Who spoke through the prophets. (1 Samuel 19:20 ; Ezekiel 11:5,13)

In one, (Matthew 16: 18)
holy, (1 Peter 2:5,9)
catholic*, (Mark 16:15)
and apostolic Church. (Acts 2:42; Ephesians 2:19-22)

I acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins**. (Ephesians 4:5; Acts 2:38)
I look for the resurrection of the dead, (John 11:24; 1Corinthians 15:12-49; Hebrews 6:2; Revelation 20:5)
and the life of the world to come. (Mark 10:29-30)
AMEN. (Psalm 106:48)

I assure you that the people I'm speaking qualify under this description.
 
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GA777

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According to CF, this is what qualifies:

The Nicene Creed (with scriptural references)

We believe in (Romans 10:8-10; 1John 4:15)
ONE God, (Deuteronomy 6:4, Ephesians 4:6)
the Father (Matthew 6:9)
Almighty, (Exodus 6:3)
Maker of Heaven and Earth, (Genesis 1:1)
and of all things visible and invisible. (Colossians 1:15-16)

And in ONE Lord Jesus Christ, (Acts 11:17)
the Son of God, (Mathew 14:33; 16:16)
the Only-Begotten, (John 1:18; 3:16)
Begotten of the Father before all ages. (John 1:2)
Light of Light; (Psalm 27:1; John 8:12; Matthew 17:2,5)
True God of True God; (John 17:1-5)
Begotten, not made; (John 1:18)
of one essence with the Father (John 10:30)
by whom all things were made; (Hebrews 1:1-2)
Who for us men and for our salvation (1Timothy 2:4-5)
came down from Heaven, (John 6:33,35)
and was incarnate of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary, (Luke 1:35)
and became man. (John 1:14)
And was crucified for us (Mark 15:25; 1Cointhians 15:3)
under Pontius Pilate, (John 19:6)
and suffered, (Mark 8:31)
and was buried. (Luke 23:53; 1Corinthians 15:4)
And the third day He rose again, according to the Scriptures. (Luke 24:1 1Corinthians 15:4)
And ascended into Heaven, (Luke 24:51; Acts 1:10)
and sits at the right hand of the Father. (Mark 16:19; Acts 7:55)
And He shall come again with glory (Matthew 24:27)
to judge the living and the dead; (Acts 10:42; 2Timothy 4:1)
whose Kingdom shall have no end. (2 Peter 1:11)

And in the Holy Spirit, (John 14:26)
the Lord, (Acts 5:3-4)v
the Giver of Life, (Genesis 1:2)
Who proceeds from the Father; (John 15:26)
Who with the Father and the Son together is worshipped and glorified; (Matthew 3:16-17)
Who spoke through the prophets. (1 Samuel 19:20 ; Ezekiel 11:5,13)

In one, (Matthew 16: 18)
holy, (1 Peter 2:5,9)
catholic*, (Mark 16:15)
and apostolic Church. (Acts 2:42; Ephesians 2:19-22)

I acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins**. (Ephesians 4:5; Acts 2:38)
I look for the resurrection of the dead, (John 11:24; 1Corinthians 15:12-49; Hebrews 6:2; Revelation 20:5)
and the life of the world to come. (Mark 10:29-30)
AMEN. (Psalm 106:48)

I assure you that the people I'm speaking qualify under this description.

That's what every Christian must believe in. It's not the definition of Christianity or Christian

So, let's try again. Do you know what the term "Christian mean?
 
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GA777

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Should Christians pray that tragedy will not befall the atheist, knowing that this could mean the atheist will end up in hell forever?


eudaimonia,

Mark

Nope. Because all the happiness of this life is absolutely nothing compared to that of heaven. Not to mention the duration of each life.

So, Christians must find the best way leading every atheist to the eternal life, and praying is the most effective tool in doing so and can do what the human mind may not conceive.

And if happiness dominates any atheist's life, he would ~never care about anything beyond what he experiences in this life.
 
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GA777

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Someone who believes in all that. Adherent of Christianity.

So, let's try again. Do you know what the term "Christian mean?

You haven't answered this simple question. You must first understand the meaning of this term before using it except if you want it to mean whatever you like.
 
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disciple2011

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On how to convert an atheist to Christianity:

"Be there when tragedy strikes and let him see jesus working through you."

Should Christians be secretly rooting for tragedy to befall atheists so that they can convert them to Christianity?

Well let's see what the Christian King says about that?

Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Matthew 22:39

Now if you wish tragedy on someone else, so too you want it for yourself, right?
 
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Humble Pie

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On how to convert an atheist to Christianity:

"Be there when tragedy strikes and let him see jesus working through you."

Should Christians be secretly rooting for tragedy to befall atheists so that they can convert them to Christianity?

I'm uncomfortable with this.
 
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JGG

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You haven't answered this simple question. You must first understand the meaning of this term before using it except if you want it to mean whatever you like.

I did define it: An adherent of Christianity. Would you like to define it otherwise?
 
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Eudaimonist

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Nope. Because all the happiness of this life is absolutely nothing compared to that of heaven. Not to mention the duration of each life.

Hold on. I'm confused.

I had asked if Christians should pray that no tragedy should befall atheists in life, even though this may mean that the atheist might end up in Hell forever.

Does this mean that you believe that the Christian should pray that tragedy will befall atheists in life, so that they might possibly rethink their views?

So, Christians must find the best way leading every atheist to the eternal life, and praying is the most effective tool in doing so and can do what the human mind may not conceive.

Since when has an atheist ever become a Christian because others prayed for him? I'm guessing that number is precisely zero. Or are you talking about the atheist engaging in prayer?

And if happiness dominates any atheist's life, he would ~never care about anything beyond what he experiences in this life.

Do you pray that atheists will be unhappy in life?


eudaimonia,

Mark
 
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