Rick Santorum is NOT a Conservative

[NightHawkeye]

I think you failed when you called President Obama a proponent of "Totalitarian big government"
tulc(thinks if you can't get the first one right the rest will be off as well)

tulc believes Obama is for small libertarian government?

NHE is truly curious about this ...

 

[athenken]

Oh please. Paul has zero chance. All he can do is help Obama.

This remains to be seen. I think you underestimate the disdain many people in this country have for the major parties.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

Nice attack post. I've noticed though that most politicians have character flaws which can make them look really detestable.


Here's where the presidential candidates stand on the scale of big-government to little-government, left-to-right

Totalitarian big government --> Obama --> --> Romney, Gingrich, Santorum, Ron Paul --> libertarian small government.


Whaddaya think?

I think to use "totalitarian" to describe Obama is unhinged.

 

[NightHawkeye]

I think to use "totalitarian" to describe Obama is unhinged.

NHE wishes to respectfully point out to Archaeopteryx that it was tulc who associated the descriptor "totalitarian" with Obama. Any criticism of that association should be directed to tulc.

NHE merely depicted a continuum of the political spectrum: at the far left "Totalitarian big government" ... at the far right "libertarian small government". The candidates were ordered between the extremes as NHE judged the positions they've taken on governmental power and size.


To be clear, I don't believe that Obama has been totalitarian ... yet ... but he is all about big government.

 

[zoink]

I think it is a foregone conclusion, unless he decides against it, Ron Paul will run as an independant if he does not get the Republican Nod.

What makes you say this?

 

[jgarden]

If you're a conservative, Santorum is not your guy. His extreme record includes (And this list is not even complete):

• Voting to RAISE the debt ceiling five times;
• Voting with Ted Kennedy on multiple occasions to support the Big Labor Unions agenda;
• Supporting raising taxes on oil companies, which directly costs Americans more money out of their pockets at the gas pump;
• Urging more federal involvement in housing with Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac;
• Voting to create a brand new, unfunded entitlement, Medicare Part D, the largest expansion of entitlement spending since President Lyndon Johnson - creating $16 TRILLION in unfunded liabilities;
• Endorsing liberal Big Government RINOs like Arlen Specter over conservatives. Of course, Specter became a Democrat and worked hand-in-glove with President Obama to pass his radical agenda;
• Voting for Sarbanes-Oxley, which imposed dramatic new job-killing accounting regulations on businesses;
• Voting for gun control;
• Voting to give Social Security benefits to illegal aliens, while voting against an additional 1,000 border patrol agents;
• Voting to send hundreds of millions of taxpayer dollars to Planned Parenthood - the nation's largest provider of abortion – and to hand out hundreds of billions of dollars in foreign aid to enemies of Israel.
• Actually saying, "I'm not a deficit hawk anymore, I had to spend the surplus."
• He OPPOSED the right to work act and instead voted to give unions more control and hurt non-unionized workers.

Rick Santorum is NOT a conservative. With the exception of talking like a social conservative, he's a bigger liberal than Romney. He might as well be Barack Santorum!

As we all know, one piece of legislation can contain 1000's of pages and contain many different topics, so to be fair, it must be judged in its totality.

"Cherry picking" some parts of a bill while ignoring others can distort the voting record of any politician.

 

[athenken]

What makes you say this?

For one, he has run in at least the last two elections, if not more. Two, he has alluded to it a number of times during this campaign.

 

[zoink]

Two, he has alluded to it a number of times during this campaign.

Could you provide some examples of this?

 

[heymikey80]

“[I will] fight very strongly against Libertarian influence within the Republican Party and the Conservative movement. I don't think the Libertarians have it right when it comes to what the Constitution's all about. I don't think they have it right as to what our history is." — Rick Santorum

More 5-second sound bites. In the wider quote he points out that the issue revolves around how much anarchy the Constitution and indeed US history has allowed, versus that of political libertarians.

If libertarianism were the sole motivation of the Republican party there would be no Libertarian party. The fact is that the Constitution does limit certain personal actions. It is not a libertarian document; it is a limited-government document. And so Republicans are not strictly speaking libertarians, but advocates of limited government.

 

[Jase]

Santorum is a theocratic ultra social conservative. A very dangerous person. But apparently a lot of people here like the idea of the United States looking more like Iran under Ahmadinejad's rule.

 

[NightHawkeye]

Santorum is a theocratic ultra social conservative. A very dangerous person. But apparently a lot of people here like the idea of the United States looking more like Iran under Ahmadinejad's rule.

Let's explore that worst-case possibility then:

A. Santorum --> Ten commandments

B. Ahmadinejad --> Sharia law


Not sure that's a really useful comparison you've made, Jase. Also, I don't believe that Santorum is interested in legislating morality ... though he is a strong advocate of moral behavior. There really is a difference - known as "separation of church and state".

 

[TerranceL]

I think you failed when you called President Obama a proponent of "Totalitarian big government"
tulc(thinks if you can't get the first one right the rest will be off as well)

Gosh, he wants the Patriot act to be more powerful than it is, he supports murdering american citizens abroad on the accusation that they are terrorists, he's approved indefinate detention for american citizens.

If he's not for a totalitarian big government what would you call it?

 

[Desk trauma]

Let's explore that worst-case possibility then:

A. Santorum --> Ten commandments

B. Ahmadinejad --> Sharia law

Do you really want the state enforcing commandments 1-5?

Sharia and biblical law are quite similar, the only difference being that most Christians do not demand that the state enforce their bronze age legal code.

Not sure that's a really useful comparison you've made, Jase. Also, I don't believe that Santorum is interested in legislating morality ... though he is a strong advocate of moral behavior. There really is a difference - known as "separation of church and state".

Santorum is on record supporting laws against consentual sex between adults in private and stating that the state should be able to ban contraceptives how is that not wanting to legislate morality?

 

[Jase]

Let's explore that worst-case possibility then:

A. Santorum --> Ten commandments

B. Ahmadinejad --> Sharia law


Not sure that's a really useful comparison you've made, Jase. Also, I don't believe that Santorum is interested in legislating morality ... though he is a strong advocate of moral behavior. There really is a difference - known as "separation of church and state".

You do realize 99% of this country would have to be executed if we followed the 10 Commandments right?

And you contradicted yourself. Santorum is for Judeo-Christian laws being how the State operates. That by definition is in direct opposition to separation of church and state. He is therefore, quite in favor of legislating morality based on his personal beliefs, despite the fact that even most Christians (including Catholics) disagree with his views.

 

[heymikey80]

Santorum is a theocratic ultra social conservative. A very dangerous person. But apparently a lot of people here like the idea of the United States looking more like Iran under Ahmadinejad's rule.

It's simply not the case. Y'can't even get to there from here.

Western students claimed that Ronald Reagan was an ultra-right nazi who would bomb the Soviets, someone who would usher in Armageddon.

I don't put any stock in people hate-mongering without information.

One might just as readily point out that Obama has already taken over industries, dictated product lines, printed up tens of trillions of dollars, loaned tens of trillions more dollars, and frankly leveraged our future on an implausible sum of fiat dollars that will never be repaid.

I'm surprised we have any A in our bond rating at all, and I speculate that's only because the wash of new dollars permits the rollover dance to continue apace.

 

[NightHawkeye]

You do realize 99% of this country would have to be executed if we followed the 10 Commandments right?

You do realize that you've made an absurd statement, right?

Probably not ... given your age ... so perhaps a little education is in order.

There are very few penalties of death in the Bible (unlike the Koran, but I digress ... ) In general, those offenses which carry a death penalty are the same ones as today, the notable exception being adultery. However, under Christianity a much higher level of tolerance emerged, which we live under today, as Jesus exemplified at the mount of Olives:

John 8:1-11 Jesus went unto the mount of Olives. And early in the morning he came again into the temple, and all the people came unto him; and he sat down, and taught them. And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst, They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act. Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou? This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not. So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground. And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst. When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee? She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.
​

And you contradicted yourself. Santorum is for Judeo-Christian laws being how the State operates.

When Santorum says something really radical I'm sure that you will post it here so that we can see and judge it. Many will be interested ...

 

[Vylo]

Honestly I'm not too concerned about Santorum. Even Gingrich is more electable. Santorum will score big with some very conservative folks, and there will be plenty of energy behind the campaign, but the majority will not align with him.

 

[tulc]

You do realize that you've made an absurd statement, right?

Probably not ... given your age ... so perhaps a little education is in order.

There are very few penalties of death in the Bible (unlike the Koran, but I digress ... ) In general, those offenses which carry a death penalty are the same ones as today, the notable exception being adultery. However, under Christianity a much higher level of tolerance emerged, which we live under today, as Jesus exemplified at the mount of Olives:

John 8:1-11 Jesus went unto the mount of Olives. And early in the morning he came again into the temple, and all the people came unto him; and he sat down, and taught them. And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst, They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act. Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou? This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not. So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground. And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst. When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee? She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.
​

When Santorum says something really radical I'm sure that you will post it here so that we can see and judge it. Many will be interested ...

So...forgot that doing yard work on Saturday was punishable by death huh:

32 And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man gathering sticks upon the sabbath day. 33 And they that found him gathering sticks brought him unto Moses and Aaron, and unto all the congregation.
34 And they put him in ward, because it had not been declared what should be done to him.
35 And Jehovah said unto Moses, The man shall surely be put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp.
36 And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him to death with stones; as Jehovah commanded Moses.

tulc(knows most people do)

 

[conamer]

Do you really want the state enforcing commandments 1-5?

Sharia and biblical law are quite similar, the only difference being that most Christians do not demand that the state enforce their bronze age legal code.



Santorum is on record supporting laws against consentual sex between adults in private and stating that the state should be able to ban contraceptives how is that not wanting to legislate morality?

No, Christianity and Islam are exact opposites, it's no coicidence either. The only unforgiveable sin in Islam is to believe God has a son. Hmm, wonder why? In the bible that is a definition of anti-Christ. Islam is the anti-religion religion. It teaches what not to believe.

 

[conamer]

So...forgot that doing yard work on Saturday was punishable by death huh:

tulc(knows most people do)

Good thing we don't live under the Law, eh? Good thing Jesus didn't pick up a stone and nail the adulterous woman with it, eh? That play is really weak and old.