There is no OSAS

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B-74

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There is nothing bad in these thoughts that would tempt us...

Php 4:8 Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.
 
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sculleywr

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Well, my beliefs are not based on peoples experiences, but on what God says.

God says that ALL things work together for good for those that love the Lord. I don't know about you, but I believe Him.


If you love the Lord, and then later fall away to the point of perdition, or stop loving the Lord to the point of being severed in kinship, then the word is a lie.

Many will say that what happened to Ananias, and his wife Sapphira was not good. True, they experienced premature physical death, but they will appear with the Lord in glory.

Did they continually entrust themselves to Christ? I cannot say. Judas probably did at one time have love for Christ, or else Christ made a mistake and I cannot accept that idea. Judas did not continually entrust himself. He entrusted and the. Distrusted.
 
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B-74

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Did they continually entrust themselves to Christ? I cannot say. Judas probably did at one time have love for Christ, or else Christ made a mistake and I cannot accept that idea. Judas did not continually entrust himself. He entrusted and the. Distrusted.

Someone had to betray the Lord. Maybe God knew Judas, maybe he was chosen because God knew beforehand that Judas would betray the Lord. I'm only speculating though.
 
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squint

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Someone had to betray the Lord. Maybe God knew Judas, maybe he was chosen because God knew beforehand that Judas would betray the Lord. I'm only speculating though.

The betrayal was written of long before Judas was even born.

s
 
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truthHurts77

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Since the man accepted Christ, we agree he is saved.

If he were to become delusional and blame God for the sufferings of life, and turn from God rather than to God for assistance and a healthy mind-set and attitude with which to endure the trials, then his mental unwellness would be causing his irrational thoughts about God, and thus he would be definitely covered by "nothing" can separate us from the Love of God. (It's irrational to hate a God of Love to begin with...)

For God, in His infinite Love would realize that the man has become irrational and unstable in his thinking, but wouldn't hold that against Him, because He had accepted God's love, there is nothing the man could have done to be saved, and nothing he can do to stay saved, and nothing he can do to be unsaved..it's all about God and His love. :D


this is a lot of made up human theology.

if someone hates God and goes against his ways

he will end up in Hell &that is all there is 2 it

it is because he himself does not want God, not that God doesn't want him. God wants ALL his children, but they dont all want him

there is an account of Hell on the i-net... not sure which site and i am not saying i agree w/ all those ppl who say they have been to Hell - but there is nothing there that goes against the Bible, that i can see... and i have read the whole Bible... some parts over and over (NT mostly) (not that Catholics are sola scriptura... not hardly)

so anyway ppl at those sites ... well, there is this one story about a man who accepted Christ... became a preacher. But the love of $$ made him begin to speak things that were against Christ and the Word... He knew he was teaching falsehood but didn't care because he wanted ppl to come to his "church" Maybe most ppl wont go to a church that teaches hell fire & brimstone...

In any case, he was in HELL being tormented by the demons - and in fact his sufferings were a lot worse than others who ended up there, others who had blashphemed like he did

this is not a Catholic site (so why do i put stock in it??? well... whatever) but again,nothing is said there against the Word... i can try to find it (try 2 remember its name)

Then there is the account of Hell by St Faustina

she doesn't mention any particular kinds of ppl being there... but speaks of how utterly horrible it is and how even she could have ended up there because of her sins... she was a virgin and avoided sin like the plague.. I wonder if she ever in her life committed a mortal sin, yet she knew that she was barely saved from going to Hell.

then there is Jesus Himself who said that there are FEW who "find... the narrow way" to Heaven Mt 7
 
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B-74

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Mathew 18:21 Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times? 22 Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven. 23 Therefore is the kingdom of heaven likened unto a certain king, which would take account of his servants. 24 And when he had begun to reckon, one was brought unto him, which owed him ten thousand talents. 25 But forasmuch as he had not to pay, his lord commanded him to be sold, and his wife, and children, and all that he had, and payment to be made. 26 The servant therefore fell down, and worshipped him, saying, Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay thee all. 27 Then the lord of that servant was moved with compassion, and loosed him, and forgave him the debt. 28 But the same servant went out, and found one of his fellowservants, which owed him an hundred pence: and he laid hands on him, and took him by the throat, saying, Pay me that thou owest. 29 And his fellowservant fell down at his feet, and besought him, saying, Have patience with me, and I will pay thee all. 30 And he would not: but went and cast him into prison, till he should pay the debt. 31 So when his fellowservants saw what was done, they were very sorry, and came and told unto their lord all that was done. 32 Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me: 33 Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee? 34 And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him.

35 So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.
 
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squint

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Whats that mean?

In the case of non-OSAS sighted ones, they 'usually' reflect their own fears upon other believers, their general non-trust of the security of the Love of God in Christ, and they usually 'totally' exonerate themselves from their measures to others.

Any questions?

s
 
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Albion

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Good answer, squint. I've often wondered about the mindset that wants to believe we are always on the edge of being smited by God, losing our salvation, etc.

Jesus told his followers to trust in him and not to worry. Yet some of us seem to want to worry. It's as though life throws us so many disappointments along the way that we can't quite bring ourselves to trust Jesus or we'll have the rug pulled from under us, just as other things we counted on in life were taken from us. We are willing to trust him to be offering salvation to us, but not to have accomplished the taking away the sins of the world, even though we love to quote that statement.

Perhaps it has something to do with our childhoods, of not ever being entirely in charge of our own lives because there's always a parent or an employer or the government, or chance, having to make the grade in school or on the playing field, or something like that.
 
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squint

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Good answer, squint. I've often wondered about the mindset that wants to believe we are always on the edge of being smited by God, losing our salvation, etc.

Jesus told his followers to trust in him and not to worry. Yet some of us seem to want to worry. It's as though life throws us so many disappointments along the way that we can't quite bring ourselves to trust Jesus or we'll have the rug pulled from under us, just as other things we counted on in life were taken from us. We are willing to trust him to be offering salvation to us, but not to have accomplished the taking away the sins of the world, even though we love to quote that statement.

Perhaps it has something to do with our childhoods, of not ever being entirely in charge of our own lives because there's always a parent or an employer or the government, or chance, having to make the grade in school or on the playing field, or something like that.

I've been to the point where the Love of God in Christ was 'all' I had.

It's not a bad place to be.
And just when one thinks their struggles are over, a far bigger mountain appears on the horizon, much bigger than the one before. So much so that one may even give up HOPE. I've been there too. But God in Christ never left me. And He showed me. I can't deny what I've been shown and what He's shared with me and for me.

Were it not for the very real secure and 'proven to me in reality beyond any doubt' Love of God in Christ, I'd a been outta here a LONG time ago.

Casting doubts and dispersions is Satan's yob, not mine.

s
 
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Standing Up

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you ppl who t hink u can't lose salvation??

Read St Mt 18:23

Couple of questions:

What does your group propose the solution is, once someone who was saved is no longer saved? They confessed Christ, committed a mortal sin, now what should they do? What is a valid group with which they should do it?

Confession to a priest?
Get born again?
Take Mass?
Make a donation?
Confess Christ?
 
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sculleywr

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Someone had to betray the Lord. Maybe God knew Judas, maybe he was chosen because God knew beforehand that Judas would betray the Lord. I'm only speculating though.

In John, it wasn't until the last supper that judas bar Simon was under the devil.
 
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B-74

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In the case of non-OSAS sighted ones, they 'usually' reflect their own fears upon other believers, their general non-trust of the security of the Love of God in Christ, and they usually 'totally' exonerate themselves from their measures to others.

Any questions?

s

A persons motivation doesn't matter and we shouldn't speculate. The scripture is all that matters.
 
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sculleywr

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Couple of questions:

What does your group propose the solution is, once someone who was saved is no longer saved? They confessed Christ, committed a mortal sin, now what should they do? What is a valid group with which they should do it?

Confession to a priest?
Get born again?
Take Mass?
Make a donation?
Confess Christ?

This assumes that there is never reconciliation. I'll leave he exacts about reconciliation in orthodoxy to my orthodox friends, but when excommunicated in the orthodox church, one can always return to the communion of the church through confession, repentance, and humility.
 
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