Who goes to hell?

[dollarsbill]

If you are right, then I'll burn in hell forever.

We can't say we weren't warned.

Lucky for me that you are not right, and the Bible is right.

Don't you mean your own personal Bible that disagrees with nearly every English translation we have available?

 

[Sadalmelik]

If I'm wrong then I won't burn in Hell forever, will I? Can you say the same?

oh this is going to go that route, now? where we start condemning one another, i will take no part in that, i leave that to God, you are not God, so be careful where you are treading.....

 

[dollarsbill]

oh this is going to go that route, now? where we start condemning one another, i will take no part in that, i leave that to God, you are not God, so be careful where you are treading.....

I asked a simple question. In no way did I condemn you. The Truth can indeed be painful.

 

[dollarsbill]

further, there is no where in the bible that says, for those who dont believe that hell is the traditional orthodox view, that they are going to hell.....

And I didn't say any such thing.

so give me a break, or does the orthodox church provide a verse for that nonsense too....if so please provide the verse.? what one believes hell is or isnt has no bearing, imo, on whether or not one is right with God, so stop the baseless attacks.

There was no 'attack' so stop trying to manufacture one. Have you never read, "the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom"?

it only shows your lack of maturity when it comes to understanding scripture, we are already aware of this on your part, you dont need to convince us any more.

My lack of maturity?

 

[WillieH]

If I'm wrong then I won't burn in Hell forever, will I? Can you say the same?

I don't need to, as it is not a "right vs wrong" scenario... but you shall bear the SHAME you have DUE, for turning a deaf ear to the WORD -- Rev 3:18

And, I have diligently and thoroughly studied the subject for over 36 years, and KNOW for many more reasons than I have given to you to this moment, and BY SCRIPTURE easily prove that I have gained REVELATION as to this subject which is PAGAN in origin ...(not of my doing or will, but of YHVH)...

On the "right vs wrong" issue, ...I prefer to say that you are presently VEILED, not "wrong", and that My observation is "REVEALED" not "right"...

The only way either of us can call the other "wrong" is to make comparison to the other using our own observations. I have used Scripture to show the light concerning this VENGENT (which JESUS noted is NO LONGER -- Matt 5:13-48) and certainly UNREASONABLE myth.

My observation, does not COMPROMISE Scripture... but yours certainly does as I have already shown.

Would you answer a question?

If there IS a "HELL", then how can you call the MISSION of CHRIST a SUCCESS? For that mission is CLEARLY noted, to SAVE the WORLD (KOSMOS/Creation) -- John 3:16-17 -- 1 John 4:14 -- Luke 19:10 --- (not just "christians")

If the WORLD (and everything in it) is NOT SAVED, then the MISSION was an abject FAILURE -- Luke 19:10 -- as (according to YOU) MOST remain LOST...

As well as SCRIPTURE is compromised, for SIN was NOT TAKEN AWAY from the "WORLD" -- John 1:29 -- 2 Cor 5:19

Did you LEARN DB? Or in ruffled feather pride, turn a deaf ear to MUCH Scripture which was provided for you.

I noticed you provided, ah, ...NONE in response... ...Nor did you REFUTE anything I said... just a --- "Ne-ne-nene-ne" -- type response!

Hey it does not matter to me whether or not you hear and respond to TRUTH... as it shall be your undoing in the conclusion for you SHALL REAP what you SOW -- Gal 6:8

Though your works shall be TRIED in FIRE, and thereby suffer LOSS, ...even so the FIRE shall be your SAVIOR -- 1 Cor 3:15

I wish you the best... but ingrained TRADITIONALIST religion is a tough nut to crack (no pun intended!)... and IS that which makes the WORD of TRUTH of NONE EFFECT -- Mark 7:7-13

As far as a LIST of translations that agree with the term "HELL" concerning GEHENNA... more than 20, ...DISAGREE with that terminology -- here is a list forya:

Hell is Leaving the Bible Forever</b></font>

If you would, ...please explain by exampling from Scripture, ...the PEACE -- [Rom 15:33], LOVE [1 Cor 13:8] and REASON [Isaiah 1:18], that are found in doctrine of "HELL"...

It will be interesting to hear you defend your beloved doctrine, (and FUN to REFUTE it with the WORD)...



PEACE...

...willieH

 

[dollarsbill]

I don't need to, as it is not a "right vs wrong" scenario... but you shall bear the SHAME you have DUE, for turning a deaf ear to the WORD -- Rev 3:18

And, I have diligently and thoroughly studied the subject for over 36 years, and KNOW for many more reasons than I have given to you to this moment, and BY SCRIPTURE easily prove that I have gained REVELATION as to this subject which is PAGAN in origin ...(not of my doing or will, but of YHVH)...

On the "right vs wrong" issue, ...I prefer to say that you are presently VEILED, not "wrong", and that My observation is "REVEALED" not "right"...

The only way either of us can call the other "wrong" is to make comparison to the other using our own observations. I have used Scripture to show the light concerning this VENGENT (which JESUS noted is NO LONGER -- Matt 5:13-48) and certainly UNREASONABLE myth.

My observation, does not COMPROMISE Scripture... but yours certainly does as I have already shown.

Would you answer a question?

If there IS a "HELL", then how can you call the MISSION of CHRIST a SUCCESS? For that mission is CLEARLY noted, to SAVE the WORLD (KOSMOS/Creation) -- John 3:16-17 -- 1 John 4:14 -- Luke 19:10 --- (not just "christians")

If the WORLD (and everything in it) is NOT SAVED, then the MISSION was an abject FAILURE -- Luke 19:10 -- as (according to YOU) MOST remain LOST...

As well as SCRIPTURE is compromised, for SIN was NOT TAKEN AWAY from the "WORLD" -- John 1:29 -- 2 Cor 5:19

Did you LEARN DB? Or in ruffled feather pride, turn a deaf ear to MUCH Scripture which was provided for you.

I noticed you provided, ah, ...NONE in response... ...Nor did you REFUTE anything I said... just a --- "Ne-ne-nene-ne" -- type response!

Hey it does not matter to me whether or not you hear and respond to TRUTH... as it shall be your undoing in the conclusion for you SHALL REAP what you SOW -- Gal 6:8

Though your works shall be TRIED in FIRE, and thereby suffer LOSS, ...even so the FIRE shall be your SAVIOR -- 1 Cor 3:15

I wish you the best... but ingrained TRADITIONALIST religion is a tough nut to crack (no pun intended!)... and IS that which makes the WORD of TRUTH of NONE EFFECT -- Mark 7:7-13

As far as a LIST of translations that agree with the term "HELL" concerning GEHENNA... more than 20, ...DISAGREE with that terminology -- here is a list forya:

Hell is Leaving the Bible Forever</b></font>

If you would, ...please explain by exampling from Scripture, ...the PEACE -- [Rom 15:33], LOVE [1 Cor 13:8] and REASON [Isaiah 1:18], that are found in doctrine of "HELL"...

It will be interesting to hear you defend your beloved doctrine, (and FUN to REFUTE it with the WORD)...



PEACE...

...willieH

If I'm wrong I can't lose then!!! How about you? The fact is that God does indeed burn humans alive.

 

[squint]

If I'm wrong I can't lose then!!! How about you? The fact is that God does indeed burn humans alive.

Fact is there is not one single named person in the entire Bible shown to have or be having that fate.

In fact not even one single named person was threatened with such a fate.

The only conclusive fact of the Lake of Fire is that the devil and his messengers are going to be there.

Outside of that those who say for sure are only GUESSING.

The RCC can't even determine a single named person to be in or heading to hell. Not even they are that stupid.

s

 

[dollarsbill]

Fact is there is not one single named person in the entire Bible shown to have or be having that fate.

Read Luke 16

In fact not even one single named person was threatened with such a fate.

Irrelevant. The warnings are throughout the NT of the 'eternal, everlasting and unquenchable' fire.

The only conclusive fact of the Lake of Fire is that the devil and his messengers are going to be there.

Outside of that those who say for sure are only GUESSING.

Revelation 20:15
15 And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

The RCC can't even determine a single named person to be in or heading to hell. Not even they are that stupid.
s

Since I'm not Catholic I suggest you take that up with the Catholics.

 

[squint]

Read Luke 16

The statement stands. There is no named person, period. You can hunt til yer blue in the face and you won't find ONE NAMED HUMAN PERSON as an example of your so called FACT.

Irrelevant. The warnings are throughout the NT of the 'eternal, everlasting and unquenchable' fire.

I acknowledge that there is an eternal place of torment called 'the lake of fire.' I acknowledge that the devil and his messengers will assuredly be in that lake forever and ever.

I also hold that God Grace MAY just be more GREAT than you can conceive of for MANKIND and must logically make room for that and even PRAY for that as the scriptures direct us to pray.

Since I'm not Catholic I suggest you take that up with the Catholics.

Determinist Protestant 'a little more educated' scholars have come to the identical conclusion.

s

 

[dollarsbill]

The statement stands. There is no named person, period. You can hunt til yer blue in the face and you won't find ONE NAMED HUMAN PERSON as an example of your so called FACT.

You can ignore it if you like but it will still be there.

Luke 16:22-25 (NASB)
22 "Now the poor man died and was carried away by the angels to Abraham's bosom; and the rich man also died and was buried. 23 "In Hades he lifted up his eyes, being in torment, and *saw Abraham far away and Lazarus in his bosom. 24 "And he cried out and said, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus so that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool off my tongue, for I am in agony in this flame.' 25 "But Abraham said, 'Child, remember that during your life you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus bad things; but now he is being comforted here, and you are in agony.

I acknowledge that there is an eternal place of torment called 'the lake of fire.' I acknowledge that the devil and his messengers will assuredly be in that lake forever and ever.

Then you must also admit that many others will be there with them.

Matthew 25:41 (NASB)
41 "Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels;

I also hold that God Grace MAY just be more GREAT than you can conceive of for MANKIND and must logically make room for that and even PRAY for that as the scriptures direct us to pray.

Determinist Protestant 'a little more educated' scholars have come to the identical conclusion.

s

On Judgment Day God may have an entirely different view of who are "scholars".

 

[squint]

You can ignore it if you like but it will still be there.

Don't you pray for 'all men' as the scriptures demand?

1 Tim. 2:
1 I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;
2 For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.
3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

Some believers even believer our prayers WILL be answered in accord with THE WILL OF GOD in Christ.

Thankfully some do and believe it to be so.

Then you must also admit that many others will be there with them.

IF you stopped condemning people to burn alive forever, THEN God in Christ would reveal the identity of the 'rich man' to you.

Believers who can't love their neighbors as themselves won't be shown anything except how to save their own hides.

s

 

[dollarsbill]

Don't you pray for 'all men' as the scriptures demand?

Another Universalist?

Some believers even believer our prayers WILL be answered in accord with THE WILL OF GOD in Christ.

God answers all your prayers?

Thankfully some do and believe it to be so.

Believing in Universalism doesn't make it so.

IF you stopped condemning people to burn alive forever, THEN God in Christ would reveal the identity of the 'rich man' to you.

You're blaming me for the way others live? It doesn't work like that. Many will burn forever according to the lives they choose to live.

Believers who can't love their neighbors as themselves won't be shown anything except how to save their own hides.

s

And those who tell others that everyone will be saved will have blood on their hands on Judgment Day.

Ezekiel 33:8 (NASB)
8 "When I say to the wicked, 'O wicked man, you will surely die,' and you do not speak to warn the wicked from his way, that wicked man shall die in his iniquity, but his blood I will require from your hand.

You can add your artificial sweetener to God's message if you like, but it will still be artificial. The message of the Bible is repent or burn forever. Those who repent will receive mercy from God.

 

[squint]

Another Universalist?

I believe every vessel of dishonor will factually be in the Lake of Fire forever and EVER, eternally!

What is it you don't get?

God answers all your prayers?

We are commanded and we also (IF WE HAVE FAITH) should expect Godly aligned prayers in accord with THE WILL of God WILL be answered. Can't get any better prayer put up than that.

Believing in Universalism doesn't make it so.

What is it? Can't understand plain statements or what?

You're blaming me for the way others live?

OK Mr. Sinless.

Don't you even see that by thinking in your heart to kill someone IT'S MURDER? Don't you know this is a SIN to even think such a thought.

Now, here's you, thinking about not only death to other people, but BURNING THEM ALIVE FOREVER.

Can one think any LESS of their neighbors than that?

NOPE. It's the exact OPPOSITE of what we're supposed to do and practice.

It doesn't work like that. Many will burn forever according to the lives they choose to live.

Well, before I ascended to the ETERNAL JUDGMENT SEAT of God Almighty in sending people to burn alive forever, I might:

A.) Consider my own sins
B.) Look for at least ONE named example of such a position
C.) Remember that what I measure to someone else is going to happen to me

And those who tell others that everyone will be saved will have blood on their hands on Judgment Day.

Paul might be standing there with blood on his hands then, teaching this:

1 Timothy 4:10
For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

Or John the Apostle:

1 John 4:14
And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.

And seriously, don't you KNOW who is 'born of God' and 'knows God?'

1 John 4:7
Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God.

Don't you know these things? These 'scriptural FACTS?'

You are actually someone I feel quite sorry for for having to carry around all that 'eternal death and torture' inside your own heart unto other people and trying to call that FAITH which works THROUGH LOVE.

Poor guy.

s

 

[Sadalmelik]

I asked a simple question. In no way did I condemn you. The Truth can indeed be painful.

sorry, i took it the wrong way......but the only truth thats painful to me is knowing that many actually and truly believe that God would do what you suggest, to anyone. and that the mainstream christian doctrine continues to maintain their view on this.....despite the overwhelming evidence and many intelligent scholars have questioned just how accurate it actually is....the eternal hell idea is fading, and i give it about another 100 years or so, (if we make it that long), and it will no longer be the mainstream view.imo

 

[Sadalmelik]

I believe every vessel of dishonor will factually be in the Lake of Fire forever and EVER, eternally!

What is it you don't get?


We are commanded and we also (IF WE HAVE FAITH) should expect Godly aligned prayers in accord with THE WILL of God WILL be answered. Can't get any better prayer put up than that.


What is it? Can't understand plain statements or what?


OK Mr. Sinless.

Don't you even see that by thinking in your heart to kill someone IT'S MURDER? Don't you know this is a SIN to even think such a thought.

Now, here's you, thinking about not only death to other people, but BURNING THEM ALIVE FOREVER.

Can one think any LESS of their neighbors than that?

NOPE. It's the exact OPPOSITE of what we're supposed to do and practice.



Well, before I ascended to the ETERNAL JUDGMENT SEAT of God Almighty in sending people to burn alive forever, I might:

A.) Consider my own sins
B.) Look for at least ONE named example of such a position
C.) Remember that what I measure to someone else is going to happen to me


Paul might be standing there with blood on his hands then, teaching this:

1 Timothy 4:10
For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

Or John the Apostle:

1 John 4:14
And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.

And seriously, don't you KNOW who is 'born of God' and 'knows God?'

1 John 4:7
Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God.

Don't you know these things? These 'scriptural FACTS?'

You are actually someone I feel quite sorry for for having to carry around all that 'eternal death and torture' inside your own heart unto other people and trying to call that FAITH which works THROUGH LOVE.

Poor guy.

s

i concurr, and thats exactly what i thought, i really feel bad that dollarsbill seems to careless about anyone....i pray for all people to be saved and it would not make me feel good if anyone, inc my worst enemy ended up in hell, how would that make anyone feel good, or feel unaffected?, there are far too many "hooray for me, to bad for you " amongst us.....its a very poor attitude to have.

 

[squint]

i concurr, and thats exactly what i thought, i really feel bad that you seem to careless about anyone....i pray for all people to be saved and it would not make me feel good if anyone, inc my worst enemy ended up in hell, how would that make anyone feel good, or feel unaffected?, there are far too many "hooray for me, to bad for you " amongst us.....its a very poor attitude to have.

I would call that mindset being 'blinded IN MIND by the god of this world.' (2 Cor. 4:4)

 

[squint]

sorry, i took it the wrong way......but the only truth thats painful to me is knowing that many actually and truly believe that God would do what you suggest, to anyone. and that the mainstream christian doctrine continues to maintain their view on this.....despite the overwhelming evidence and many intelligent scholars have questioned just how accurate it actually is....the eternal hell idea is fading, and i give it about another 100 years or so, (if we make it that long), and it will no longer be the mainstream view.imo

I do believe eternal hell remains credible unto the devil and his messengers.

Now, where did Jesus show us all where these entities ARE?

s

 

[Sadalmelik]

I do believe eternal hell remains credible unto the devil and his messengers.

Now, where did Jesus show us all where these entities ARE?

s

i agree, i was only referring to humans whether saved or unsaved., the devil and his agents fate is sealed, and they are beyond repentance....it is not fair to compare us and the devil and his angels.......we are not the same at all. Jesus was sent to die for humans, not anyone else.....humans only.

 

[dollarsbill]

I believe every vessel of dishonor will factually be in the Lake of Fire forever and EVER, eternally!

Who/what are 'vessels of dishonor'?

What is it? Can't understand plain statements or what?

Yes I can, when they are not vague and evasive.

OK Mr. Sinless.

Why would you think I'm sinless?

Don't you even see that by thinking in your heart to kill someone IT'S MURDER? Don't you know this is a SIN to even think such a thought.

Thinking a thought is not sin. Desiring to sin is sin.

Now, here's you, thinking about not only death to other people, but BURNING THEM ALIVE FOREVER.

Can one think any LESS of their neighbors than that?

Warning of eternal consequences is love. That's why Jesus did it, as did many of the writers of the Bible.

Mark 9:43 (NASB)
43 "If your hand causes you to stumble, cut it off; it is better for you to enter life crippled, than, having your two hands, to go into hell, into the unquenchable fire,

NOPE. It's the exact OPPOSITE of what we're supposed to do and practice.

Ezekiel 3:18-19 (NASB)
18 "When I say to the wicked, 'You will surely die,' and you do not warn him or speak out to warn the wicked from his wicked way that he may live, that wicked man shall die in his iniquity, but his blood I will require at your hand. 19 "Yet if you have warned the wicked and he does not turn from his wickedness or from his wicked way, he shall die in his iniquity; but you have delivered yourself.

Paul might be standing there with blood on his hands then, teaching this:

No, Paul warned also.

1 Corinthians 6:9-10 (NASB)
9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.

Or John the Apostle:

John 3:36 (NASB)
36 "He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."

You are actually someone I feel quite sorry for for having to carry around all that 'eternal death and torture' inside your own heart unto other people and trying to call that FAITH which works THROUGH LOVE.

Don't feel sorry for me. Feel sorry for those who try to remove the doctrine of eternal punishment in the fire from the NT.

Revelation 22:19 (NASB)
19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his part from the tree of life and from the holy city, which are written in this book.

 

[Sadalmelik]

Revelation 22:19 (NASB)
19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his part from the tree of life and from the holy city, which are written in this book.




i think adding words would be of the same consequence, and by saying hell is an eternal hellfire where the wicked will spend eternity would also be adding words to Gods Word, so be careful what your wishing for.