Yes and God did not create evil--man did. And yes God is good all the time. God is not evil and does not have to be evil because of your defintion problems.
Upvote
0
-
Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
-
CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.
No I mean man creates evil by being unloving. Initiating evil action is what creates evil. Being unloving to others is evil. God is always loving. God is not evil and never does evil.
Upvote
0
It is true that the existence of God is an assumption. Therefor God being good would also be an assumption. I do believe I have obseved God at work in my life and therefore I have observed God being good. For God to not answer every prayer and every need that might arise to be seen as being unloving is not reasonable. I think the Christian God is always loving. Someone misunderstand things about God does not prove God is unloving.
Upvote
0
Yep, I too cannot see any way to absolve responsibility of evil from God. After all, where does satan get the authority and power to carry out his evil schemes which God has outlined for him within the bible?
Upvote
0
razeontherock
Well-Known Member
You do realize that to be this Godly about it, means you have to take responsibility for knowing his devices, and defeating him with the power and authority vested in the believer?
Upvote
0
Sure, but it still doesn't absolve the responsibility for creating this evil to begin with. By all appearances, God is playing chess with Himself.
Last edited:
Upvote
0
I don't believe Satan exists. However if he does, his getting the ability to be evil would be the result of his getting the ability to be good. God gives us this ability. Our misuse of it is not God's responsibility. Also God does not outline for Satan evil schemes in the bible.
Upvote
0
lucaspa
Legend
I am guessing you are referring to Isaiah 45:6-7. I am going to submit that you are using a bad translation. Yes, the KJV does say "evil", but a better translation of the Hebrew to modern English is:
"so all the world from east to west will know there is no other God. I am the LORD, and there is no other. I create the light and make the darkness. I send good times and bad times. I, the LORD, am the one who does these things. "
For the people at the time, "evil" meant "bad times". We still use "evil" that way today, but only as a secondary meaning.
Yes, for the writers of the OT God did send "bad times" to Israel. I emphasized who the writers were because the concept of God was different then. At the time of the OT, deity was viewed as intimately connected with a particular tribe or nation. If you read Exodus, you see that the Egyptian gods exist, but Yahweh is more powerful. And partisan to the Hebrews.
What this means is that the fortunes of the nation reflect the power and even existence of the deity of that nation. All thru the early history of Israel, the "proof" of the existence of Yahweh is the survival, prosperity, and even expansion of Israel.
Then comes the Babylonian Conquest. Babylon totally defeats and occupies Israel. 10 of the 12 tribes are completely wiped out. Many people are dragged off to Babylon as slaves. This is an immense crisis of faith. By the rules, the people shoulddecide that Yahweh doesn't exist. However, one of the triumphs of Judaism is that the Hebrews decide Yahweh does exist. They make the tremendous intellecual and emotional leap that the existence of God is not tied to the fortunes of Israel. But this change to our modern concept of God goes thru several steps. The Hebrews have to grapple with the question: how can Yahweh have bad things happen to Israel? Isaiah and some of prophets propose one answer: that God punished Israel for being unrighteous. Another answer is that we have no right to judge God. You can see both of these if you go down to verse 9:
"What sorrow awaits those who argue with their Creator. Does a clay pot argue with its maker? Does the clay dispute with the one who shapes it, saying, 'Stop, you're doing it wrong!' Does the pot exclaim, 'How clumsy can you be?' "
What you must remember, seekingagnostic32, is that you can't take individual verses out of context. Either their textual context, or their particular historical and sociological contexts. This is against the rules for any text, including scripture. I'm afraid you did both. Even looking at verse 6, you see that Isaiah is reaffirming the existence of God. That is the main context for both the chapter and the book.
Upvote
0
lucaspa
Legend
Not really. God so loves us that He allows us free will. That is, our choices are real and they have real consequences. Yes, we have "power" in this respect. This is one of the main theological messages of Genesis 1: we have dominion over the earth. Whatever we do to the earth is as tho God were doing it, or "in his image".
In the standard story (because I am not sure the Milton version of Satan is either Biblical or correct), the angels too have free will. That means the free will to choose to disobey God and do things that are immoral and unethical -- "evil" if you choose to use that word.
This is not God "playing chess with Himself", but rather loving other creatures so much as to allow their lives to have meaning. Yes, once Satan choooses to oppose God and do "evil", then of course God will then try to counter that.
Upvote
0
Satan couldn't possibly posses free will, because he follows Gods word to the letter. Why would a free thinking, scheming, deceiving, age-old evil do exactly as the bible (God) says he will? It would be utterly absurd and idiotic.
"Hey, i know how i can get back at God and destroy his credibility! I'll fulfill every prophecy and revelation God foretells of me and behave like an evil mastermind. That way i'll give the people someone to hate and give more glory to God when he destroys me for it!" Surely this is some kind of joke.
I think satan is treated as a means to an end, like a disposable puppet in which people can direct all of their hate while God soaks up the love and admiration. If satan could only go off and make up his own schemes which are not outlined within the bible lol, then maybe he would get somewhere.
Better yet he could just kickback and do nothing! How would God be able to swoop in and save the day? Rapture? what for? Armageddon? Nope! Anti-christ? maybe next century! Seriously, what in the world would God do then? How would His word ever be fulfilled! After a couple thousand years of no action i think people would begin to realise nothing is coming and move on. The bible would be tarnished to say the least.
Alas this is not the case and satan is eager as ever to play along. God has given him the power and authority to do his part too, e.g mind-hacking, possessing people, shapeshifting, breathing fire?! So this still looks like chess to me. What I find troubling is despite the by-the-book actions of satan, God is still going to condemn him the worst possible fate! I think thats a lose-lose situation. Anyway i'm speculating but i think God's going to let the whites win!
Last edited:
Upvote
0
Thusia Zao
Living Sacrifice
Evil starts from the root of Free-Will. In order for God to love us He had to create free-will - to accept or deny that love. In Genesis 2, Adam and Eve chose to deny God and therefore sin was created.
So starts like this God is Love --> True love creates True Free-Will to deny or accept that love --> Free-Will chose to deny God and Evil is created.
God is all-knowing and He knew that we'd deny Him but that's why you sent His Son to die for us. We needed salvation and He planned it so we could get out.
So starts like this God is Love --> True love creates True Free-Will to deny or accept that love --> Free-Will chose to deny God and Evil is created.
God is all-knowing and He knew that we'd deny Him but that's why you sent His Son to die for us. We needed salvation and He planned it so we could get out.
Upvote
0
Well not believing works too. Actually God does outline evil schemes for him within the bible. Revelation is all about them, e.g anti-christ, mark of beast, arma, epic defeat etc. He also outlines how satan should behave towards human beings e.g keep christians paranoid about the voices in their head.
Upvote
0
Chany
Uncertain Absurdist
- Nov 29, 2011
- 6,428
- 228
- Gender
- Male
- Faith
- Agnostic
- Marital Status
- Single
- Politics
- US-Others
You know, why don't we just start at square one and approach this philosophically? I mean, you know, without the Bible? Seriously, it's amazing what one can find by simple logic and reasoning.
Upvote
0
I also do not believe in an inerrant bible. Further I think much of the bible is true but symbolic--i.e. words used in an attempt to explain spiritual things for which we have no words or point of reference to understand.
Upvote
0
endsdawn
Newbie
- Jan 31, 2012
- 18
- 3
- 40
- Faith
- Non-Denom
- Marital Status
- Single
- Politics
- US-Others
Consider this. Imagine you were forging a blade. You've got to put it through the extreme heat of a forge then beat the metal with a hammer to temper it into what it must become. If you were to lessen your seeming assault, the resulting blade would be worthless.
Sure, God puts us through a lot in this life. But in the end, those experiences are what help us grow. How we react to adversity is what is important. Besides, what is this finite life worth when compared to eternity? Put it in perspective and it becomes easier.
My two cents.
Sure, God puts us through a lot in this life. But in the end, those experiences are what help us grow. How we react to adversity is what is important. Besides, what is this finite life worth when compared to eternity? Put it in perspective and it becomes easier.
My two cents.
Upvote
0
Similar threads
